Are my friends just rubbish?

[WinterHearts]

I'm trying to decide if I expect too much from friends or if they really are a bit rubbish.

I'm 32. My friends are all the same age. 2 are single but have lots of other friends and 2 are married, one with a baby.

I'm single and apart from these few friends and a very very small family (parents, no siblings, grandparent) that's it. They are all who contact me. (when they contact me)

It seems they can go weeks without checking in on me/starting convo via message and for me thats too long. I would like to speak to them every 4-5 days each. I don't do social media so we don't speak on that.

Recently, i've been feeling pretty lonely and getting upset alot about the lack of contact. I messaged two of my friends yesterday saying I was a bit down, the 1 messaged me back offering sympathy, but didn't reply to my following message. (she has a baby, yet i've seen her online since so shes not too busy to reply) The other said she would call me today (but didn't) and this seems to be a regular thing, her saying she will contact me and then doesn't. Yet she does contact me sometimes randomly, usually a week or more later by which point i'm annoyed she didn't keep her word and don't feel like talking anyway (of course I do and don't mention how I feel but :() Meanwhile these two friends are very 'facebooky' and on the rare occations I do log in I see them posting things.

I just feel forgotten and lonely. And I question if these friendships work for me a lot. Its like social media or other people are more important to them than me, yet they have expressed in the past that i'm an important friend to them, so why don't they check in more often knowing i'm alone? I can go days without speaking to anyone other than my Mum! At the same time I know if I fell out with them or distanced, then i'd literally have no one. Just ranting and trying to make sense of it all. :(

I have felt like this at times in my life OP. I'm 38. Can you try to make new friends online or reconnect with old friends via social media? What about starting a new hobby? Gives you something to talk about, occupies your time and may lead to meeting new people. Try not to take it to heart if people aren't in contact as much as you'd like, it really doesn't have to be a rejection of you. Often it's to do with having different expectations/needs and resources. Try to stay positive and be proactive with your time and energy.

You're an important friend to them when they need you to be there for them which I'm sure you are. But of course it needs to work both ways.

Not using SM will not be helping this - we are in a tech age and it will only get worse -but, i don't think you should start using it just to suit your friends and their lack of effort.

I realised my friendships were very much being stoked and flamed by me and I wouldn't hear from them otherwise, so I stopped contacting them and guess what... never heard from them again. As sad as that was, with time I feel happier because I know that the people I do have in my life care about me as much as I do them.

I dont think either you or your friends are wrong, I think it's just different expectations. I have a couple of close friends who live alone, as do I, and I'm usually in touch with them or vice versa about once a week. Even if there's nothing much to say, it's good to know that they are still ok. Then I have another friend who lives alone and speaks to one of her friends for at least 30 minutes a day. They both need that level of contact, but it would drive me mad after a while.

Its unfortunate that you have discovered now that your friends dont really meet your needs in a pandemic and there are probably few opportunities to change that. Could you try and find some online groups that interest you? It wont give you instant friendships but I've found that the busier you are, the less time you have to ruminate about the things that arent going well in life.

I don’t think they’re rubbish, no. They sound pretty normal.
I think you pin a lot on contact from them because you’re on your own. This is completely understandable as we need human contact and to feel like someone cares about us...but sadly in the day to day, it’s not always easy to find.
Our friendship dynamics often change as we grow, have other obligations, a significant other, family stuff and work. The friendships that were all encompassing when we were young become a side show when our time is no longer our own.
Unless your friends live in your street and you see them regularly in person, a how-are-you check in every four to five days just isn’t going to happen. Life gets in the way, we get tired, have good intentions, get disrupted, just can’t face it after the day we’ve had, there’s a to-do list as long as my arm. We sometimes forget about our friends too.
It’s true to say that the demands of modern life don’t make nourishing friendships easy.

I'm a lot older than you and I know I probably saw my close friends a lot more then I do now when I was your age. We had to make phone calls (to landlines), trying to guess when they might be in and available, though, so it wouldn't have been a case of every few days for each of them. We met up more regularly but there wasn't a pandemic back then.

Now I'm working, going into work 2 to 3 days a week and wfh on other days. I have a DH, and two teens with issues that need dealing with, one where I need to check on their school work. I'm tired after work and like to chill out on social media or by watching tv. I'd be stressed if I needed to call someone all the time. Not because I don't value them but because I haven't much to give and frankly, there isn't much of interest to talk about...covid...wfh...nothing to do and nowhere much to go...

Plus I try to exercise most days - sometimes in the rain / dark as I want to keep up my fitness. And get to sleep at a reasonable time.

I don't even speak to one friend every week, but I am in WhatsApp groups where it is easy to engage or ignore as the feeling takes me. I don't even phone my dad every week - he talks for hours, usually about the same things and I find it a strain at times as he rarely listens to what I say. (He has other children, not just me)

People are busy / stressed / depressed. Your friends may even envy your life for being uncomplicated. They won't guess how you are feeling if you don't tell them, but if you do, they might feel they can't cope with that either. My teens have up and down mental health and when one is feeling down, it is very stressful for me.

I don't think your friends are rubbish, just living their lives. I do think you expect too much. I'd far rather meet up with someone than talk to them on the phone and it's hard to do that at the moment. (And I absolutely hate being phoned out of the blue.)

Long term you probably should broaden your social group. People have far less available time for friends as they pair up and have families. Look for new interests and things you can get involved in. Use social media- interactions on there are fleeting and shallow mainly, but you can also get emotional support from the right people.

Let's be friends OP!

In the first lockdown I was really good at keeping in touch with friends, particularly a couple who I thought might be struggling for various reasons.

This lockdown.... I just can't be arsed. It's all too depressing. There's nothing to talk about as we haven't been doing anything. I just want to hunker down and not talk to anyone outside my household until spring.

Sorry OP, I'm sure it's nothing personal but I wonder if your friends are finding the same?

In my experience friends don't constantly check on you and they may not realise you need that regular contact with them. I guess if you want contact every 4-5 days you need to initiate it. I can see that you don't really want to spend more time on social media, and indeed it isn't for everyone, but for me Facebook is by far the easiest way to maintain a social network (even light touch), particularly at the moment when we're not seeing people.

@Highfalutinlootin

Hi OP, I am sympathetic to your situation. I tend to prefer closer, more intense relationships, and it sounds like you do too. I tend to find friendships where we go to dinner once every 3 months or only see each other at parties pretty unsatisfying, and like you, if I feel I like someone and I've made an effort to deepen the interaction and they haven't returned this effort, it can be pretty upsetting.

In this last few years I've grown to recognize a couple of things. First, many people simply don't want deep or intense relationships. They might get that emotional need meet entirely by family, a partner, or even other friends who aren't you. Second, unfortunately it's pretty common to have a mismatch of needs. It doesn't mean your friends don't like you. It just means they don't like you quite as much as you like them, or perhaps their needs are different like I mentioned above.

Only you can decide whether having these unsatisfying relationships is worth it to you. For me, I've kept most of my friendships for what they are and accepted the limitations. I've ended a few others where I felt the mismatch was large and it was affecting my self esteem, even if I still really liked the other person. I suggest you reevaluate each of these relationships and see if you can keep the good.

I also suggest you invest in those who invest in you. Some of my longest and must fulfilling relationships have come from paying more attention to those who I noticed were really capable of and interested in reciprocation, even if they weren't initially the people I thought I liked best or was closest to.

You're not alone in feeling this way, OP. Adult friendships are hard.

I wanted to say something like this, but high put it much more eloquently than I could.

I really value intense, close friendships which become closer to sibling-type relationships over time. I have what I think is quite a full life - DH, young child, busy job - but if a friend is important to me I think about them a lot and want quite close contact. I really do want a text saying "Crap day here, house looks like a bombsite, how are things there?" or whatever. I get frustrated and hurt when that isn't reciprocated. It's very difficult to navigate.

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. It's a difficult, isolating time for so many people and I expect that has brought some of these issues to the surface or exacerbated them.

I’m not a social media bod by any stretch. I find it narcissistic, anxiety inducing, confidence crushing and overly compelling. I do use Facebook though because without it, I would lose touch with the wider world entirely. That’s how people communicate these days, like it or not (and I don’t).

@EssentialHummus I haven't had a close, female "best friend" your relationship like the one you describe since I was about 15, and I miss it. It really does hurt when I find someone I like and want to try to form that bond with but it's obvious they just aren't interested. It feels a bit like dating!

Anyway cheers to those of us who are probably a bit too intense. May we all someday find the friend who wants to text about laundry.

I’m a bit baffled by how commonly people complaining about what they perceive to be the inadequate behaviour of their friends on here use the term ‘check in’, and appear to have strong and inflexible views on how frequently good friends should ‘check in’.

OP, I’m not unsympathetic, as it’s a difficult time all round, but listen to the way you’re talking. You’re presenting yourself as some kind of charity case who needs to be ‘checked in on’ because you’re single and have few friends, and you’re quite aggrieved when your friends are online but haven’t replied to your messages within your timescale, and feel generally that they’re being inadequate to your needs, which are for far more contact than they’re up for/able to give.

Is that really how you see it? Do you think of yourself as their ‘responsibility’? Do you think it’s that appealing even to good friends to think there’s a reproachful someone sighing at their response times, messaging them about being down and tracking their social media usage because they ‘should’ be responding to you?

And I think everyone is falling out of regular contact at the moment, as no one has anything to talk about — I haven’t spoken to my best friend in three weeks.

Agree with everyone saying group WhatsApp - best way to be in constant contact but low pressure for everyone, especially those withDC. Since I had children it's been hard to meet (pre covid) or have screen chats more than once a month or so, but it's possible to keep in touch regularly on WhatsApp and know what's going on in everyone's lives

Yes I agree, group WhatsApp is the way forward.

I’m not sure if group WhatsApp will help tbh - if op is after a particular kind of chat/connection then a group chat might not facilitate it.

It’s very much like dating high, I agree!

As in, probably wouldn’t hurt to try but it’s not a cure-all.

I think a WhatsApp group depends on whether the friends already know each other and / or have common interests. If a friend of mine added me to a WhatsApp group with people I didn't know, I dont think I'd contribute much. Its different if you are all work colleagues, have children at the same school, live in the same street, etc, but I dont understand why a WhatsApp group is seen by so many as being the easy solution to ops problem.

I think some people are being harsh here. OP, I'm an 'instigator' with my friends too. I tend to be the one who starts message chats, I suggest group WhatsApp calls, I ask local friends if they want to go for walks. At first this bothered me, but then I realised that I just NEED that more than them. They're always very happy to message/chat/walk, they just don't think to suggest it. (This is with different people by the way, so i think broadening your friendship group will help.) You sound like me in that you need company. Some people don't! I know someone who honestly has no friends, and she's perfectly happy with just being on her own. Perhaps just accept this is who you are, and take the focus off what your friends are doing, and just enjoy the contact you have with them x

Woke up to a lot of new messages on this thread so I have read through each one - thanks by the way. And will add my thoughts here -

1.) No I won't be making a group Whatsapp. My friends don't know each other and I don't intend to introduce them. I have made the mistake of doing that before to be kind and then when I fell out with one of the friends, they began being ott friendly with another friend (although they were just acquaintances through me) and it was just awkward for me. Still goes on to this day. (But thats another story)

2.) I am part of a Whatsapp group made up of old colleagues. We all worked together and were made redundant at the same time. Its active about every few weeks, I do contribute to the group, but wouldn't consider any of them 'friends' because we don't speak on a individual basis.

3.) I seem to find it hard to make friends and always have. All though my life i've only ever had a few close friends at a time. I prefer close friendships but I agree if I had more of these i'd feel much better. However, whenever i've tried to become more friendly with people, they just don't seem to have mutual interest in being friends so I just forget it. I feel like I do the right things, ask about their lives, be approachable etc.

4.) All 4 of these friends, have had times where they haven't been rubbish at all and we have chatted all the time. So when its just radio silence, knowing how we used to chat a lot more, it upsets me. I get things are different right now, but I sense from SM that they are chatting on this level to others and i'm just forgotten about.

5.) Friend who tells me she will call and then doesn't. She had been a good friend to me in the past. But over the last few years goes through fazes of contact where she will call me ALL the time. For example, for a few weeks she might be calling me every single day, multiple times (too much) but then will go weeks and weeks without contacting me atall? Its confusing and frustrating.

Someone asked if I had cousins. Unfortunately I don't. My parents were only children. So very very small family. Literally only the parents and a grandparent.

OP have you ever explored how being an only child and grandchild impacts on your friendships? I come from a similarly small family, and I can list several ways it has affected my personality. One of those is that I want really close friendships, I think because I grew up with quite intense, but also unconditional, interactions with my parents and none of the rough and tumble falling out that you might get with siblings or cousins. I now consciously monitor myself, particularly as I've got older and friends have got partners / families, to stop myself being too clingy / full on. I'm not saying that you are the same, but it might be an underlying reason for your wish to have someone check up on you.

I am one of those friends and sometimes it is just a personality style thing. I am an introvert and happy with my own company. I have some very good friend who I have had for 40 plus years but they all know that if they do not contact me, we will go for months without talking. I just don't miss them but I do genuinely love spending time with them when they initiate. I have other friends who are as bad as me and we may only talk once or twice a year but I would consider them to be amongst my closest friends.

I don't think your friends are rubbish, just busy that's all. I've 3 very close friends and we can go through phases of speaking all of the time, to speaking maybe once or twice every two weeks. Although we are on social media so we might still in between times tag each other in an interesting post we might think the other will like, etc.

Also important to note that just because they're active on SM doesn't mean they're not busy IRL. Sometimes a quick post on SM, tagging in a post/comment thread/leaving a comment on a photo, or whatever it may be, is just easier than having a full blown message conversation or phonecall. It's usually something light and quick when I think of them/they think of me but we don't have time or the mental energy for a big chat.

I know you don't have SM and wouldn't usually advocate for it to be honest, but if you're feeling left out then it could be worth getting it so you still have that "touching base" contact during quiet periods. It isn't the same as a big conversation but it might help you feel less cut off from them.

I love my friends to pieces but wouldn't expect them to check in with me really regularly - I don't think they'd like it either. Sometimes I'm not even busy but I feel tired, and just need some time to sit and recharge my batteries.

It won't be anything personal against you, OP.

Tbh, if you were on here saying social media makes me feel lonelier/left out as you've mentioned, people would be telling you to stop using it and how rubbish it is, etc. You have stopped using it, and people are telling you to start!

I think try to give your friends the benefit of the doubt, we're all going through stuff.

Maybe try to arrange something like a zoom call where you watch something on TV or play a game/do a quiz or workout together, instead of fixing phone chats, as there's not a lot going on to discuss?