Confused; Casual bf wants to have a baby with me

[gaijinetal]

I should make it clear; I'm not confused about whether to have a baby with him (nope), I'm confused about why he wants to.

We're both expats as such, I'm from the UK, he's from a West African country but has been living & working here for several years, my neighbour, his friend (from the same county) introduced us.
He was very keen from the start, I was flattered but cautious and got involved partly because I'm a bit lonely tbh (and he's v attractive ) but saw it as fairly casual. There are things about him that make me think he's not exactly backward inn coming forward with women .. another reason I've seen it as casual.

He recently said he wanted to have a baby with me, which totally surprised me and made me think wtf. We've only been seeing each other for a couple of months roughly. I said very little, but it's been raised again - in a weird sort of jokey way, with his mate/my neighbour while in the car (he jokily his friend to open the door for me because "she's pregnant you know" and his friend played along saying things like "oh, is she, I'll be careful" or words to that effect).

I was not amused and it was obvious so they didn't carry on, buft wtf could this be about?

I'd previously asked him if he had any kids (he's a good bit older than me, he's been sheepish and vague about his age, I'm guessing he's late 30s, I'm early 20s) and he said no. That a previous gf had had a termination but that was it.

At first I thought it might be something to do with being "older" and not having had any kids yet; because I know from doing a placement in the country bordering his that people tend to have kids relatively young, and it's common to meet guys who have several children by his age. That he's somehow putting himself under pressure to catch up and he's gotten carried away. But I'm really mind boggled. I also wondered about visa issues but he apparently has a visa to work here, in a developed, pretty wealthy country so .... ?

It has put me off continuing the relationship tbh, but I didn't want to end it in a kneed jerk reaction. I felt like I was being manipulated/stage managed in that car and I'm dwelling on it.

He’s odd.
You don’t trust him.
Move on.
I’m a bit confused by all the second guessing really.
Get him out of your life.

gaj: Like many people, he's got good features however, if what I suspect re. his reason for raising this laughable pregnancy/baby suggestion is the case; and if he is indeed married, to that older native lady who dropped him off (who he went out of his way to say is his boss's wife) .... I don't fkg like him.
......
Good! Sounds like you've made your mind up and very sensibly too. He is history, the future is yours.

@gaijinetal

Then she's dating him and he's changed her name (not legally, just in usage), think eg Francesca to Frances (she wasn't happy with it) eroding her identity, next thing she's pregnant and well under his thumb.

Have you two fallen out of contact?

Sounds like she could do with some friends to turn to if she needs to.

He sounds like a loony tune.

No we're not in touch any more, it was years ago, but she ditched him when he went to prison. It was quite a scary situation to watch unfolding and we couldn't put all the pieces together at the time, only after with hindsight.

@TwoStepsAhead34

You are incredibly naive!! As soon as you said West Africa, I stopped reading. He can claim residency when he has a kid. And he will be running to the hills when he has that and you won't get any support at all from him! RUN. RUN. RUN. RUN. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

Lots of coded racism in this thread and a hefty dose of outright racism here, which no one seemed offended by. I wish I could say I was surprised by MN.

Also, it took three entire pages for one poster to suggest maybe... talking to this man?

It's certainly bizarre but what on earth is stopping the OP from asking him why on earth he thinks she'd want to have a baby with a casual fling? And I'd probably call that fling to a halt too.

But I'd also probably assume it was a misconceived joke as opposed to 99% of MN going "Africans! Visas!" over and over again.

Leaving aside visa/residency issues, some men just think it’s insanely flattering to declare to women that they’d like to have a baby with them. I remember getting it once years ago from a much older American living in Ireland — we had just seen one another for a drink about twice, and hadn’t even slept together (and didn’t, in the event).

I think he thought it made him seem powerful and elemental and would make me feel all honoured and earth-mother-ish.

I said ‘Eww’ and deleted his number.

Its also worth remembering that a child to you (or any woman) is a huge commitment - it affects everything your body, your heath, your time, your earning potential. It should also be a huge commitment for men and if they are decent they will see it as such. However, frankly, if a man doesnt want it to be a huge commitment it isn't and there are no laws in this country or many others which will compel him to treat it as such. So he may well just want you to get pregnant because it would be "nice" for him. Run far far away.

Mention marriage to him and watch him run for the hills.

One more thing about FWB type arrangements.
No judgement from me. I can see why if you like someone and like sex but dont want to commit it SHOULD make sense to have that sort of relationship. After all, men are happy to have no-strings attached sex, and they get little judgement and don't feel bad about themselves. Women should be able to do the same thing. Except that very often men will have no judgement towards other men who are promiscuous and will be happy to be sleep around themselves but will be hugely judgemental of women that engage in casual sex. I am not bothered about the opinion of men like that generally, but the problem with getting into FWB situations is you are then sleeping with someone who thinks you are a whore for sleeping with them even though they are sleeping with you. They see sex/relationships as a zero sum game that they "win" and you "lose" by sleeping with them. You don't want to be in a situation like that because its just icky and thats why I dont do FWB anymore.
And, by the way, its not just West African men that are like that. They are everywhere. And while its not all men with that attitude there is ironically a huge cross over with the type of men who look for FWB/casual sex.

Probably already got 15 kids and as many "wives" scattered over the globe , run whilst you can

Called him and asked him straight of he's married.

He said "yes, but it was only for a visa" etc etc.

While I absorbed that (I didn't even bother asking if his wife is fully aware of that) he moved onto general bullshit/chat and I put the phone down on him.

He pursued me like nobody's business, he took me to a house he said he shared with a friend (another guy from their country, who knows if he even lives there part-time or at all, he's been at my apartment late hours quite a lot (he did work nights though so that must be how he covers it with his wife - presuming they're still together. He'll just lie if I ask about that anyway. Wonder if he retains residence if they separate or divorce).

He's also asked and would've gone ahead with getting me pregnant if I was idiotic enough to go for something like that or not to be careful with contraception .. while married to this woman, and lying by omission about it; I can say we're unlikely to be in contact again.

But I'd also probably assume it was a misconceived joke as opposed to 99% of MN going "Africans! Visas!" over and over again.

See above.

You'd rather call "racism" than admit the self evident fact that people from developing countries, with west Africa being notorious for it, sometimes seek residence in developed countries through marriage etc. You'd not give a young woman realistic advice because of this.

(I should point that medical staff, long-term students et are the exception to the above - before racism is called again)

on earth is stopping the OP from asking him why on earth he thinks she'd want to have a baby with a casual fling?

Fwiw I don't know that he thought I thought it was a casual fling. He pursued me very enthusiastically from.tbe start, he was around pretty much every day (though I thought he called while visiting his friend some of the time), he was on the phone every day etc. I think he thought he'd done enough to make stupid lil me think he was v keen and he was my boyfriend, but presumably he's gotten impatient and jumped the gun on the baby suggestion.
He presumably also thought all women want babies and I'd be keen.

We've not had a discussion about where the relationship was going or even exclusivity. I think now he thought I saw it as a "real" relationship; even while he was too indiscrete to stop dropping things into conversation that made me think he's recently been (and still is) involved with other women.

Come to think of it he got annoyed a while ago when I said I'd gone out and played pool with another ex pat I met, and that the guy had gotten the wrong end of the stick and asked me back to his/expected the outing to end up in bed; that I'd obviously said nope and gone home (I told him Id just said I thought we were just being social, that had not been in the cards) and he said "why didn't you tell you have a boyfriend?!". I was taken aback and said "because I think men should be able to take a no because it's a no, I shouldn't have to say "I have a bf" like if I didn't i'd automatically go along with sex with any man who presumes it's on the cards".

but the problem with getting into FWB situations is you are then sleeping with someone who thinks you are a whore for sleeping with them even though they are sleeping with you. They see sex/relationships as a zero sum game that they "win" and you "lose" by sleeping with them. You don't want to be in a situation like that because its just icky and thats why I dont do FWB anymore.

Fair point.

I was a bit lonely, bored, horny (!), on the rebound from a disappointing romantic situation etc and I was a late starter and feel like I've missed out on much of the pulling that other people did at uni and it was a fun, exciting thing with an attractive guy who was chasing me. Pity I can't do that without being regarded as a slapper, stupid, and a visa route but ...

I also I initially got friendly with my neighbour/his friend who stopped me in the street outside our apartments because I had good associations/warmth/nostalgia for people from their home region due to doing a voluntary placement and travelling there; nice that they just see me as a resource for sex and a visa (and a baby oven). I know many other women here from the UK would have said the minimum, been discouraging and not gotten friendly, clearly I should be more like them.

she ditched him when he went to prison.

It must have been frustrating and worrying for her friends and family.

Well at least I can say this guy isn't a jail bird, just married (and a visa hunter by the looks of it).

OP don't put this on yourself, thinking you shouldn't have had fun when it suited you and he was a more than willing participant. You couldn't have known he would go weird. That's what I would see it as rather than feeling certain he just wanted to take advantage, he sounds odd.

always trust your gut on things like this, its never wrong :)

@Yousexybugger

OP don't put this on yourself, thinking you shouldn't have had fun when it suited you and he was a more than willing participant. You couldn't have known he would go weird. That's what I would see it as rather than feeling certain he just wanted to take advantage, he sounds odd.

Considering everything, I think (while he wasn't exactly averse to having sex with a not unattractive willing young woman) I think more and more that he saw me as a UK visa opportunity falling into his lap through his mate/my neighbour's "friendship" with me; and that's why he was so super keen. Something was OTT about it from.the beginning but I explained it to myself as novelty or reverse racism or "conquest excitement".

I know now he has full residence here through his wife, and it would have confused me as to why he'd be interested in a potential UK visa; if I hadn't encountered a man from his home region there who already had a UK visa (originally through marriage I think, I'm not sure) but who was in the process of applying for a Canadian visa through, surprise surprise, a Canadian wife. He told me she was "a good friend doing him a favour" but even then I was like , not sure I believe that. He was of the opinion that the UK was racist and it was too hard for a black man to build up a business, be an entrepreneur etc. and that was why he'd failed to become well heeled after ten years living there (well, he went back and forth between the UK and home country). It made me wonder if some emigrants tend to think the other place/next place is the right one if their expectations aren't met.

It would fit with this guy's circumstances here; he's had to take a government/unemployment bureau factory job because he wasn't making enough money out of his self employment. He seems like he wants to appear flashy and we'll off but isn't really. To be fair this can be an insular, racist, very regimented, conservative country and he'd not be wrong to think it might not be ideal for him to achieve the sort of life he might aspire to.

That and the baby thing, and the weird "hunting" of me at the start ... I'm increasingly convinced it was nationality/visa related.

I don't know if he lives with his wife, but I don't think I should get involved.

He's probably shitting himself about me trying to contact her, though looking back he's been very careful not to give me traceable contact details. Everything's been via his mobile. He may not even have given me real names; they have several different types of names in their culture and he could use different ones.

It's probably best left alone anyway. These guys usually trio themselves up one way or another. He sounds like he's been with numerous local/native girls and they'd be in a much better position to track down and tell his wife.

Not that it matters , but I wonder if his wife is considerably older than him and not able to give him a child which then would become ' the cherry on top of the cake ' as in an extra way to keep visa when marriage goes tits up.

@TreacleHart

Not that it matters , but I wonder if his wife is considerably older than him and not able to give him a child which then would become ' the cherry on top of the cake ' as in an extra way to keep visa when marriage goes tits up.

If it's the lady he went out of his way to tell me is his boss's wife when I saw him dropped off at his friend's apartment; she did look older. However he's apparently been here quite a while, and they could have had children when she was younger.

He would have to have lied to my face about not having any children, but that's seeming increasingly possible.

Yeah, certainly he could have been looking to kill two birds with one stone; visa for UK and child/ren if he really is childless.

But I have my doubts about the latter.

(On that subject he told me his ex in the US had a termination, which he fully encouraged; so unless she was also a non resident with no visa status, why would he have done that, why wouldn't he gave encouraged her to continue the pregnancy so he could try for a US visa?)

There's not much point trying to figure out what is lies and what has happened with a guy like this.

It's actually a relief his mate/my neighbour is moving to Canada; there'll be little chance of seeing him around. He lives some distance away.

Oh, don't feel bad for being in that situation. It is understandable. i just think its stupid because you would think it would be beneficial for men if more women were willing to get into FWB arrangements/or go for casual sex. We get horny too. But they ruin it by being wierdly judgemental of women that sleep with them. And then wonder why, once women learn (normally past about 25), women wont sleep with them. They are ruining it for themselves

On a side note, I know many people from West Africa and many of them are lovely lovely people (just like people everywhere). So don't let it put you of forming friendships especially since you have connections to the place. However, there are users everywhere and learning how to trust your instincts and weed them out early is important (it sounds like your instincts were warning you about him quite early on?) I have also found, generally, friendships with men are much more complicated than friendships with women but when I was younger I would have argued I could be friends with a man as easily as with a women. But it always seems to end in someone trying to use me OR feeling resentful I wouldn't let them.

Oh, don't feel bad for being in that situation. It is understandable. i just think its stupid because you would think it would be beneficial for men if more women were willing to get into FWB arrangements/or go for casual sex. We get horny too. But they ruin it by being wierdly judgemental of women that sleep with them. And then wonder why, once women learn (normally past about 25), women wont sleep with them. They are ruining it for themselves

Funnily enough I felt no judgement from him for getting involved and having sex relatively quickly, and had this petered out without this bizarre baby suggestion, I'd have had no reason to wonder wtaf he thinks of me (and perhaps "Western" women) to actually think I'd consider trying to have a baby with him a couple of months into a relationship, while working abroad.

On a side note, I know many people from West Africa and many of them are lovely lovely people (just like people everywhere). So don't let it put you of forming friendships especially since you have connections to the place. However, there are users everywhere and learning how to trust your instincts and weed them out early is important (it sounds like your instincts were warning you about him quite early on?) I have also found, generally, friendships with men are much more complicated than friendships with women but when I was younger I would have argued I could be friends with a man as easily as with a women. But it always seems to end in someone trying to use me OR feeling resentful I wouldn't let them.

Two good points, you're right.