Are there any decent men out there?

[Choccaholic]

In my 20s I had a very turbulent at times relationship, now I've entered my 30s I miss the high points in that relationship and being so young and carefree.

My big question is at 31, every man in his 30s is single for a BIG reason! From reading posts on here every man seems like a narcissist, controlling abusive, manipulative liar!

As a single parent at 30 I feel like my standards are very very high (maybe even too high) BUT I am not willing to settle.

Can you actually meet a man in his 30s who is single through no fault of his own and is actually a decent human being?

I did! (Although I also met a lot who were single for clear reasons).

@BillMasen I'm clearly talking about my own experiences. This is a woman's site, it's not my job to placate your feelings. I'm sure the folks over on redpill.com don't worry about offending women on there with their sweeping generalisations.

I thought you'd be more upset at the casual use of sexual violence directed towards me, but clearly it's more being offended at poor men being criticised that upsets you most.

[quote annabellacomestotea]@BillMasen I'm clearly talking about my own experiences. This is a woman's site, it's not my job to placate your feelings. I'm sure the folks over on redpill.com don't worry about offending women on there with their sweeping generalisations.

I thought you'd be more upset at the casual use of sexual violence directed towards me, but clearly it's more being offended at poor men being criticised that upsets you most.[/quote]
This is not a woman’s site. I’m as entitled to be here as you are

I’m also entitled to express the view that you generalised and I see that a lot

Never heard of the site you quote. What point are you trying to make?

These posts don't half make for depressing reading. As someone who may need to consider stepping back out there to find someone else to share life's rich pattern with at some stage in the future, I think you have to remember that some men will find themselves 'available' due to no fault of their own. If my circumstances come to that , then I certainly don't want to go though the rest of my life on my own but find someone to share experiences, laugh, love and hopefully find happiness. I just seriously hope that I will be able to differentiate myself from those that feature in the dreadful experiences many seem to have. Yes, we all gather some baggage as we get older, but it doesn't need to define you or prevent you from forging a new life. You have to manage those bags. God I hope it's better than the picture you guys paint.

[quote Techway]@Wibble01, happy to hear your views.

In my experience relationships that last are where both parties are able to compromise and place the family and marriage at the centre of their lives. Women tend to do this because of nature and or societal expectations but it isn't the same for men. It just isn't! Of course not all men are like this, many have these skills/thought processes which is why they are still in relationships but the single ones often don't...or may not even be aware they need these skills (such is society's expectations).

Our local mens rugby team subtlety coaches younger men on relationship skills, not manners or chivalry but the thought process that they need to adopt. It starts with genuine respect for women, sharing domestic chores, prioritising family over their own personal achievements such as hobbies and work, owning up to their issues and learning to apologise.

The thinking was that men often struggle with inter personal relationships so focus on areas where they can be successful and not get negative feedback. However that leads to further issues and ultimately affects men's mental health which we know to be a major issue. The club want to change the outcome for men but it starts with changing patterns of thinking so that aggression/affairs/addictions/mid life crisis are not the coping strategies.

I think if an all male club, that has a very good reputation, sees this then it isn't just "depressing" chatter on MN.[/quote]
I agree with a lot of what you mention in the sense of where it goes wrong for men in relationships.

What I take exception to and I think it came across in your post, at least to an extent (and I see it all the time on here), is that somehow men that are single aren't likely to be decent or worthy. Whereas women in the same position are.

Women are in a far better position now than they've ever been in many ways. Ive dated three women post separation and all ended their relationships. Of the three Ive been told the exs were controlling / abusive etc but there was nothing that ever really got pinpointed / backed it up with any substance. It was more they were unhappy in their relationships and reading between the lines seemed at least equally culpable (in ine case far more so).

I've had a similar picture painted of me and yet my ex was very difficult.

Fine criticise us. I'll own my behaviour and hold my hands up to what I get wrong but in a grown up relationship I expext the other person to do the same.

Sweeping statements abound indeed.

I have never felt entitled nor attempted to talk a women into sex. If they are not interested, I will control myself and wait until an appropriate time and sort myself out, or wait until they are.

I watch porn very sparingly and only amateur material. I find anything with degradation of women abhorrent and a massive turn off. Most of us have grown up with female family members we love and respect and do not have warped views on women and sex.

I agree that easy access to such porn is a problem though, especially to young minds.

They are decent but you have to lower your standards too. They may be under 5'8, overweight less educated than what you'd like etc.

Of course there are.
Relationships end all the time.
Without (intentionally) being mean, I think most men would see being a single mother as a pretty significant negative.
If you genuinely do have "very high standards" you'll have to accept that you won't meet the standards of those men. That's not to say you won't find anyone, but what you're finding is likely a reflection of your circumstances.
Single mothers aren't going to be the first choice of a man looking for a committed relationship.

@grassisjeweled

They are decent but you have to lower your standards too. They may be under 5'8, overweight less educated than what you'd like etc.

Under 5’8” is lower standard?

I am nearly 60 now, dating in real life and online, so this post is me, looking back.

It might help to understand things by looking at it from two points of view OP: the social reality and the individual and personal view.

The social "reality" already referred to by some. By one's 30s, the fact is lots of "relationship" men will be - guess what - in relationships! Though I do think 31 is very young from where I'm standing! Anyway, the pool of men available to "be in" a relationship is, inevitably, getting statistically smaller. There are other social factors mentioned by others that also limit women's choice e.g. the age issue - men seem to be able to date almost any age. Whereas women commonly come on MN to almost apologise if they are 6 years older than their 28 year old boyfriend fgs. (It is of course nice that in public life anyway, there are exceptions - Joan Collins, Julie Burchill, Vivienne Westwood, women full of vigour and talent it must be said who also have a wide social mileau - who marry men much younger than them).

But there are also lots of individual variables, so I don't pay too much heed to all the posters who say they left Bloke A who was horrible and soon met Bloke B who was fantastic. Who these women are and what they want in a relationship may be v different to me. In my own case, I don't think I really wanted children or domesticity when I was young, or even when older, if I was honest. Perhaps I was damaged by some of my childhood which also made me "different" (though this understanding was hidden to me, probably others may have picked up on it). I liked good looks and intelligence in a man (though never interested in status or money) and this made the pool even smaller, lol! Perhaps also on an individual level, there were also other things against me [I could fill in quite a few things here, both positives and negatives] So, what I am trying to say, is there are many variables that may exist that make it more or less likely for you to meet "your match" if that makes sense. Most of them you won't have much control over IMO. Understanding this might also help you.

My only "advice" OP is to live life as fully as you can as a single person first and foremost. Whatever adventures or whatever paths in life you want to take, to take with both hands. I know you are a single parent which, unless you have support, limits things in some ways, much more if you are really on your own. But I really do think that trying too hard to pursue men can end in all kinds of weird scenarios. Keeping a dating profile up long-term might be useful, as you never know who drops by, but I wouldn't bother being too active or too over-excited if you get some male attention from that quarter (IYKWIM). Just take it slow and easy. Someone may turn up, someone may not. Something may happen and something may not. Try to enjoy what you're doing in life and accept and believe that your life has value with or without a man. My life has been hard as a single parent in some ways, but its hard to see what a man would have added, unless a true match had appeared on the scene and he never did.

PS. I didn't find it much different when I had a child and when I didn't.
Unless you have lots of children and a complicated relationship with an ex, I don't see that it should make that much difference myself but maybe I'm kidding myself, but sad if this is true. Maybe such men might think they have to take on some kind of financial or "fatherly" responsibilities, I don't know. But equally some men have no problem with loving other's children.

I think that this page will tend to be in the direction of there not being any decent men out there because people aren't going to start a thread about how great their relationship is. There have been examples of people starting those types of threads and they've been accused of being insensitive.

There are clearly a lot of blokes out there who are not great husbands/partners (to say the least - many of them are total arseholes). There are also decent blokes out there too. How many? Who knows, it's all anecdotal but the examples of shite ones are far more likely to rear their heads on here.

Unfortunately when it comes to dating, it does seem like it is very necessary to sort the wheat from the chaff. That's not always easy as whilst some blokes show their seediness early on (especially with online dating sites it would seem) some are evidently all sweetness and light at first. It's definitely the case that women should be on their guard and Mumsnet is very useful as there are plenty of red flags that people can learn from in terms of experiences of other women.

@CloudBear Thank you so much for your wise words of wisdom and positivity in your reply . I have one child and have a great relationship now with my ex. I am not actively searching for anyone as I've never really been on my own through my adult life (quite sad really!) I am really enjoying being on my own, I have lots of help from my ex and have great family members who help out too.

I suppose I am after reassurance that one day in the future there may be a chance of meeting someone great, and that I wouldn't be too old to have that family experience.

If I didnt have a child I too dont think I would date someone with a child, so I dont blame anyone for having that viewpoint.

Its defintley a game of numbers and chance thrown in with a little luck by the sounds of things from these messages.

Interesting IsIt. Because it makes me think a "decent bloke" is a basically uninspiring aim. I am sure thats not what you meant, but it sounds about as romantic as a bowl of cat food .

There are lovely guys out there , who are in their 30’s, who are single through no fault of their own
You openly state you have very little free time , and the little time you have you want to invest in yourself , and you are about to start a new project at work which will leave you even less time . In top of that you state your standards are very very high . Nothing wrong with any of that , but any lovely guy is going to get snapped up pretty fast , and will be looking for someone who has the time and desire to be fully invested in a relationship. You def shouldn’t be prepared to settle , but any guy worth having will most likely feel the same way .

@Wibble01,

that somehow men that are single aren't likely to be decent or worthy. Whereas women in the same position are

I don't think women are inherently decent but that society allows men to behave badly, poor behaviour is seen as laddish rather than offensive. I'm raising boys and try to maintain their behaviour against the pressures that exist for them to conform. Women generally remain in bad relationships if they have children whereas that is not the case (generally) for many men.

I met a man who was slightly below average height.. wouldn't have been much of an issue for me but then he let me know that I would never been able to wear heels as I would be taller than him and he objected to this. He just thought this was acceptable and he was unwilling to compromise. If I was happy to date a shorter man, why wasn't he happy to date a taller woman?

Another man was tall, over 6ft and he ruled out any woman below 5ft 6in as he said it hurt his neck. Is that acceptable? I think so. Reduces his dating pool but that's his choice.

Many men don't see controlling behaviour..they just see believe they do things the right way so should be followed. Ex H would never believe he is controlling but myself and children know that you can't say No to him.. he thinks his way is the best so has to be followed.

I actually think its not a bad age at all. Lots of people are coming out of badly advised first love marraiges at that age. They often arnt bad people, they just rushed into marraige or LTRs with unsuitable people.

Try dating in your 40's. Its dire sad I wish I was a lesbian. Lots of awesome ladies out there , not a single awesome bloke
Sigh

Nope, it really isn't the homo-utopia you imagine. Just as many dire women in OLD as there are men, sadly.

Yeah I think what a lot of people forget about being gay is that your choice is already naturally massively limited.

—every woman who is single in her 30s is single for a BIG reason—

Seriously, don’t judge society by what you read on mumsnet. This place is crawling with gaslighting nutters.

There are plenty of decent men out there, finding them and being compatible with them is a matter of luck.

Unfortunately, luck finds it difficult to do its job when you have young kids, work and not much success at securing regular babysitting.

I hate the assumption that just because someone is single in their 30s or older there's something wrong with them. Some people prefer to be single than get involved with the wrong type of person at the wrong time.

I am mid40s and have not been married or had kids. Last year I met a wonderful man through Bumble who also has never married or had kids. Six months on from the start of our real relationship we are very happy and planning our future together.

Also I don't believe in the numbers game theory people sometimes talk about. I met very few men in comparison to some others keeping focused on what were the important qualities to me with flexibility as well. I didn't have a long wish list. Who he is as a person was far more important to me than anything else. Equally I didn't waste time talking to men who were wrong for me.

@BillMasen

There are as many decent men out there as there are decent women. Bloody sexist claptrap on here sometimes.

Maybe above a certain age we all have baggage, kids, get a bit used to doing things our own way. It just really annoys me to see “all men are awful” being trotted out when I know I’m not and my friends are not.

This is a women's forum. Anyone with eyes can see that there are general differences in what men and women appreciate in a partner and how they tend to want to spend their free time. A topic like this is just those differences writ large. I'm sure there's a forum of middle-aged British men somewhere, similarly lamenting the expectations of middle-aged women Vs their perceived value in a relationship, not sure where to find it though.

Decent single men? No, there aren't.

My husband is amazing. He was still on the market because he's five foot five.