Are there any decent men out there?

[Choccaholic]

In my 20s I had a very turbulent at times relationship, now I've entered my 30s I miss the high points in that relationship and being so young and carefree.

My big question is at 31, every man in his 30s is single for a BIG reason! From reading posts on here every man seems like a narcissist, controlling abusive, manipulative liar!

As a single parent at 30 I feel like my standards are very very high (maybe even too high) BUT I am not willing to settle.

Can you actually meet a man in his 30s who is single through no fault of his own and is actually a decent human being?

My view is that there are lots of great people out there, luck plays a huge part in your paths crossing.

My thoughts on settle versus compromise are quite simplistic; for me, settle would be not fancying the person in the slightest but knowing that they have qualities that are important to me. Compromise would be accepting that circumstances are not in our favour, for example, long distance or (say) my weekend where my son is with his dad might be his weekend with his children. Compromise is the workaround stuff. I would go for compromise every time, settle (my definition of it), isn’t for me.

There are very few decent available men as most good men make relationships work so are not single.

My assessment is that men in our society are enabled to be selfish and entitled which leads to behaviours such as afairs, excessive hobbies, financial, emotional or even physical abuse to maintain power. Add to this emotional immaturity, addictions and lack of domestic skills you can see why women struggle to find "good" men.

Women are now less tolerant to these behaviours which is why more relationships break up. However men rarely change behaviour following a break up, they just polish up their charm, blame the ex and seek out another unsuspecting woman. There are still enough of us around to fall for it so the cycle continues.

Until there is a deep change in the entitlement thinking of young men (and I'm raising boys so see it first hand) we will not get the shift that is needed to have a sufficent pool of decent men for all women.

Another challenge we face is that decent men have options for women from a wider age range (as women tend to date closer to their own age) therefore a good man will seek single women from early 20's/mid 30s. This age gap widens as men get older.. many will not date around their age, instead look for women who are 10-20 years younger so it does make it more difficult as women age. It's why by the time women are in their 30s they find the amount of good men available is really low. It isn't perception or pessimism, it's reality.

@Techway I think your explanation is a great way of explaining it. Particularly where you mention about men having a wider age range to select from.

I also agree with men being able to indulge in excessive hobbies, distasteful behaviour ect.

It's a bit depressing when you think about it. The older I get the more I completely understand why women settle to have children.

OP, it's good to read that you have standards. Do not let them drop.

I am a man in my late 30's who spent a good chunk of them single. I consider myself a decent catch but don't we all.

The reasons? Many.
Limited time from work. I enjoyed freedom and wasn't ready to settle. I am quite choosy with partners and was willing to wait until I found a good match. I am happy in own company and don't suffer from loneliness easily. I wasn't pursuing relentlessly, it was done in fits and starts.

At one stage I put in a good effort to find someone. I mainly went the online dating route due to time constraints.
I met many women. Good and bad experiences, but I learnt a lot about people and myself.
Paradoxically, I met my GF during a time of little weight or great effort being placed on dating. I don't think that was a coincidence...

Online dating is certainly not all rosy from a man's end either, but in a different way.

It is a numbers game nothing more or less.

Good luck!

@Ianar It is great to hear a man's viewpoint here. Good on you also for enjoying your years of being single, I bet you were able to find out lots about yourself during that time too!

Can I ask whether you have children? Did you find when dating that women in their 30s had children?

Great post thank you for the insight

@Choccaholic, women in the past HAD to tolerate men's behaviour. You married, dedicated your life to children and men were head of the family so the power inbalance was established. It will take generations to erode this thinking.

There is slightly less stigma to being a single mum but it's relatively recent and still not fully accepted. I'm not sure women are inherently better than men but women "behave" themselves more perhaps due to fears of being judged and lack of opportunity due to caring responsibilities.

A 40 year old man will look at an age range from 20's to mid 40s however many 50 year olds will do the same! Given men die earlier and generally age badly it makes no sense however men believe they have higher dating value even when they are older (possibility due to money but mostly delusional thinking). I work in a male dominant industry and had older men discuss how they turn heads of 20 somethings..yep, sure.

There are good men (I have brothers and BILs who are not perfect but definitely good enough) Those available that are decent are very rare. I thought I had found one, he had previously married young so was single because it was "justified" but it took a good few years until I could see why he was available.

@Techway

There are very few decent available men as most good men make relationships work so are not single.

My assessment is that men in our society are enabled to be selfish and entitled which leads to behaviours such as afairs, excessive hobbies, financial, emotional or even physical abuse to maintain power. Add to this emotional immaturity, addictions and lack of domestic skills you can see why women struggle to find "good" men.

Women are now less tolerant to these behaviours which is why more relationships break up. However men rarely change behaviour following a break up, they just polish up their charm, blame the ex and seek out another unsuspecting woman. There are still enough of us around to fall for it so the cycle continues.

Until there is a deep change in the entitlement thinking of young men (and I'm raising boys so see it first hand) we will not get the shift that is needed to have a sufficent pool of decent men for all women.

Another challenge we face is that decent men have options for women from a wider age range (as women tend to date closer to their own age) therefore a good man will seek single women from early 20's/mid 30s. This age gap widens as men get older.. many will not date around their age, instead look for women who are 10-20 years younger so it does make it more difficult as women age. It's why by the time women are in their 30s they find the amount of good men available is really low. It isn't perception or pessimism, it's reality.

Pretty standard type of comment for this place.

I've dated women since separating and in each case there's underlying issues under the surface.

@Techway I think I remember seeing a chart of men's dating age preferences. Even in their 50s, their ideal age range was something like 20-22 years old. After around 22, you could see a drop off because clearly by 23 years old were're considered crones, especially by porno standards. Depressing. When I was young however, I was interested in men who were also in their 20s and would have been suspicious of the motives of men a decade older than me.

@EarthSight That's quite scary with men in their 50s isnt it! Yeah in my last relationship he was 10 years older (40) and he said he was looking for someone around the 28-30 mark but hes had marriage and 2 kids so shes got to not want any kids or anything because hes already been there.

@Choccaholic I wouldn't change my single years. If anything, there are other things I would have liked to have "gotten out my system" whilst single, but they may have never came, and my GF is more than worth the sacrifice.

I do not have children, neither does my GF. However, I dated women with children and it was far from a deal-breaker. It was always going to be about the person themselves. A man in his 30's or older would be limiting potential partners by a large amount if looking to meet online.

My GF went through much of the online dating shithousery I've read about, been told of by my sister and other women, and experienced myself. She was very apathetic about it just before us meeting. In fact, she took a week to respond to my first message as she hadn't seen it due to actively avoiding the app. She said she had one quick last look and was then taking a break from dating for the foreseeable. I'm very glad she did! It shows the margins can be small.

Try dating in your 40's. Its dire :( I wish I was a lesbian. Lots of awesome ladies out there , not a single awesome bloke
Sigh

There are as many decent men out there as there are decent women. Bloody sexist claptrap on here sometimes.

Maybe above a certain age we all have baggage, kids, get a bit used to doing things our own way. It just really annoys me to see “all men are awful” being trotted out when I know I’m not and my friends are not.

The more I read the relationship forum on here the more I am put off men

As a pp said, it's really not the best indicator. It's a selection of the worst of humanity - no-one starts a thread asking for advice on how to handle their loving, caring relationship with a wonderful man.

The way I looked at it when I was single in my 30s was that there was nothing much wrong with me, so there was no reason why the same might apply for a single man. I grew to really resent the assumption that there was something wrong with me or anyone else single over the age of 30.

I met someone great when we were both in our 40s. I think he had been overlooked by other women for a few reasons - he's a little shorter than average. He takes time to get to know and can be quite reserved at first. He's not hugely ambitious, although he has a good job and regular income. He's funny, intelligent, kind and generous though. So I made no compromises in his fundamental qualities, but I didn't have list of material wants.

@Wibble01, happy to hear your views.

In my experience relationships that last are where both parties are able to compromise and place the family and marriage at the centre of their lives. Women tend to do this because of nature and or societal expectations but it isn't the same for men. It just isn't! Of course not all men are like this, many have these skills/thought processes which is why they are still in relationships but the single ones often don't...or may not even be aware they need these skills (such is society's expectations).

Our local mens rugby team subtlety coaches younger men on relationship skills, not manners or chivalry but the thought process that they need to adopt. It starts with genuine respect for women, sharing domestic chores, prioritising family over their own personal achievements such as hobbies and work, owning up to their issues and learning to apologise.

The thinking was that men often struggle with inter personal relationships so focus on areas where they can be successful and not get negative feedback. However that leads to further issues and ultimately affects men's mental health which we know to be a major issue. The club want to change the outcome for men but it starts with changing patterns of thinking so that aggression/affairs/addictions/mid life crisis are not the coping strategies.

I think if an all male club, that has a very good reputation, sees this then it isn't just "depressing" chatter on MN.

These boards aren't representative of real life - as a PP poster said, no-one in great relationships bother to post on here stating as such.

I'd say there are just as many good men out there as there are good women. I think the fact you have children will limit you pool of potential partners though. I personally wouldn't choose to date a man who has kids (but maybe I'm being too picky at 38! ).

@BertramLacey I had exactly the same thought process to it, even after negative experiences. If I was decent and normal then they'd be woman who were the same. With the numbers involved there simply had to be.

I also sound similar to your husband. I am in no doubt that my below average height put me at a large disadvantage in the online world especially. I didn't care.

I always tried to have a positive outlook on online dating and be grateful for it. It opens your pool of suitable potential partners dramatically if used correctly.

I think there are but even the decent men I've met (kind and loyal) have tended to be lazy, eat junk food and watch TV all day. I've only met my ideal counterpart in women and unfortunately I'm not sexually attracted to women.

I think it's not talked about enough how much porn and its accessibility has utterly warped men. When I was single, the number of men who felt comfortable to say some variation of, 'I bet you'd love to get choked out' disgusted me...clearly something they've gotten from porn, that men are entitled to violent sex.

I haven't found any. Maintain your standards, it's the only way.

@annabellacomestotea

I think it's not talked about enough how much porn and its accessibility has utterly warped men. When I was single, the number of men who felt comfortable to say some variation of, 'I bet you'd love to get choked out' disgusted me...clearly something they've gotten from porn, that men are entitled to violent sex.

Look, I know this is boring and blah blah blah but can you avoid the sweeping “men” and acknowledge it’s some, not all

Unless you actually think it’s all

[quote Ianar]@BertramLacey I had exactly the same thought process to it, even after negative experiences. If I was decent and normal then they'd be woman who were the same. With the numbers involved there simply had to be.

I also sound similar to your husband. I am in no doubt that my below average height put me at a large disadvantage in the online world especially. I didn't care.

I always tried to have a positive outlook on online dating and be grateful for it. It opens your pool of suitable potential partners dramatically if used correctly.[/quote]
I too am a bit on the short side at 5’6”

Maybe that’s the massive problem we have...

Men feel entitled to sex IME. Doesn't matter if you're in the mood or not you're just a vessel for their convenience.

Jesus, just read that back and realised how bitter that sounds.

Also I agree with the poster who mentioned men tend to date younger than women do. Of course we can reverse this and say women tend to date older than men do - I think we all had friends when we were in our 20s who seemed to only go for guys in their 30s. Personally I still like the 25 year olds