Should I throw him out?

[Layla17]

I started a thread a few weeks ago when my dp said he was going to leave me. You were all a great help. To cut a long story shortish he said he loves me but is not in love wth me and wants space. He has had an friendship with another girl at work and she is a born again christian and they have discussed being together but nothing has happened and they have apparently agreed that they it would not work and he has stopped contacting her for my sake.
We have dc's aged 3 (just) and 1. We have just come back from a week's holiday with my family and had a great time. He was like a different person and we had fun and agreed we had lost each other and would work to try to get it back. When we got back home on Sunday it all went wrong again. I really do think he is depressed. We have had a hard year with our daughter's problems at birth and ongoing health issues and having moved house last month.
Last night we went to Relate and he said some hurtful things about me having manipulated him and made him give up a job in the theatre 6 years ago! and forced him to ask me to marry him 3 months ago - I did not do any such thing!!! he also said I have made him abandon a friend who needs him!!!! What about his family!!!
Anyway - I really want to hold it together because I think he is just depressed but cannot take much more and don't know whether I should now ask him to leave.
Any ideas?

If he is depressed would it help to talk to his doctor?
Maybe he does just need space - suggest a trail 'separation' and put a date on it - say 6 months. If he can get his head together in that time and see what he's losing, it might clarify things for you both.

I can understand why you feel hurt and angry at hime for saying those things. I would be really hurt too.

Counselling is hard, its hurtful to start with but if you love each other then you both need to be honest which can also mean being hurtful, if he said those things because thats how he feels you cannot discard it just because you find it hurtful iyswim?

I've been through counselling and though at first it felt we had got further away than ever we stuck with it and both tried really hard because even though we weren't getting along with each other we both knew we wouldnt want to live apart either and wanted to give it all we had before quitting. Keep going to the counselling, learn how to argue constructively, once all bad stuff has been said and dealt with you will find you can start again and deal with arguements/ disagreements in the future without the negative effects.

It's really up to you, if you feel kicking him out would help then do it but if you really love him beware he could run to the other woman meaning you will be pushing them together. If he is willing to work on this I would stick it out tbh.

sounds like he is depressed and is blaming you for the choices he has made, rather than taking repsonsibility.. it is good you are talking and going to relate.. i don;t think yuo should throw him out, reading between the lines, you both want this to work.,

Have you got another Relate appt lined up or was it a one off? It sounds to me as though he may be depressed and that your relationship needs working (hard) on but that it's worth working for. Try not to feel angry or hurt about the things he brought up in the counselling, he's at least trying to explain how he's feeling and even if what he's describing isn't 'true' factually the emotions are real for him. If I were you I would stick with the counselling first and try to avoid actual separation at this point.

Good advice by fleacircus. What he's saying might be both untrue and hurtful but at least he's getting it all out on the table. No doubt you are or will or should be going to say stuff that will be unpleasant for him to hear. I think that's probably at least part of the point of Relate.

Try to give it a few more sessions; things are never going to be solved in one visit. It does sound like you've got something there worth working on and that you both want to give it a go.

I would be concerned that he is having an affair. The "I love you but I'm not in love with you" line is a classic. The signs are all there. Even if he and this woman have not had a physical relationship yet they may be having an emotional affair.
I would strongly advise that you do not ask him to leave. You need to hang in there to show him how much better an option you are than anyone else.
So be as nice as you can to him, support him, be a lovely Mummy too and try not to show him how hurt you are-if he is having an affair he will not want to see any of this at the moment as it will make him feel bad and that is counterproductive at the moment-you want HER to be the one to put the thumbscrews on and be unreasonable-you hold all the cards-you are married to him and you are the mother of his kids. Don't give up yet.

You see, Layla17,he has to persuade himself that you are a bad person(made him marry you etc) because otherwise he will feel bad about his affair. And yes, he is undoubtedly depressed because deep down he knows what an awful situation he is in-please try and rise above all that-don't believe anything he says, his actions are probably more believable at the moment.
Hang in there, it's too early to give up .

Hi Layla, really sorry to hear this - but it's good that the mad BAC girl is out of the way - she sounded lethal.

I would stick with the Relate sessions - what he said is his perception of events, even if they aren't true - he needs to express all the negatives - and so do you - before you can move on. Hopefully your Relate counsellor will be able to guide you well through this. Please don't give up yet.

I'm reading a really good book called 'I Love you but I'm not in love with you' - written by a Relate counsellor. I've been recommending it to everyone, as it not only deals with problems once they've occurred, but gives a lot of good advice and exercises which could prevent trouble in the first place. Try to get hold of a copy - and get him to read it to, if he's willing. There are exercises in it that you can do together.

THanks guys.
We only had the first consultation session at Relate and we are now on the waiting list but can only do evenings so they don't know how long it is going to be before we can start.
He said he will think about going to see his doctor. I really think that he thinks by leaving me that will solve everything. His brother is also depressed at the moment and he actually said that when they spoke a lot of what his brother said made sense to him. They had a very dfficult childhod because his dad had a longstanding affair and he says that the ahppiest time of his life was when he and his um moved to a little house on their owns. He has accepted that he feels that the only way he can be happy is to run away to a little house on his own.
I think you are right about not throwing him out but how do I stop myself from asking abut his feelings and trying to get him to tell me everything is going to be ok. How do I relax around him when he is permanently frowning?

Layla I'm so sorry but my H did exactly what yours is doing. The depressed and 'need space' things that you mentioned really struck a chord with me.

We too went on a fantastic family holiday in the midst of it all. Then as soon as we got back it all went wrong again.

I now know that the day we got back, the OW got in touch with him, he went straight off to see her, and then she persuaded him to leave again. He needed this 'space' because he was living a double life and couldn't deal with it.

Of course, he did all of these things of his own free will. Tried to blame me at times like your dp has done, and also lied through our relate sessions!

I'm telling you this as I don't want to see you go through what I did. He came and went for 8 months, all the time saying there was nobody else, he was depressed, he needed space to work things out, he did love me etc etc. It was much later that I realised the extent of the lies and 'excuses'. It all revolved around the OW.

Please don't let him mess you about. (Easier said than done when you love someone so much - I know!)
Concentrate on yourself. Be relaxed and happy around him (as much as you can!), show him you don't need him, but you do want him and will be there for him. At the same time start building up your own confidence and friendships. Build your own life. If he chooses to be part of that then he will be a lucky man.

If he chooses to walk away there is nothing you can do to stop him anyway.

you need to do what you feel is best for the emotional health of your children and you.

he needs 'space'?

honey, that's what teenage boys say to their girlfriends, not grown men who have families.

i think you should continue counselling and if at all possible, go on your own as well to help you deal with your feelings in a manner you feel is most positive.

Thanks for beng honest with me Baffy. i hadn't mentioned this asnd please don't all thnk me a bad person but I had an aborton yesterday.
I found out 2 weeks ago that i was nearly 2 montghs pregnant. When my youngest dd was born last summer she was starved of oxygen and they expected her to be severely brain damaged. It took 8 months before they accepted that her brain was ok but she wtill has problems wth her kidneys. I was very badly affected by this and relied very heavily on dp who was very positive and very strong for me. Psychologically I could not cope with another pregnancy even if our relationship was ok.
We agreed to have a terminaton and he took me yesterday. The night before we were very emotional and had a row. THe next morning I heard him texting someone at 5.45 am. When I pushed him he sad he had texted her because he needed someone to talk to!! I went mad - why not talk to me I was going through tghis as well. He knew he had cocked up and texted her back to tell her to ignore it and not contact him. How could he do that.

What a fucker!!

Texting another woman shortly after escorting his wife to a termination.

That's a classy man you've got there.

I think I remember your other thread. Did the OW say that nothing would happen with your DH whilst you were still together?

I think that you could do with a few days away to sort out what YOU want. Stop focussing on what your DH wants and what he needs. Do you still love HIM? Do you want to live him? Take charge and don't let him treat you like a doormat any more.

layla I'm so so sorry for what you're going through

and the abortion on top of it all, no wonder you are both stressed out and can't think straight

am so so at hearing your dp texted her at that time! my H would do that all the time. for example one night we had an argument, he wanted to come and stay with me, I said it was best that he didn't and had the 'space' he wanted, and so he went straight to her house and slept with her! It's like they use the OW to get an ego boost and some attention - when they could just as easily get that attention from their own wife or partner if they put in that tiny bit of effort

am so sorry to hear all of that. what a thoughtless selfish thing for him to do.
it really does look like he can't think about anyone but himself right now. he is turning to her when he should be turning to you. do you think he is capable of cutting off all contact with her? I mean for real?

That message he sent to 'ignore' him was for effect more than anything. He knows full well she won't ignore it.

that's very Christian of this other hussy, to flirt around with a married man and even consider if it would work for him to abandon his family and be together with her.

She has said that they cannot be together until he leaves me and converts to her church. He doesn't even believe in god!!!
It is my mothers b day on sat and we are having a party. Some of his work mates are having a party on the same night and he has asked if he can go there after my mums while I put the kids to bed. He tells me he doesn't think she is ging but I bet she will be. When drink is invloved surely even christians won't hold back. if I say he can't go he will acuse me of controlling him again but I do not want him to do something we will all regret.
in anser to the ? I love him but how he used to be not how he has been since we got back from holiday. I want things to be right between us again.

Hi
Another one here who has been through this pain we are still going to counselling and at the moment it is all going well.

I agree with baffy he is looking for excuses to go and ease his concience by blaming you for many of the problems.

I did something similar to what baffy said - make yourself the best you can for yourself but also to 'show' him how wonderful you are and that he will not get better anywhere else.

Stick with the counselling and dont take to heart too much of what he is saying - he may not have said it in the right way and you may not have 'heard' him in the right way either. A good counsellor will pick up on all these things and guide you in the right direction.
I am sure you wont regret it even if things dont work out for you two at least you will have given it your all and can hold your head high.

Good luck and do feel free to cat me if you want some more support.

Hope you are feeling ok after the termination and there are not many who would jump on you for that, but you do need to take care of yourself as you are probably feeling a bit low anyway. Give yourself time and treat yourself with care for a while.

Thanks Happywoman
What happened with your relationship?

Just caught up again,

Of course you still love him and want the old him back - we have all said that.

If this ow was a real friend then she would back off and let you too sort this out and even support you.

I telephoned the ow and asked if she would tell me if he went back to her. of course she didnt tell me and it is for that reason i have no respect for her. People tell you that the ow 'owes' you nothing and to a certain extent that is true - but if you contact her and say what you have told us - that your h has told you that there will be no relationship until he has left you - at least the ball is in her court.

Do not be afraid of her - she will be just as scard of you.

I do feel your h is being an arse but sometimes they just need to see what they are losing to want to actually to work at getting it back.

Also dont let him tell you that yo are controlling him - he has his own free will. but do tell him how uncomfortable you feel with him going, if he chooses to ignore that it is his choice and on his concience.

The depressed thing too is a classic - he cant cope wiht what he doing - which could well be the start of a double life.

Still sit tight though and let him do the walking - dont let him play the victim too.

We are together - not always easy but working very hard.

Definitly different but doing more together and living much more for now - going on yet another holiday just the two of us. so even if it still goes tits up in the future i will have fun getting there.

Expect a bumpy ride but we are here for you.

How did you stop him leaving and how did you stop his other relationship?

He did leave - exactly one year today!! nothing i could do really - just what the others have said - wait hope and work on yourself.

I concentrated on the children - did nothing i would not be proud of (well a few mad things but that is another story). I did not clean out the bank account or change the locks - i tried as hard as i could to carry on as normally i could.

After a few weeks - he was begging me to make another go so we went to counselling (he was still seeing her then - but i did not know that at the time).

Eventually i went to see a solicitor and got the ball rolling - it was really on the brink - i had done all my begging and shouting and screaming by then anyway and was so worn down with it all. He says he had a 'born again' moment whilst all alone in his flat and pretty much had a breakdown.

It has been hard and although i would not wish it on anyone it has done us some good in that he knows what he wants for sure now. it is me now that still finds it difficult but i am so glad i had the chance to work on myself. i am a changed person who now has more time for my family and friends and tries to take time each day to see the good things i have. My h can now also see that it was him and not me - although he likes the new improved me. And he can now see the ow for what she was - someone willing to destroy not only her own family but mine and his too for her own happiness (and he hates it in her now).

They do still work together which i find hard but i hear she finds it harder than me but i try not to give her the power of my thoughts now.

Hope this helps and that you get what you wnat now.

Please feel free to cat me.

Layla, no one will judge you for your termination - many more of us have been in a predicament like that than ever let on and under the circumstances it's quite understandable, though so sad. You really do need to be very, very kind to yourself, as you are bound to grieve and feel even more emotional about the whole situation with dp. Maybe he's grieving too, but he's being a dickhead texting BAC woman instead of sharing it with you. Not to make excuses for him, but grief does take people in different ways and maybe he just didn't think it through before picking up the phone. If he does decide to take his 'space' and move out for awhile, try very hard to be positive about it, let him see you coping Very Well, positively thriving, and you may have a HappyWoman ending. Playing hard to get really does work .