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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I expecting too much?

73 replies

Mollymol · 23/12/2020 22:47

I have been with my boyfriend for just over 2 years. When we first met he did have a drink most nights but I never really thought it was an issue, just that he liked a beer to wind down at night. However when we started living together I realised there was more to it. It turned out he was drinking every day and it had become his way of “coping”. His mum and dad died in quite a traumatic way. He was fully functioning, still going to work, he didnt stay up drinking, he just had enough in his system to give him that chilled out feeling throughout the day. He had been doing this for almost 10 years, he had never gone a day without alcohol and i think because he “functioned” his family and ex partners buried their heads. We had a long talk about it and I said If we were to have a future he needed to try and tackle this. He ended up going to the doctors, got some tablets to help with the withdrawal symptoms and detoxed for 8 weeks. He suffered from quite severe withdrawal symptoms in the first week but he started to look and feel better after a couple of weeks. He started to re introduce alcohol at a more normal level but this is the part I find hard and wanted advice on. He has cut down a lot, doesn’t drink everyday but I can see him sometimes at the weekend “counting down” to the afternoon when it will be considered an “acceptable” time to drink. He says everyday is a struggle but he’s trying. If I see him slipping I will give him a gentle nudge but it does frustrate me at times. I know most people will probably say he needs to quit full stop but he doesn’t go off the rails, he’s not abusive, he’s loving and kind and we do normal things and I know to quit completely is a massive thing. I would like to maybe hear from anyone who has been dependent on alcohol so I can try and understand the battle he is fighting as I do get quietly frustrated at times. I try to let him figure this out but I’m not sure how often I should be pushing him in the right direction or at what stage I should be saying “I think you have had enough beer this week”. I’m also worried these next 2 weeks will set him back as most people drink more because it’s christmas”.

OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 23/12/2020 22:51

Personally, I would be ending this relationship immediately. He is an alcoholic who is still drinking, and he sounds like a ticking time bomb. Think about your future and how you want it to be. Do you want children someday? Having them with this man would be a recipe for disaster.

LividLover · 23/12/2020 22:53

No. I divorced an alcoholic and it started like this. You can’t police or control another person’s drinking. It’ll destroy you eventually.

Jenifirtree · 23/12/2020 22:56

He started to re introduce alcohol at a more normal level

He simply cannot do this. He is an alcoholic. He should not be drinking at all.

Stop wasting time on him. You cannot save him and he will make your life something completely unrecognisable from what you want. You cannot have a child with an alcoholic, if a child was in your life plan. Move on.

Mollymol · 23/12/2020 22:58

@Aquamarine1029 he already has children and he’s actually a really good dad. It’s a strange situation as although yes he’s an alcoholic, he’s massively cut down and it doesn’t affect his day to day life. He works and sees his kids a lot, he’s not passed out or drunk all the time, he’s fully functioning and more motivated than me! It’s his health I worry about though and what’s really going on inside his head.

OP posts:
Jenifirtree · 23/12/2020 23:00

Do you live somewhere you never have to drive? He never has to drive his existing children anywhere? Im in a northern town and we simply dont have the public transport to make having a car a possibility.

Mollymol · 23/12/2020 23:01

@LividLover did your ex husband ever sort himself out or is he still the same?

OP posts:
Jenifirtree · 23/12/2020 23:01

Not having a car ffs

Mollymol · 23/12/2020 23:02

@Jenifirtree his kids are teenagers. Not young kids. Live nearby.

OP posts:
Jenifirtree · 23/12/2020 23:05

But he has been an alcoholic for at least ten years. They werent always teenagers.

Does he never drive?

LividLover · 23/12/2020 23:09

He died of alcoholism at the age of 39, @Mollymol, which might be clouding my judgment somewhat admittedly.

He wasn’t always an alcoholic. He started as just a normal young man who liked a drink at weekends. It got worse, and the emotional and physical effects got worse.

He nose-dived over about a three year period until I left him. He lied constantly about getting sober and eventually died of liver failure in hospital where his skin had turned yellow.

I found out later that he’d “escaped” hospital on previous occasions when admitted to buy drink from the nearest shop.

I can write this down without crying now, just, because it’s five years since he died and I’ve remarried (a man who never drinks more than one beer because he knows how it makes me feel).

I loved him so much, and I thought I could save him. I certainly thought leaving him would force him to hit rock bottom and save himself. It didn’t.

Dozer · 23/12/2020 23:10

You sound in denial.

His drinking now WILL be having negative impact on his DC.

If you don’t want to end the relationship (which would be sensible) suggest Al Anon.

Dozer · 23/12/2020 23:10

(For families of people with alcohol problems)

Aquamarine1029 · 23/12/2020 23:11

It’s a strange situation as although yes he’s an alcoholic, he’s massively cut down and it doesn’t affect his day to day life.

He has cut down a lot, doesn’t drink everyday but I can see him sometimes at the weekend “counting down” to the afternoon when it will be considered an “acceptable” time to drink.

Of course his drinking effects his everyday life. His life revolves around it. Stop lying to yourself and stop trying to justify his behaviour. You are in for years of misery of you stay with him.

Jenifirtree · 23/12/2020 23:11

I was about to say you would benefit from some counselling for yourself.

Rockinmomma · 23/12/2020 23:11

I dated an alcoholic who cut down. Except he didn’t, he just drank secretly. Also highly functioning and good at acting sober.
He’ll always be an alcoholic OP

alexdgr8 · 23/12/2020 23:15

agree with above. this is not going anywhere good.
what do your parents think OP ?

partyatthepalace · 23/12/2020 23:17

He’s an alcoholic and he clearly isn’t managing controlled drinking so the only answer is to quit. You can’t do this for him.

I’d really be thinking of getting out now before you’re in too deep. But otherwise as a PP suggested I’d join AA family support group to get advice and a realistic sense of where this is going.

I’m not saying he can’t sort himself out but right now it seems he doesn’t want to.

You are looking at a bleak future OP

Mollymol · 23/12/2020 23:59

@LividLover I’m sorry to hear that. That must have been so hard for you. My partner had a liver test done and the doctor said although his numbers were higher than average it wasn’t anything cutting back won’t sort. If my BF had made no effort to change I would have left him by now but he’s trying, I know he’s mainly done this so he doesn’t lose me but I have said to him he needs to do this for himself too. To just walk away from him when he’s trying and he put himself through the withdrawal symptoms of detoxing seems pretty harsh. It sounds like most of you are saying no alcoholic should be in a relationship, however there are different versions and levels of alcoholism. I know of other men who drink a lot more than my partner does now but they aren’t considered “alcoholics”

OP posts:
HappyintheHills · 24/12/2020 00:13

Maybe it’s that no active alcoholic should be in a relationship?
You say he detoxed, how long was he sober for?

Mollymol · 24/12/2020 00:24

@HappyintheHills 2 months he didn’t drink for. But it was never the plan he would quit forever. I know I would find it hard to never drink again & I only drink once a week if that. He doesn’t drink to get drunk. If he starts to feel drunk he will switch to lemonade. If you can imagine before a first date you might have a a couple of drinks to calm your nerves. Well I think that’s the stage he likes to be at. So he will drink very moderately but if he could he would do it everyday. Like I say both his parents died in a traumatic way and I think this has been his way of blotting certain things out.

OP posts:
Jenifirtree · 24/12/2020 00:25

@Mollymol im going to assume that he is driving then, despite constantly having alcohol in his system. This is not safe for anyone.

What do you mean by he is a great father? What makes him a great father in your eyes?

What’s your line in the sand? What would you say would be non-negotiable? Is there something that you should end the relationship on?

I honestly think you should arrange some counselling. Examine what it is that makes you think this is a good idea.

AmberItsACertainty · 24/12/2020 00:32

[quote Mollymol]@Aquamarine1029 he already has children and he’s actually a really good dad. It’s a strange situation as although yes he’s an alcoholic, he’s massively cut down and it doesn’t affect his day to day life. He works and sees his kids a lot, he’s not passed out or drunk all the time, he’s fully functioning and more motivated than me! It’s his health I worry about though and what’s really going on inside his head.[/quote]
It does affect his day to day life, it's taking over his thoughts. It's not normal to be counting down the hours until you can drink again. Not just mentally counting down the hours either (and perhaps moaning to you about it in a similar way to when you're working and it's nearly time to leave), but looking visibly a bit 'twitchy' meaning you notice that's what he's doing without him telling you. You're seeing what he can't suppress. The tip of the iceberg, if you like. He admitted himself every day is a struggle.

He's a functional alcoholic. Whatever type of alcoholic you are the only solution is to never drink again ever, not even a little bit very occasionally. Zero. Before when he had that chilled out feeling during the day, that's drunk. Not blind drunk, falling down drunk, passing out drunk. But still drunk. And possibly doing all the things you're not supposed to do when drunk, like driving.

That's a feature of a functional alcoholic - you never/rarely see them visibly drunk. Because they've got a tolerance to alcohol, so an amount that makes the average person drunk doesn't make them drunk. Because you're so used to slightly-drunk them, that you don't realise you barely know what stone-cold-sober them looks like, slightly-drunk them has become what you think of as 'normal'. Because they're so used to hiding their alcoholism and they've had a lot of practice at it, so they're really quite good at not appearing visibly drunk, even when that's exactly what they are.

When you're dating, slightly-drunk them is probably literally all you ever saw. So stone-cold-sober them is the anomaly as far as you're concerned. They're not a morning person, you tell yourself. Or they're having a bad day. Are you a 'morning person' when you're hungover? That's the functional alcoholic, every day. Hungover. Or still drunk from last night, depending on how bad it's got. Of course they're stressed, they have a busy job and it's the end of the day. They need a little peace and quiet after work, maybe they're a little snappy for no reason, or maybe they reach for alcohol as soon as they get in. That's natural with a stressful job right? Except loads of people have stressful jobs and don't drink, snap, or require absolute peace on return from work. Plenty come home and happily chat to their families right away. Because they're not alcoholics. The functional alcoholic is stressed because they need a drink, they haven't had one all day (you hope! But they may well have, I've worked with plenty of people who have a pint or two at lunchtime, every day).

Raise your bar my lovely, you deserve way better than "he's not falling down drunk or passing out". It's good that he went through a detox and has cut down. But it'll creep back up again. It already has, the detox never lasted, did it.

My ex did this on repeat, although he never fully detoxed. He was slightly out of hand, back to relatively functional through cutting down, until he was back to square one again drinking more than even he was happy with. All the while deluding himself that he wasn't an alcoholic because he had some degree of control over his drinking, as well as the fact of his functioning. In reality it affected every second of his life, even when asleep. He was permanently either under the influence to some degree or suffering withdrawal to some degree. I'd never come across a functional alcoholic before. I wish I'd realised sooner, then I could have left sooner and started living my life instead of playing second fiddle to alcohol, which was always his first love.

Mollymol · 24/12/2020 00:33

@Jenifirtree no he isn’t driving. He speaks to his kids everyday, if they need him he’s there, before Covid he saw them a few times a week, his kids love seeing him and they have a good relationship. The line in the sand for me is if he starts drinking all day everyday again.

OP posts:
AmberItsACertainty · 24/12/2020 01:07

"I know of other men who drink a lot more than my partner does now but they're not considered'alcoholics'"

They should be, because that's what they are. But to an extent it's acceptable within society to be a functional alcoholic. Which is not the same thing as saying that it causes no harm.

"He doesn't drink to get drunk"

So he's drinking to alleviate withdrawal symptoms then, he's drinking just so he can feel normal, because without it he's in withdrawal and feeling shit.

"If he starts to feel drunk he will switch to lemonade".

Oh wait, so even though withdrawal has eased he's still drinking. He doesn't stop when symptoms ease, he stops when he starts to feel drunk/tipsy. That's drinking to be drunk. Mildly drunk, but drunk all the same. It's deliberate.

You seem defensive OP. I agree it's hard to be in a society where there's almost an expectation that people will drink, at least occasionally. A society where sometimes, depending on who you're surrounded by, it almost seems unacceptable to be permanently sober. How messed up is that? But it's a choice to ditch people who pressure us into unhelpful unhealthy things, to stand our ground against them if necessary and choose to have people around us who are more in line with our own values. But he values drinking, that's the problem, so he's not going to do that.

There's a difference between your relationship with alcohol and his. Yours isn't going to harm anyone. His will. Already has. Damaged his liver. Oh it's not permanent so that's ok. Really? Really really? Trigger warning The cuts on a self-harmers arm will heal if they're not too deep, so we should just leave them to it, it's not a problem, it's how they cope?

His alcoholism has damaged you too. You're already taking on a higher mental load, feeling responsible for his health, for fixing it or maintaing it. Feeling sad about it, posting on here because you're thinking about it, spending time and energy defending his choices to us. We don't care. We don't know him, we're not emotionally involved. But we care about you, the anonymous stranger on the internet who reached out for help, that's why we're posting. We're not the enemy. Alcohol is, for some people, like your partner. Like you too, if you're not careful. If the earth orbits the sun and the moon orbits the earth, then the moon by default is also orbiting the sun without even trying. Take care.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 24/12/2020 01:52

Do you want kids at any point?

If so, choosing to have them with a functioning alcoholic who doesn't want to entirely give up alcohol surely feels massively unfair on the child you'd be bringing into this situation, no?!

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