Am I expecting too much?

[Mollymol]

I have been with my boyfriend for just over 2 years. When we first met he did have a drink most nights but I never really thought it was an issue, just that he liked a beer to wind down at night. However when we started living together I realised there was more to it. It turned out he was drinking every day and it had become his way of “coping”. His mum and dad died in quite a traumatic way. He was fully functioning, still going to work, he didnt stay up drinking, he just had enough in his system to give him that chilled out feeling throughout the day. He had been doing this for almost 10 years, he had never gone a day without alcohol and i think because he “functioned” his family and ex partners buried their heads. We had a long talk about it and I said If we were to have a future he needed to try and tackle this. He ended up going to the doctors, got some tablets to help with the withdrawal symptoms and detoxed for 8 weeks. He suffered from quite severe withdrawal symptoms in the first week but he started to look and feel better after a couple of weeks. He started to re introduce alcohol at a more normal level but this is the part I find hard and wanted advice on. He has cut down a lot, doesn’t drink everyday but I can see him sometimes at the weekend “counting down” to the afternoon when it will be considered an “acceptable” time to drink. He says everyday is a struggle but he’s trying. If I see him slipping I will give him a gentle nudge but it does frustrate me at times. I know most people will probably say he needs to quit full stop but he doesn’t go off the rails, he’s not abusive, he’s loving and kind and we do normal things and I know to quit completely is a massive thing. I would like to maybe hear from anyone who has been dependent on alcohol so I can try and understand the battle he is fighting as I do get quietly frustrated at times. I try to let him figure this out but I’m not sure how often I should be pushing him in the right direction or at what stage I should be saying “I think you have had enough beer this week”. I’m also worried these next 2 weeks will set him back as most people drink more because it’s christmas”.

"I know of other men who drink a lot more than my partner does now but they're not considered'alcoholics'"

I've known men who physically abuse their partners (who I obviously cut any ties with) but that doesn't make it any less wrong or awful that other men who 'only' emotionally abuse their partners are not considered abusive..:

@AmberItsACertainty

"I know of other men who drink a lot more than my partner does now but they're not considered'alcoholics'"

They should be, because that's what they are. But to an extent it's acceptable within society to be a functional alcoholic. Which is not the same thing as saying that it causes no harm.

"He doesn't drink to get drunk"

So he's drinking to alleviate withdrawal symptoms then, he's drinking just so he can feel normal, because without it he's in withdrawal and feeling shit.

"If he starts to feel drunk he will switch to lemonade".

Oh wait, so even though withdrawal has eased he's still drinking. He doesn't stop when symptoms ease, he stops when he starts to feel drunk/tipsy. That's drinking to be drunk. Mildly drunk, but drunk all the same. It's deliberate.

You seem defensive OP. I agree it's hard to be in a society where there's almost an expectation that people will drink, at least occasionally. A society where sometimes, depending on who you're surrounded by, it almost seems unacceptable to be permanently sober. How messed up is that? But it's a choice to ditch people who pressure us into unhelpful unhealthy things, to stand our ground against them if necessary and choose to have people around us who are more in line with our own values. But he values drinking, that's the problem, so he's not going to do that.

There's a difference between your relationship with alcohol and his. Yours isn't going to harm anyone. His will. Already has. Damaged his liver. Oh it's not permanent so that's ok. Really? Really really? Trigger warning The cuts on a self-harmers arm will heal if they're not too deep, so we should just leave them to it, it's not a problem, it's how they cope?

His alcoholism has damaged you too. You're already taking on a higher mental load, feeling responsible for his health, for fixing it or maintaing it. Feeling sad about it, posting on here because you're thinking about it, spending time and energy defending his choices to us. We don't care. We don't know him, we're not emotionally involved. But we care about you, the anonymous stranger on the internet who reached out for help, that's why we're posting. We're not the enemy. Alcohol is, for some people, like your partner. Like you too, if you're not careful. If the earth orbits the sun and the moon orbits the earth, then the moon by default is also orbiting the sun without even trying. Take care.

This. Every bit of this.

I am a child of an alcoholic and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. He may be a good dad on the surface but his addiction will always come first. Do you want that for your own children in the future?

It’s all or nothing. Detox or alcoholism, albeit functional.

Please discuss this frankly with him. I would not entertain this situation for any amount of time based on my own experience of a father who was functional for a long time but destructive and almost entirely emotionally absent.

I am almost 30 years old and this has honestly been a plague in my life, my mother and siblings the same.

[quote Mollymol]@HappyintheHills 2 months he didn’t drink for. But it was never the plan he would quit forever. I know I would find it hard to never drink again & I only drink once a week if that. He doesn’t drink to get drunk. If he starts to feel drunk he will switch to lemonade. If you can imagine before a first date you might have a a couple of drinks to calm your nerves. Well I think that’s the stage he likes to be at. So he will drink very moderately but if he could he would do it everyday. Like I say both his parents died in a traumatic way and I think this has been his way of blotting certain things out.[/quote]
I wouldn't drink before a first date to calm my nerves because I don't use alcohol to medicate myself.

Like PPs I think you're on a hiding to nothing. If he needs help to get over the traumatic loss of his parents he needs counselling. He won't find help in a bottle of wine. He needs to stop drinking completely and never drink again

I divorced an alcoholic, relationships like this don't end well. I cannot be around people who drink heavily now.

Op how much does he actually drink?

Your posts say firstly he’s not drunk or passed out “all the time” indicating he is some of the time, then you say he switches to lemonade before he is drunk ans only has a couple of drinks.

How much does he drink ?

He may have put himself through the pain of detox - but he immediately started drinking again, and you can see him counting down to his next drink. That's alcoholism.

So it was just a grand gesture.

It did what he wanted it to do - it persuaded you he wanted to change, and let him pretend he can stop anytime he wants to (the old alcoholic cliché).

But it's all put to the lie by him picking up the bottle again.

You're no further forward. You've just been suckered.

@Bluntness100 it varies. During the week he will drink 4 beers on a couple of the nights. Then he will have 2 nights off. It’s more the weekend he drinks a lot. I can say we are definitely further forward than a year ago. A year ago I discovered he was drinking from the moment he got up every day just at a slow pace so he could be “functioning”. He’s now in a new job where he would not be able to drink or take drink to work. His old work environment was one where they would turn a blind eye to things like this and they did do. It’s very easy to say “walk away” when you don’t know us or how our relationship is. I am posting on here so obviously it does affect me in some respect but the good outweighs the bad. He loves me and cares for me, we get on great, he would do anything for anyone and if anyone needed him he would be there in a shot. Anyone who knows him says what a great guy he is, and I’ve even had a message off one of his mates I only met once saying thank you for what I have done for him and that they have seen a big change in him. I’m not in denial and I know there’s still work to be done here. It may come to the point that I leave him but most people have some sort of vice. My friends husband is a chain smoker but has COPD, so should she leave him because he won’t quit? Someone else I know would be considered obese but should her husband leave her because she won’t diet? It’s all too easy to say “walk away” but if you look into anyone’s relationship there will most likely be something there behind closed doors that someone else might not put up with.

Four beers a couple of times a week isn’t bad.

How much does he drink at the weekend?

What about the financial expense of the drinking . Another thing to consider is the amount he Siena's on alcohol especially if you are trying to save.

*Spending

It isn't the amount he drinks presently, it's the underlying alcoholism that's the problem. It's the psychological dependence where he's anticipating the next time he can drink. That's the wedge to backsliding. Plenty of alcoholics are able to function for years, or temporarily appear to control it. I don't believe an alcoholic can go back to drinking at all safely. They need to quit fully.

@SecretDoor money isn’t really an issue and is I can’t really say anything about his spending with the amount of parcels I order 😬 @category12 this is what my worry is, the psychological issue. Like I said I know there’s other people out there who drink more than he does now but it’s considered “acceptable” as they don’t that underlying NEED. @Bluntness100 I would say at the weekend he would go through 8 -10 bottles of beer on sat and the same on Sunday, but he will probably start at 3pm and make them last til bed time. I never ever buy him alcohol and he would never ask me to. I don’t want to ruin Xmas but I will talk to him in the new year. I guess I came on here to see what people thought would be an acceptable drinking level but I know most people say quit altogether.

8-10 beers on both Saturday and Sunday is a lot. He's drinking way over recommended levels.

Look 20 beers over a weekend is really not cutting down and being in control, is it? Especially combined with at least two nights of drinking during the week. You are, understandably, kidding yourself, as is he. He sounds like a decent bloke but the only chance is for him to recognise his problem for what it is and give up completely forever.

www.drinkaware.co.uk/tools/self-assessment

Gosh I'm speechless. DH's cousin had been a functioning alcoholic for the last 5 years with 2hospital admissions one of which the ambulance crew had to break down the door to get to him as he had passed out in pain and was home alone. Just after Easter Sunday this year he was at his girlfriends drinking and had another episode ambulance called. He was in a coma for 2 weeks and in intensive care since April until September. He just got discharged in November. Cirrhosis, pancreatitis, heart complications and kidney failure were amongst his symptoms. He is 37 and has an 11 year old son who has to watch or listen to all this. I don't know what the answer is but we are waiting to see what happens as he's still not fully recovered although he swears he'll never drink again. The above is life with an alcoholic, I don't live with him but I'm exhausted hearing about him and worrying about him.

There is no acceptable drinking level for an alcoholic.

My friends husband is a chain smoker but has COPD, so should she leave him because he won’t quit I wouldnt have even dated him because I wouldnt have wanted to be near the smell, have it impact my health and i certainly wouldnt have chosen a smoker as the father of my children. I wouldnt have dated any addict.

Being with an addict is going to have a massively negative effect on your life. It would be incredibly selfish of you both to have a child. Are you certain you don't want a child? Would you really choose an addict as the father of your child? At the moment you are describing him as a great father but your description matches that of a great uncle. He isnt there doing the hard stuff. If you had a child with him, he would have to deal with it all. It is stressful. And you'd have chosen a father of your child who uses alcohol to deal with stress, so his drinking would increase.

You are not passive in this. You are choosing a future with an addict. i really urge you to explore why.

He must have been consuming a staggering amount of alcohol previously, if you think 20 beers at the weekend and four on weeknights bar a couple of days of nothing, is "cutting down" .

Are you a child of alcoholics yourself, or grown up around alcoholism?

@category12 no my mum doesn’t really drink and my dad drinks socially / at weekends. Never drinks in the week unless an occasion. I enjoy a drink at weekends but can easy go a few weeks without. In my circle drinking has always been a social / weekend thing, so I wouldn’t think anything of someone having quite a bit to drink at the weekend. Most male friends I know and men I have have had a relationship with in the past like a drink. But I guess it’s what circles you mix in. I have always liked a “mans man” but none of my past relationships have had a dependency on alcohol. I’m with my partner because I didn’t realise he had the dependency until I was already in deep. I think this thread has shown everyone has their own thoughts on what’s “too much” I guess.

OP you really sound in denial/making up excuses. 20 pints at the weekend is a problem. Drinking does not define a man. My DH drinks maybe one if that.

I think this thread has shown everyone has their own thoughts on what’s “too much” I guess.

You're really minimising. It's out of the norm to drink like your bloke does. He hasn't got it under control. The drink has control of him.

I recommend that you get in touch with Al-Anon for yourself to get support and advice.

It sounds like most of you are saying no alcoholic should be in a relationship

No. If a person with an alcohol problem is going to be in a relationship, they need to be in a relationship with somebody who isn't confused enough to be posting on an internet forum about how much they should control the addict's recovery.

There are no rules, but he's crossing your boundaries and you're getting too involved. It isn't healthy. Back away to the extent that he can recover on his own, and see if he ends up with behaviours that don't cross your boundaries. Rather than trying to manage his recovery so that he meets your needs.

He is an alcoholic. Alcoholics are able to withstand withdrawal for longer than most other addictions which is why binge drinkers who drink every few days don’t realise they have a problem for a long time.

Effectively, he is withdrawing and coping with the withdrawal when he is not drinking. Cutting down is only helpful in the sense that his health will be better than if drinking a vast amount. He is still battling with an addiction.

A smoker who manages to cut down to 2 cigarettes a day is still somebody who is addicted but they are just withstanding the withdrawal for longer. I imagine this would actually be quite stressful and I am not surprised he’s counting down the hours until he can have a drink.

His body now sees drinking as an integral requirement to life, just as ours would consider food and water an integral requirement. It can take years to rewire the brain into believing it no longer needs alcohol (or other substances for that matter). The only way to tackle this is to cease drinking alcohol all together, otherwise he is always going to be in a state of unrest.

I feel for anybody having to embark on tackling an addiction. It is not as easy as just stopping drinking, once they have tackled that part, they have to deal with life in a way they are unfamiliar with and learn all new coping mechanisms and ways to relax.

@Lucy830 thank you for your constructive post. Both me and my partner know he’s an alcoholic and don’t deny that. Part of the issue though is that people have let him bury his head for so long. His ex work, family, ex partners and friends, no one has ever directly sat him down and spoke about it to him. He has to take responsibility for himself and I know that but he said himself that because everyone else pretended he was ok it let him pretend too. Whilst a few of you have implied his detox was just to pacify me, I don’t think he would have done 2 months of no alcohol purely just for me to stay. We sat and spoke about everything and he was very much committed to doing this for himself too. He had never had a day off drinking in around 10 years and his withdrawal symptoms were bad at first. So although he’s still not in control like you or me, surely he deserves a bit of credit for admitting he has a problem and trying. I am not in denial, otherwise I wouldn’t be posting on here. I just think “walk away” is too harsh, and not really helpful. All this talk about men and mental health and yet people on here are saying “walk away”. I know I’m not a counsellor or trained in this and I don’t pretend to be. But I see a good man, who loves me who has used alcohol to deal with his mum and dad being killed because he is a man who bottles things up and did not talk to anyone about it. If that makes me an idiot to stay with him for now then so be it.

Oh I see so much of my past self in you, @Mollymol.

I would try and minimise and excuse too. I spent ages looking up non-AA recovery programmes for people who could cut down their drinking but not abstain. I thought he/we could live a “normal” life if he just cut down.

It’s unrealistic. Didn’t stop me hoping.

The comparisons with smoking and obesity are false ones, because in most cases neither cause you to lie through your teeth, or spoil the life of your family, or lose jobs, or get into debt, or change your personality.

Go to Al-Anon for support for you when next you need it, because one day you will. And it’s the not knowing if that moment will be this week or next year that’s the thing, because it’s like living with a sword over your head.

Doesn’t mean you don’t love him, or that he isn’t in other ways great to be around. But this will come back. Don’t let it be when you’re married or have kids to make the consequences even harder.