Men asking women out

[inuet]

I was talking to a straight single male friend about dating. His argument was that single men don't want to ask women out because they fear rejection and accusations of harassment. He feels men have no self-esteem and loads of them stay single for most of their lives. I maintain that many single straight women do want to be approached respectfully by men they are attracted to. I acknowledged there is a difficulty for the approacher who may not know whether or not the person being approached wants the attention. That is where gracefully accepting no for an answer comes in. Any thoughts?

He sounds pathetic.
I can’t stand men who feel sorry from themselves.

I feel there is a middle ground where most men reside. Sure there will be shy ones, who fear rejection, likewise, bolshey ones who try too hard and boarder on harassment when rejected. Both of these extreme ends are likely to be single longer. But to say it's men in general, the ones in the middle sensible region that are doomed to singleton, nah, I'm not buying that.

There's a huge difference between asking someone out and taking no for an answer and behaving respectfully the whole time and sexual harassment. If you cant do one without doing the other then maybe its best he does stay single..

Yes I believe him, why would he make it up? The metoo movement was absolutely necessary to shine a spotlightght on what a huge problem harassment is but it left a lot of people being confused. What is flirting? What is harassment? I'm going to play it safe.

I'm a man and struggle with OLD, I prefer the face to face approach. The last time I asked a woman out, just before lockdown and face to face, she turned round and said she had two kids and lives with the father! I felt gutted but respected where she was at and took it on the chin. She had been flirting with me for months beforehand in ways that couldn't be mistaken for being friendly, she was probably just after attention.

They dude in the OP sounds like a millenial!

In my experience men who say "you can't do anything without being accused of harassment" are usually just men who harass women.

I've been respectfully approached and asked out before and I've given them back the same respect when declining.

@DoWahDiddy I imagine the woman you asked out was just being friendly because you work together.

I don’t think there’s much doubt when a woman’s interested, though I think men somehow aren’t aware, which is bizarre as it should be obvious.

I had this conversation with a male friend recently and said, if you smile at her and she doesn’t smile back it’s a definite no. If you do it a few times and she smiles each time, then it’s ok to approach.

That’s why I think there’s no need for any confusion or any cringy chat up lines.

I mean just look for visual signs of her interest, it’s not hard.

@WarrickDavisAsPlates

She worked in the shop next to where I worked and we didn't speak for a good while, just flirting. She would come to the window of my workplace, put her hands on her hips and wiggle suggestively. Lots of smiling and eye contact as well. That behaviour was only reserved for me. What's a man to think?!

In that case she was clearly flirting and was an idiot for doing so if she didn’t mean it

In my experience men who say "you can't do anything without being accused of harassment" are usually just men who harass women.

Exactly this. It's usually men who don't know how to treat a woman like she's a human being who now feel it's impossible to speak to women.

I usually find its the opposite way around, cocky munters you wouldn't touch with a bargepole trying their luck...

No prawn dick, smiling in your general direction does not mean I want to have sex with you 🤫

If someone approached me respectfully and I wasn't interested I would be kind though.

Why is eye contact and smiling automatically flirting?
I get that wiggling hips is but the rest can just be doing their job in a friendly way.
As for men who can’t tell the difference between flirting and sexual harassment- perhaps they should think about how they’d feel if a woman or man they definitely weren’t attracted to was doing the same to them. Problem solved

I was picturing a sort of bar/club scenario in which case I think consistent eye contact and smiling directly at a stranger is a pretty likely sign that it’s ok to approach.

I don’t mean at work or if someone’s serving you in a shop obviously

I think you are right Op with the exception of the workplace. I think men that work for larger companies that have more explicit policies around sexual harassment etc do not countenance,even approaching a woman whom works for the same company. I think it is fair to say most companies medium and large size tend to discourage it due to the grief if it goes wrong or the woman sees an approach as harassment.

I do know of female colleagues that have been very attracted to men in the workplace and eventually the men became aware but refused point blank to consider it due to employment tribunal risks. What was nice was one guy changed job to another company which was a step up. He asked her out for a meal the day he left. They are engaged now!

[quote DoWahDiddy]@WarrickDavisAsPlates

She worked in the shop next to where I worked and we didn't speak for a good while, just flirting. She would come to the window of my workplace, put her hands on her hips and wiggle suggestively. Lots of smiling and eye contact as well. That behaviour was only reserved for me. What's a man to think?![/quote]
She wiggled her hips? In what way? That's weird behaviour

@Krazynights34

Why is eye contact and smiling automatically flirting?

She would come to the window, i.e., stopping as she walked by, seek me out and flirt (hip wiggle time)! Bare in mind we were strangers at the time. I ended up wondering what it was all about so I just started talking to her and we got on. Her pupils would dilate and she would blush when I spoke to her. She hid the fact she had a partner and kids until I asked her out.

I make eye contact and smile at strangers and I agree that itself isn't automatic flirting.

And Op, I think in the end if they're too afraid of those things and are happy to stay single instead then that's their choice.

If they're too scared of those things but unhappy being single then that also their choice, not women's.

If they're desperate to find someone then they have to push through and try like everyone else does when they want something but are nervous/worried.

It's their life, their choice, their courage to find. If they think it's unfair that women might reject them or might think they're harassing them then they need to remember that women are humans who also have choice - sometimes not to be interested. If they're respectful then it's unlikely they'd be accused of harassment.

Either way, he needs to stop blaming women for his singleness. It's not our problem to fix for him or to accept him if we don't want to.

@DoWahDiddy I don't understand what you mean by hip wiggling! She's just stop and start wiggling like she was dancing? Or she was putting her hand on her hip and kind of rocking occasionally when she stands?

The latter just happens sometimes, women's hips tend to stick out and we shift our weight around to be more comfy.

The former is odd.

@CorianderQueen

She wiggled her hips? In what way?

In this sort of way...

Huh, so standing and sexually moving herself. Tbh, I know the PP thinks I'm od, but I don't think it's ever occurred to me to do that.

Def flirtatious though

When men want to shag you they interpret everything as a code, a singal for them, a tease , a titilating show. Fucking holy confidence and delusions! If i flip my hair, she touched her hair for me. If i smile because you look like a hungry dog and its awkard, you think its for you. If my breasts bounce when i walk you think im doing it for you..hahahahahahahahaha