Men asking women out

[inuet]

I was talking to a straight single male friend about dating. His argument was that single men don't want to ask women out because they fear rejection and accusations of harassment. He feels men have no self-esteem and loads of them stay single for most of their lives. I maintain that many single straight women do want to be approached respectfully by men they are attracted to. I acknowledged there is a difficulty for the approacher who may not know whether or not the person being approached wants the attention. That is where gracefully accepting no for an answer comes in. Any thoughts?

It’s completely okay to flirt and still turn down a date

Well, yes, however - and this goes for both men and women - it muddies the waters and - IMO - is a bit dickish if you persistently flirt with someone you know is single that you have no intention of dating yourself, purely because it strokes your ego or brightens up your day. If both of you know in advance it’s going nowhere, fair enough.

Just look at some of the posts by women on the OLD threads bemoaning the men who engage them, make them think something’s happening and then disappear. It’s as depressing as fuck for both sexes to be single, to be led to believe someone likes you and then at the eleventh hour be told “oh no, sorry, I’m not interested in you in that way at all.” And worse, it then makes you question the next person who flirts with you: are they serious? Are they just having some fun? Look up “learned helplessness”. After a while you can start to convince yourself that someone who really is interested in going on a date with you is just having “fun” as well, so why bother? Because at the end of the day that’s what flirting’s for. A way of telling someone who might actually want to date them.

*you not who

I think your male friend used to harass women and now he can't get away with it so is blaming women for his poor self esteem

@YouShouldLeave

He sounds pathetic. I can’t stand men who feel sorry from themselves.

Man has human feelings like a fear of rejection and he’s pathetic?

He should man up, not have feelings and be a man about it should he?

Fucking toxic shit

Men like this - well, incel comes to mind. Nasty attitude where whatever a woman does is wrong and women are to blame for their inability to have a relationship.

Here's a handy hint about harrassment for the pathetically confused. If you like a woman, don't whistle, or shout things to her, or make comments about her body or attractiveness. Ask her if she would like to go for a coffee. Just that, nothing more.

If she says yes, great. If she says no, no big deal. Do not ask again. If you ask again, that is harrassment. Move on and ask someone else. Same applies to women asking men out.

How is that so difficult? It's only difficult for those who are playing out some other agenda.

I'll just repeat what I said earlier:

Ask her out.

If she says yes, great
If she says no, she's not interested
If she says she's really busy, maybe another time - she's not interested
If she says she's really busy this week but how about Tuesday next week - she's interested

Just look at some of the posts by women on the OLD threads bemoaning the men who engage them, make them think something’s happening and then disappear.

Umm.. No. That's a little different because its Online DATING (so it's strange when people match and then don't reply to messages ). I have been doing it for about 6 months now - if at any point in the online dating process a man dissappears (and it can and does happen often) , I'm a little confused. That's all. I'm not bitter or anything when it's time to ask the next one out for a coffee date.

If someone is flirty outside of the scope of online dating I leave it to the flirt to make the next move. It soon becomes apparent if that's the way they roll or are actually interested (that cue of being asked for a coffee).

I think some men (and it's mostly men) approach the whole dating game in such a heavy and neurotic way that it puts women off.

And that "crossing the dance floor in front of your mates to ask a girl out".
Strangely enough, I manage to leave a nightclub having exchanged numbers with numerous guys without any of us going through the strange process above. Must be you and your weird mates!

@Clymene
Some should print and tape that to their fridge

Obviously not ALL single men feel like this. I was approached when out the other day by a bloke who asked me if I had a man in my life - he said he just saw me and thought I looked lovely (I really don’t, especially, but it takes all sorts) and thought he would kick himself if he didn’t at least ask. I was quite impressed and charmed (I DO have a man in my life as it happens - otherwise, I would probably have agreed to meet him for a coffee).

Surely some people, men and women, are just more confident with this stuff than others. I have asked men out in the past myself, but equally have girlfriends who would never do so....... 🤷‍♀️. Takes all sorts.......

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

Her pupils would dilate

Fuck me you must have been close to her face to notice something like that. She would blush while talking, but had the confidence to stand outside the window infront of other people and wiggle her hips in a sexy, suggestive way?

Wasn't that close. Talking distance, yes. Her pupils were like saucers.

My hypothesis is that she had a crush on me and when things got real, well... Like going to the the zoo and looking at a caged tiger. You know you're safe and confident standing outside the enclosure looking in. But standing there face to face with nothing in between is a whole different thing.