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Original poster

‘Snake’ eyes

82 replies

Berr · 15/12/2020 22:41

My SIL seems like a lovely person and we always get on, but I am becoming increasingly freaked out by her ‘unguarded’ moments. One day, when I’d known her for a while, I was chatting with my brother and happened to glance at her and her expression really unnerved me. She was quite coldly and unguardedly checking me out. She saw me looking and looked normal and smily again, but it really changed how I felt about her. Since then I’ve caught her doing it again, with me or the kids. E.G my four year old was wanting my husbands attention and she looked at her so coldly, almost like she was assessing her. Has by one else met anyone who seems to briefly wear their feelings on their face like this?
We saw them after the last lockdown and there were two occasions where the mask slipped and you could see microexpressions of disdain. Feel like I’ve got a bit of cognitive dissonance, because my head’s telling me she’s lovely, but my instinct’s saying she doesn’t wish us well.

OP posts:
AccidentallyOnPurpose · 16/12/2020 22:35

So it's you that doesn't like her.
It's you that judges her(fair enough i guess).
It's you that judges her character.

Maybe she's watching you for the same signs you're watching her. Except she'd be right to assume you don't like or trust her.

Samedaysameshit · 16/12/2020 23:40

Going with the flow, it's all a game to me
Seven or eleven, snake eyes watching you
Double up or quit, double stake or split, the Ace of Spades
The Ace of Spades…
Source

StopDoingWeirdThings · 16/12/2020 23:51

I would trust your gut instinct. I've seen similar flashes of nastiness on two different people, both seemed lovely but turned out to be quite horrible.

DioneTheDiabolist · 16/12/2020 23:55

The flashes of disdain though, I’m sure they are real. Can people genuinely not recognise micro expressions?

I read micro expressions, it's an important part of my job. However I wouldn't give much credence to them when going from resting face to engagement which is what you're describing OP.

Original poster
Berr · 17/12/2020 00:41

@DioneTheDiabolist
No, It isn’t though. I’m accepting she mighthave resting bitch face, even though it looks very much like she’s looking people up and down. The micro-expressions are separate and happen in conversation. An example: we were talking about clothes sizes and I mentioned I’d briefly gone up to a 14 after I had one of my kids and there was what I can only describe as a glint of amusement/smugness/ before the mask went back on.
I usually take people to have good intentions and it is important that I get along with her because she’s family now, but this, with her history makes me feel unsettled.

OP posts:
Rybvita · 17/12/2020 00:59

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

So it's you that doesn't like her. It's you that judges her(fair enough i guess). It's you that judges her character.

Maybe she's watching you for the same signs you're watching her. Except she'd be right to assume you don't like or trust her.

This.

OP, i think it's equally likely you're projecting onto her, even after I read your update. I understand what you mean though about not trusting/liking someone who would get involved with a married man (are you sure though that your brother didn't lie to her about the state of his marriage as that's very common with lying and cheating spouses?) To be honest if I was in your position I would think much less about my own brother compared to the OW, considering he was the one who was actually married and was responsible for breaking up his own family!

The other thing is that people's gut instincts about other people are often wrong because everyone projects their own biases and assumptions onto others. I'm HSP and 99% of the time my gut instinct about people turns out to be true as I can unconsciously read little body language and other signs that other people don't notice (I often sense traits in other people within my first 1-2 meetings with them, that takes other people months or even years later to notice). I've noticed that most other people don't have accurate gut instincts about other people, even though they can get good gut instincts about other things.

Funny how resting bitch faces are so common! I have one myself and often get told things that couldn't be further from the truth so I wouldn't trust most people's "gut instinct" about me.

Rybvita · 17/12/2020 01:04

[quote Berr]@DioneTheDiabolist
No, It isn’t though. I’m accepting she mighthave resting bitch face, even though it looks very much like she’s looking people up and down. The micro-expressions are separate and happen in conversation. An example: we were talking about clothes sizes and I mentioned I’d briefly gone up to a 14 after I had one of my kids and there was what I can only describe as a glint of amusement/smugness/ before the mask went back on.
I usually take people to have good intentions and it is important that I get along with her because she’s family now, but this, with her history makes me feel unsettled.[/quote]
If I were you, I wouldn't discuss anything vulnerable with her, just keep it to polite talk if you suspect something underhand from her. You don't need to be close to her just because your brother decided to cheat on his wife and take up with her. Time will reveal more about her character.

CuppaZa · 17/12/2020 01:05

Micro expressions are completely different to resting bitch face. Resting bitch face is just that - resting and your natural relaxed face. These flashing micro expressions are flashing and momentary, and convey feelings. Not everyone picks up on them.
I have met a couple of people with these expressions @Berr, I didn’t warm to them well

AmyFl · 17/12/2020 01:12

I could never trust someone who was the OW, it speaks volumes about their character.

Kalula · 17/12/2020 01:44

@DioneTheDiabolist What the OP is describing is most certainly no 'resting bitch face'. RESTING, is the key word here. SIL had narrowed her eyes and was looking her up and down. That is ACTIVE bitch face, not 'resting'. SIL was actively judging her and actively looking at her with contempt.

I think people are omitting the resting part of the saying, because what OP is describing (and I've seen it myself) is active looking and active facial expressions. Nothing remotely 'resting' about it at all.

Kalula · 17/12/2020 01:49

Resting bitch face is just that - resting and your natural relaxed face.

Exactly. Unless SIL's natural relaxed face looks like that (in which case, everyone would have noticed it if it is how she normally looks), it is not 'resting' or 'natural relaxed face'. If a person's natural 'resting' face had the look of eyes narrowed and actively looking someone up and down with contempt, um....I think everyone would noticed it. Lol. Not just the OP.

lovelemoncurd · 17/12/2020 02:13

Don't let some people gaslight you on here op. If you sense it then you sense it. Trust your own instinct.

duckinatruckwithmuck · 17/12/2020 02:16

My in laws are like this- seemingly perfect but you catch them off guard and all of a sudden, the reasons for my husband wanting to keep a distance make sense.

Freyaismyname · 17/12/2020 02:35

You know! Trust your judgment and vibe when she's around! Your gut instinct isn't there for nothing

Letshavesometea · 17/12/2020 03:21

I agree OP there is a big difference between resting bitch face and micro expressions. Trust your instincts.

BilboBercow · 17/12/2020 04:27

I think it's in your head.

You have projected a character onto this woman because of your initial judgement of her and you're looking for evidence to back ot up

DailyCandy · 17/12/2020 04:41

I can’t believe how many people are trying to convince the OP that it’s all in her head. OP, you are the only one who has actually seen this - and you know this woman, everyone here does not.
Go with your gut - if something about her manner and expression makes you mistrustful of her - pay close attention. I’d be returning the looks and see how she reacts: subtly let her know you’re on to her.

Mummyoflittledragon · 17/12/2020 04:56

I would keep your guard up. I know and have met people in the past, who seem oh so lovely but actually aren’t. Some are just better at it than others. Light, superficial conversations. She had no issue with shutting on another woman afterall.

Mummyoflittledragon · 17/12/2020 04:56

*shitting.

SimonJT · 17/12/2020 05:24

@MedusasBadHairDay

I've been accused of being "scary" and "intimidating" because I apparently do this. I wouldn't read too much into it if you otherwise get on well with her.
This. My partner said that when he first met me I looked like I might stab him, its just my face. My colleagues sometimes take screenshots of me on zoom, they have a competition to get the scariest one!

I was once shouted at for intimidating someone on the tube, I was reading a poem above their head.

HmmSureJan · 17/12/2020 06:07

@Bupkiss

So you don't like your SIL.

it's ok, we get it. You don't have to make up some spurious snake eyes bullshit to justify it.

What a nasty, dismissive post.

I'm finding this thread quite interesting. MN regularly has threads about how we get a bad feeling about people and are later proved to be right. On this one though someone specifically describes one of the small examples of body language or facial expression that we spot often without even realising which then contributes to our instinctive reactions and is being told she must be imagining it and seemingly the majority posting here has a resting bitch face but are lovely really. Trust your instincts I say. Due to a scary, constantly heightened, aggressive mother I am an expert at spotting nasty people and the underlying deceptions and indications of negativity they're displaying without realising, and I am never wrong. It's served me well over the years.

Wantsadvice1978909 · 17/12/2020 06:26

My mil tries to act lovely on the surface but put her in the same room as my mother and she gives her the dirtiest looks ever!

Divebar · 17/12/2020 06:45

I don’t think it’s resting bitch face - you wouldn’t be seeing it now you would be aware of it already. I do think you spotted her micro expression however I think she’s probably responding to your opinion of her.Perhaps you’re expressing emotions through your micro expressions and she’s aware of your feelings. The fact you undoubtedly love your brother means it’s more likely you shifted the blame for the affair onto the SIL. Is that a possibility?

Wanderlusto · 17/12/2020 06:52

Sizing you up to see if you are a suitable victim. I only really notice it from workplace bullies. Took me a while to spot it but now I'm attuned. Trust your instincts. She does not wish you well. Put distance between you.

Namechangeme87 · 17/12/2020 06:54

Oh god honestly people must think this is me and I swear I’m nice . I have such a moody face , people often say they were scared of me when they first met . It’s just how my face sits at rest not like horrible or anything just not smiley

For example I could be looking across a room at you and I’d prob be thinking something like aww I love what they are wearing I wish I could pull something like that off however If u caught me mid state you’d probably think I was giving u a bitchy look and plotting to come over and deck you 😂