How do you deal with gifts from LC grandparents?

[Crazythursday]

I've been LC with narc DM for 2 years now. Our relationship is pretty damaged and as it stands, I can't see a way it will change or improve. I am still caught up in FOG, but I understand all of that a lot more and can at least recognise and acknowledge it (via therapy).

Our LC consists of cards and presents at Christmas and birthdays, plus the odd random text throughout the year. We live very far away and what with covid, we see her in person very rarely...but I do tend to video on the kids' birthdays when they open presents from her.

It's birthday season here for us and we have received a box of presents for DC. It always makes me feel uneasy.

On the one hand, I can see love (or at least DM's version of it) in the gifts, paper, bows, cards chosen. I can see there is some thought that has gone into them, and that even if they aren't always things the kids would appreciate, she's tried.. And to be fair to her, she barely has any contact with the DC so how could she get it right? And I think that video-calling is the "right" thing to do so that DC can say thank you etc.

On the other hand, it's all weird. Receiving presents when we barely have a relationship feels odd. I don't like the idea of the kids accepting gifts from her when they barely speak to her and haven't known her for the last few years. Somehow it feels like it's teaching them to "take" but not to "give".

I would prefer it if we had a relationship where the kids felt a connection with her properly rather than via "stuff/gifts" twice a year - but at the same time, I don't trust her at all to not manipulate them, so there is no chance of me encouraging that connection.

But I can't tell her to stop sending presents - that just feels callous to her and to the kids. But this "love via material shit" just doesn't sit right.

DM has made a very light attempt to contact the kids directly (they are primary school age) during the last couple of years. I was furious that she wanted to go direct to them without fixing things with me first. And still feel like that is what needs to be done - she fixes things with me, rebuilds my trust, and then I may feel like its appropriate to get closer to the kids, but not before.

I think she knows that I feel obliged to call her to do presents.

Anyway, I'm waffling now... not sure there is an answer but I'm keen to hear how other people handle this time of year if you receive presents from LC relatives.

Same here, I would just let her carry on sending them, it won't be forever, only while they are children.

Much the same situation here but with both Grandparents being dysfunctional - they go around me and try to use the child to get at me. Just let her send the presents and ignore for the rest of the year. it's always a tense time because narcs will do anything to stir up trouble and needle at the happiest of times but you have her number so just duck and dive. Much sympathy from me here - my parents are in Australia so we never see them.

'love via material shit' is what narcs do. They instrumentalise relationships. I've given you this so you must do that etc It's sad but they are limited.

It is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.

Dispose of them, do not give these any more power and do not acknowledge them at all. Gifts too should come with ribbons, not strings, and these come with their own massive lot of obligation. She will keep using presents as a means of contacting them and bypassing you. She does not want you as such, she wants your kids to give her further supply and she will use presents to do that. Its really about control and she's frightened of losing that.

Your mother was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she is really a poor example of a grandmother to your kids too. If a relative is too toxic, difficult or otherwise too batshit for you to deal with, its the SAME deal for your kids too. She will harm your kids in not too dissimilar ways as to how you've been harmed by her. Keep yourselves well away from her going forward too and further lessen all current levels of contact.

Narcissists give gifts with an eye to maintaining a relationship with the giver and to maintaining control in that relationship. You don't get expensive gifts from a narcissist because they think you are awesome; you get valuable gifts because they want you to continue to think that they are awesome

Keep working on your own FOG through therapy. Have a look too at the Out of the FOG website and also consider reading/posting on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages.

Thank you both for understanding (not everyone does!). "instrumentalising relationships" is so so so spot on.

Indeed, I know DM is limited in her ability to resolve this, or even understand the issues. And clearly I cannot control what she does or does not do. I just hate the feeling of doom when I see her parcels arrive, or the emails sent to me for some online/charitable gift thing that the kids just simply don't appreciate.

I think I'm getting stressed as we have a super busy day planned after school for DC, so I am not sure we'll be able to fit in a call to DM.

Would it be awful if I just take photos of present unwrapping and send them?

I really resent taking time out of DC's birthday to invite DM into our otherwise happy day. I feel trapped and obligated by the bloody presents.

Feeling both trapped and obligated is the intention of such unwanted gifts.

Silence is powerful and you do not have to acknowledge these items in any way. You cannot control what she does but you can control what sort of response you give and I would still not acknowledge these items in any way.

I really resent taking time out of DC's birthday to invite DM into our otherwise happy day. I feel trapped and obligated by the bloody presents.

Because that was her intention and you are still jumping through her hoops.

Don’t ruin your own motherhood, polluting your own experience of their birthdays and Xmas by having this shadow on it.

Listen to and honour YOUR feelings. The only person you are keeping happy here is your Narc Mum. Your kids don’t give a fig.

They don’t need this confused and inauthentic charade. They sense that’s what it is. Live honestly.

Do something different this year.

Disconnect and detach further for all your sakes. She will never change.

Are the dc old enough to write some sort of Thank You card instead of an intrusive call?

Just send a thank you card from them like we did in the old days!

Your dc can make a really nice card which means they've put some effort in and you've 'done the right thing'.

I have a narc mother. You have to minimise these moments that actually fuel their narcissism.

Video it and send the video when it suits you. That’s what I do with MIL. No live calls.

@Megan2018

Video it and send the video when it suits you. That’s what I do with MIL. No live calls.

If you choose this option - do it first thing in the morning then block her for the next few days.

Do it a day early or a day late. Say the day was very busy, which it will have been.

The thing is, no matter how shallow her intentions it may well be her best effort.
It obviously depends on the person and their behaviour, but some narcs do feel pain and distress that things aren't working as they want them to. Yes, it's totally unreasonable, but yes, it's real distress.

DM behaves in ways that mean no one likes her or wants to spend time with her. She wants what other people have- but has no idea how to make that happen. Getting token efforts from her children and grandchildren takes the edge off what's otherwise a pretty miserable existence where no one actually cares much about her.

Send a thank you card, a polite one. That's all you need to do to be mannerly.

DM behaves in ways that mean no one likes her or wants to spend time with her. She wants what other people have- but has no idea how to make that happen. yes mine is similar. It's heartbreaking but she just can't maintain a normal reciprocal relationship.

OP, maybe take a look my thread yesterday in 'Elderly Parents' on Toxic mother and her 18 year old grandson ...

No need for a live unwrapping... I don't even do that with my lovely in-laws who live abroad. Just get the kids to send a thank you card

Just send a thank you note - a drawing and wonky letters given their age!

We have gone down the written thank you card route. Works best for us. We also suggested that they sent money rather than gifts so the kids could choose (my parents do this too anyway & they like to do the same so they agreed to that).

To me it sounds like you want to stop this arrangement fully but don’t really know how to do so without it being made a big thing? Apologies if that’s not the case but that’s how I’ve interpreted it (or maybe I’m projecting because whilst I’m not LC with my DP, I resent the millions of gifts they give my DC to hold against me and ofc if I don’t accept them I’m selfish)

In a practical sense could you maybe send a few photos of them opening the gifts this year instead of a video / video calling with a simple ‘thank you for DC presents, they enjoyed them’ type message on the same day. Then next time send 1 photo with a shorter ‘thank you message’ a few days later so you are slowly weaning it off?

Sorry posted too soon! I meant to add that the following year you can send a nice ‘thank you for the presents card’ made by DC with some drawings. And the next time a short straightforward ‘thank you’ card with just their names. A gradual stopping of this may be easier for you to manage

We are very LC with grandparents. They send the children cash for Christmas despite not having bothered to phone or see them in 5 years. We just put the cash in their stockings.

We called. DC wanted to as we’d called other GPs. Gifts were not lavish but quite a lot all in all (ie too much). DM didn’t acknowledge me during the call...

You don't get expensive gifts from a narcissist because they think you are awesome; you get valuable gifts because they want you to continue to think that they are awesome

This is it. Anyone looking in wouldn’t see it that way, and would just see a grandmother treating her GDC... but it really is this.

I wouldn't send a thank you card. Surely that's encouraging her and teaching your children to say thank you to toxic people? Yes they don't know at this age but it wont be long until they work it out.

We’ve always done “thank you photos or video with the present” if the present-giver has not been there in person or via video-calls. Otherwise I don’t usually send TY cards.

So we’ve done our bit now. We called her, she saw her presents being opened, she dragged it out longer than needed but I also have to remember that she doesn’t get much other contact with DC at all.

I cannot cut her off more th