How do you deal with gifts from LC grandparents?

[Crazythursday]

I've been LC with narc DM for 2 years now. Our relationship is pretty damaged and as it stands, I can't see a way it will change or improve. I am still caught up in FOG, but I understand all of that a lot more and can at least recognise and acknowledge it (via therapy).

Our LC consists of cards and presents at Christmas and birthdays, plus the odd random text throughout the year. We live very far away and what with covid, we see her in person very rarely...but I do tend to video on the kids' birthdays when they open presents from her.

It's birthday season here for us and we have received a box of presents for DC. It always makes me feel uneasy.

On the one hand, I can see love (or at least DM's version of it) in the gifts, paper, bows, cards chosen. I can see there is some thought that has gone into them, and that even if they aren't always things the kids would appreciate, she's tried.. And to be fair to her, she barely has any contact with the DC so how could she get it right? And I think that video-calling is the "right" thing to do so that DC can say thank you etc.

On the other hand, it's all weird. Receiving presents when we barely have a relationship feels odd. I don't like the idea of the kids accepting gifts from her when they barely speak to her and haven't known her for the last few years. Somehow it feels like it's teaching them to "take" but not to "give".

I would prefer it if we had a relationship where the kids felt a connection with her properly rather than via "stuff/gifts" twice a year - but at the same time, I don't trust her at all to not manipulate them, so there is no chance of me encouraging that connection.

But I can't tell her to stop sending presents - that just feels callous to her and to the kids. But this "love via material shit" just doesn't sit right.

DM has made a very light attempt to contact the kids directly (they are primary school age) during the last couple of years. I was furious that she wanted to go direct to them without fixing things with me first. And still feel like that is what needs to be done - she fixes things with me, rebuilds my trust, and then I may feel like its appropriate to get closer to the kids, but not before.

I think she knows that I feel obliged to call her to do presents.

Anyway, I'm waffling now... not sure there is an answer but I'm keen to hear how other people handle this time of year if you receive presents from LC relatives.

The relief I feel all year that I have NC and then Christmas comes along and I start to wonder what stunt will be pulled this year, it does fill me with dread if I stop to think about it.
Last year the whole family got sent a Christmas card without my name on it. It was a indicator to me that they seem to think they can contact my children and carry on with shitty behaviour to me (hence the NC) The card went in the bin. Not happening. I have zero tolerance for it.

When I went nc with dm, although it was actually her flounce that ended our contact - she sent boxes of half wrapped gifts via taxi one Xmas.. With a pa note to the dc half arsed apologies that they would have been all wrapped had it not been for me.
I finished wrapping and sent the lot it charity... And I told her so. She sends cheques for the dc now.

Ha Santa, I also got a whole bunch of trashy presents barely wrapped in cheap paper, literally dumped outside my front door for my 6 year old son (when we were in NC period).

10 years later she’s still a nightmare.

Recently gone NC again.

Aerial, how shitty and deliberately hurtful to send such a card.

They are quite mad.

@AttilaTheMeerkat you are right that I am uncomfortable setting boundaries..... I think you have my sibling wrong though, they've been NC for 2 years and are definitely not under FOG - literally have no interest in being in touch with her.

I went through all of the parcels with DH, and can see now that the presents are probably ok. There's a few more than I would say is needed but DH is right when he says its no more than if we were seeing them f2f. I feel a bit calmer and a little ashamed of my automatic reaction to see DM in a bad light.

Though I can't help that. The trust has deteriorated, so I don't feel anything she does is genuine.

He thinks "bait" is again too harsh, but I will keep this in mind. I think it's spot on.

I think like you say, OP, your DH is supportive but he hasn't been through it. I really think that you can listen and appreciate the support of other people but when it comes to decisions about things which will affect your dc, you must trust your own judgement, and in relation to your DM and presents make up your mind, then explain it to your DH and tell him what you think needs to be done and see if you he can understand.

I have a suggestion. Unwrap all the presents, have a good look at them and then put them in a bag and put them in a cupboard. Enjoy Christmas without the presents and see how you feel a few days after Christmas. If you and the family are feeling free and happy, and you all enjoyed Christmas without the presents, give the presents away and just do a simple thank you letter from you to your DM.

If this were anyone else other than DM you wouldn't feel manipulative about teaching your dc how to deal with them. If this was someone at school who played games with people's feelings you would be giving your dc advice about how to deal with it.

My sibling who is also NC with DM, plus DH both think I'm being a bit harsh. And that it's normal for a GP to want to spoil DC at Christmas and birthdays. This has thrown me. They are not fans of DM at all, so it's not like they would sympathise with her easily.

Your sibling here is not acting in your interests at all by thinking of you as being a bit harsh. This person has their own agenda.

I am not surprised you have problems in setting boundaries; your mother's really encouraged you not to have any. You even find it hard to assert your feelings to your H; a man who never grew up thankfully within such a toxic environment.

I would still dispose of all these items she has sent you; your DC do not really want them and these are being given more headspace and power by you than is necessary. Radio silence from you needs to be maintained; what such people like your mother want is a response and even a nicely worded thank you letter from the DC is a response and that to her is the "reward". I would urge you not to acknowledge these in any way.

It is NOT possible to have a relationship with a narcissist; always remember this truism.

CrazyThursday

You don’t get expensive gifts from a narcissist because they think you are awesome; you get valuable gifts because they want you to continue to think that they are awesome.

It’s normal to want to show affection for significant others with nice gifts, or to splurge on holidays or nice meals, but we don’t offer these gifts to engender obligation or foster obedience from our partners. But narcissists give out of fear and out of their need to continue the game.

Philanthropists are encouraged to “give until it hurts,” but narcissists give because it hurts. The potential pain of losing their audience drives them to do what they feel will keep the admiration flowing hence those "gifts" to your DC. Your mother wants your kids as a further source of supply; they being very young are not aware of just how manipulative she actually is and she only cares about her own self.

My sibling isn’t a parent so doesn’t get those aspects of it. Ironically it seems DM contacted them today.... it’s all sibling’s fault, dm is blameless, she would never intentionally hurt us, something must be influencing us against her it can’t possibly be her behavior alone.... She is desperate to say that our dad brainwashed us against her. She doesn’t quite dare say it yet, I can tell that is what she wants to say. Sibling has told her to leave well alone. But always was a bit more black and white than me.

Dm will get a thank you photo at Xmas. I cannot bring myself to ditch the gifts. Next year I’ll handle it differently and maintain that the kids have quite enough stuff thank you very much and that if she wants to get anything, cash would go down well.

No to a photo, why would you want to send her one of these?. That’s your FOG talking here.

Would reconsider not ditching the gifts as well.

Just dont do anything.
No thank you. No photo. No response. Nothing.
Give her no audience.
Why wait another year?

You're playing the game with a photo. She still has you hooked. It's all a big power game.

I guess in my head I’m being polite and it’s a way of gradually cutting down on contact. Yet I also don’t want to hurt her.

It’s all very messed up so I totally get that it’s actually all BS, and I’m as disingenuous as her by sending it. I get that. But I don’t want to be cruel.

I had guessed that your sibling doesn’t have children - so they therefore are incapable of feeling the deep visceral pain of the trap your DM has placed you in with your DCs.

Your own feelings are 100% valid. They don’t get diluted, minimised, eroded or JADED by anyone else. I don’t think that your sibling has a negative agenda - just that they don’t have your personal maternal experience - so their opinion on your children doesn’t get to overshadow yours. Again I don’t think they intended to do this just that you allow others opinions to direct your feelings.

Again with your DH - he hasn’t experienced a Narc mother - he also hasn’t done the research on the scope and scale of their dysfunction and how to stem the inter generational bleed of their toxicity.

It’s unusual when you sad you felt guilt for immediately seeing her in a bad light - why? This is exactly how you should see absolutely everything that she does. That’s why both her children are NC. That’s who she is - emotionally dangerous. The gifts are just a provocation and a hoovering tactic to drag you back into punching distance.

Don’t do it to yourself. Trust YOUR gut.

Open

Thank you cards

Job done

Being polite to narcs is not a survival strategy.

Ignoring and not thanking someone for things you don’t want and for boundaries trashed - is not cruel - it’s emotionally balanced and assertive.

You are right it is disingenuous. Be authentic to yourself. Be proud and confident in your own values - that you are emotionally protecting your self and your children.

It's not cruel to protect yourself. Her feelings are not above yours.
I dont think she would feel hurt, more angry that you're not playing the dutiful daughter how she has trained you to be. You have dropped out of the game.

Basically you are thanking her for being abusive to you. Going through your children is continuing the emotional abuse. It is a link to you.

We have been trained from a young age to be polite, even when someone is hurting you. Your feelings dont matter, you always do as you are told

You don't have to do that anymore.

Argh I do understand what you’re saying. It’s logical and makes sense on lots of levels.

I will trust my gut though.

My senses are on high alert at the mo anyway, I suspect there will be some kind of rage coming soon. My sibling got it today, and it hasn’t ended how DM wanted so I imagine there will be some more headed my way within the next week or so.

I don’t mind the rages now, it just solidifies things for me. With each one I withdraw a bit more and it confirms that that’s the right thing to do.

Why would you choose the accept the emotional violence of her rage?

What is stopping you blocking, distancing and protecting yourself?

It’s not helpful to your family life for you to be ready to absorb and endure this assaults.

Your hyper vigilance is preoccupying and draining you mentally.

I have put up a barrier. I’m working on making it thicker but you are right that I’m still under the FOG.

I doubt myself sometimes (is she really that bad? Does she deserve this?) so if she has a hissyfit, I’m ok with that as it reminds me that I shouldn’t doubt myself. It doesn’t hurt anymore, in fact I find it quite amusing. But when there are long gaps between a rage, I start to “forget” why we’re in this middle. So keeping in touch means there will inevitably be a rage at some point, which reassures me. Fucked up eh?

I don’t want to be the baddie. I don’t want to be judged by others for “treating her badly” even if I know I’m just protecting myself. They don’t know the full story and I don’t want to have to justify it. Even though part of me doesn’t care, but I suppose I’m so unsure of myself generally o can’t bear the idea of thinking I’ve got all this wrong (she did love you, she was just feisty... you’ve really hurt her, she wasn’t that bad).

Maybe I still hope for it all to be resolved. I know deep down it won’t be, but how do you let go of that hope? I know she won’t change, she is who she is. I can say out loud that I don’t like her very much. But perhaps I want her to admit she’s behaved appallingly. Even though I know she won’t.

Maybe I’m scared my kids will think that being bc with your dm is normal and do the same with me.

But your questions have made me realize that it’s the weirdness in between rages that I actually find most uncomfortable. The rages are ok. The random contact bothers me.

I probably need to go back to therapy eh?

People in this situation sometimes send a thank you note or similar as a "LC" as opposed to NC while dc are young, because NC can inflame the situation, and dc then might be more negatively affected.

OP you need to do what is right for you, but another way to try to get your head round it is to imagine your dm doing to your dc at any time what she did to you.