Good boundaries or plain avoidance. I can't tell. Please help.

[GreenManOnTheWall]

I started seeing someone a couple of months ago. We bubbled as neither of us was already in one.

Something doesn't feel right and I don't know if its because my boundaries are getting better or whether its because I'm just avoidant but something just doesn't feel right.
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He's quite complimentary. Not OTT but he has said nice things about me. They're nice to hear at the time but afterwards it just doesn't sit right with me. He said last night that there are many things he thinks are wonderful about me but that just feels insincere. I'm not curious about what they are. I just changed the conversation. I don't want to hear it.

I feel like I'm on a girlfriend conveyor belt and he's saying nice things about me because that's what you do and he's said it all 1000 times rather than because he means it (they include personal to me compliments and not just generic ones). I feel I'm in a mental line up with his exes. It feels a bit contrived.

We had a brief exchange last night when he made an obviously joke compliment and I joked back it was my best quality which led onto a brief chat about what we did actually like best about ourselves. He told me a couple of genuine things but then added that he often received compliments on his smile and his cock.

I wouldn't tell him about compliments previous men had paid me if they had. I don't know if it was a joke. Or if he was fishing for a compliment or if he was putting me in my place. He's only been lovely to me.

Am I picking up on something or am I avoidant?

You find the “generic” compliments annoying. You find the specific, insightful ones annoying too.

The generic ones are insincere and the specific ones feel insincere.

He's saying stuff that isn't warranted and doesn't apply.

As others have said, you don't need a concrete reason for ending any relationship if it doesn't feel right. Don't compromise just because he has some good points, the unsettled feelings you have are enough to not want to spend any more time with him. Also everything he says now you are not taking at face value and looking for other meanings. One thing I thought of is that you both sound low in self-esteem. You because all his compliments are being dismantled and mulled over and him because the compliments he's giving you and the compliments that other women have given him sound like he's desperate for you to tell him he's an ok bloke. Also I wonder if girlfriends in the past have told him that women like to be complimented and he doesn't know when to stop? MN has loads of threads about 'he never tells me I look nice' etc.

I've only read your messages OP, and you should end this relationship if that's what you want. The comments about his cock and the porn star shoes just sound a bit if a joke to me, I wouldn't be offended. I wouldn't even remember them enough to comment on a forum about them, but you are offended and shouldn't be with someone who you obviously don't get on with.

You don't like being complimented , and you don't like not being complimented. You've drew a line through generic and specific compliments and categorise them as they come in. It all sounds convoluted and hard work tbh. I know I sound judgemental, but will you ever be comfortable with anyone? Honestly?. I do think you could benefit from some counselling.

He doesn't seem to lack in self esteem...

Also I wonder if girlfriends in the past have told him that women like to be complimented and he doesn't know when to stop?

His compliments weren't OTT so it's not that he didn't know when to stop. But, yes, I do think he's got the idea that compliments are what women like and men do.

I felt that his talking about other women and compliments other women have paid him were about keeping me at a distance.

Or, at least, that was the impact. I don't really get jealous and wouldn't seek to 'win' or prove myself. So, if it were for that reason, it backfired.

You don't like being complimented , and you don't like not being complimented. You've drew a line through generic and specific compliments and categorise them as they come in. It all sounds convoluted and hard work tbh. I know I sound judgemental, but will you ever be comfortable with anyone? Honestly?

I suppose I want someone to be genuinely attracted to me but I don't need to be told. I don't like having attention drawn to myself. He complimented me on a couple of things I'm quite self conscious about and it was excruciating.

I dont think i would be comfortable with anyone tbh. Not now. I'm too old.

You want to feel admired, safe, loved, but you want to feel this through non verbal communication. This sounds like intimacy to me. You want intimacy, but you also avoid it. It sounds as though you are very far from that with your current partner, he talks to other women a lot , you think he views you as "the current girlfriend".

It sounds like you are looking for congruence as well, this sounds like an attribute you would admire from a partner, and one your current dp may never have?

Sally665

Thanks. That was really helpful. Yes, I guess I do want intimacy. But I do avoid it.

I've never had a long term, loving, intimate relationship. I can't really imagine what one would look like!

If I'm honest, I think I'm probably better off sticking to the emotionless short term sexual relationship model! I know where I am with those.

I want someone to stroke my hair and kiss my forehead and make me a cup of tea and hug me. Stuff like that. Not someone who is going to tell me I'm sexy

I mean, obviously, I want sex too. But I want it with someone who actually cares about me and thinks I'm special. Not just someone who gets a boner because I'm in the same room and he's thinking about sex.

I want someone to stroke my hair and kiss my forehead and make me a cup of tea and hug me. Stuff like that. Not someone who is going to tell me I'm sexy hmm
Why can't you have both? You're assuming because he's attracted to you and enjoys sex with you you're just another faceless hole on his score chart. It's possible to enjoy sex AND care deeply about someone.

O mean if you ask for a hug and he tells you he'd rather give you a fuck then that's not great but a good relationship is a balance and intimacy is about more than looking after you

Why can't you have both? You're assuming because he's attracted to you and enjoys sex with you you're just another faceless hole on his score chart

I've never had both!

I guess I did assume that. You're right.

My relationships have either been sweet or sexual or just companionship. I don't know how to have or find the balance. I'd rather someone just be upfront about it being just sex than dress it up with the facade of "I like you too." That always makes me feel a bit 'taken advantage of'.

He did hug me. Quite a lot actually. But it always felt tainted by the other stuff

There's an episode of Friends where one of them is reminded of their girlfriend's exes because they all gave her dogs and when he sees the dogs, all he can see is her ex boyfriends lounging about the place (I didnt really watch it, I dont know the details). Well the comments made it feel a bit like that. Like the room was always crowded and full of other women. Exes, female friends etc.

Anyway, he read my message but hasn't replied.

I'm not sure what message you wrote, bit honestly I think you need to work on learning what a healthy relationship is.

I enjoy sex with DH. Or grabbing his bum as he walks up stairs. He likes the top that shows off my boobs. But we still sit on the sofa and just hold hands whilst watching telly or wali Ng down the road. He still hugs me on bed when I'm worrying about the kids even tho it's ruined the mood for any sex that night. You want two sides of the coin.

Why do you assume if someone tells you they like you that they're doing it to mess you around?

@GreenManOnTheWall

You find the “generic” compliments annoying. You find the specific, insightful ones annoying too.

The generic ones are insincere and the specific ones feel insincere.

He's saying stuff that isn't warranted and doesn't apply.

Like what?

I felt that his talking about other women and compliments other women have paid him were about keeping me at a distance. I know it fell flat but I think the cock comment was meant to be funny. Warrants an eye roll, a comment that leads to you being reminded just how good his cock is, or a joke about yes, it is very ^cute^ with a laigh. Not an "omg he's had sex with other women I bet he's thinking of those other women in just another woman I'm a notch I bet he compares me to them I wonder if he thinks about them when we have sex I can't believe I'm just a fuck to him"

I can't remember really! Stuff like I look really cute when i pull a certain facial expression or that I have a nice bum. Stuff that no one has ever said before and so it felt a bit insincere and I don't want to be told I look cute and my bum is horrible!

Stuff like he appreciated the effort I made for him etc, that was ok. He knew my life was busy and I don't have loads of free time so he appreciated me making time to see him. He said.

Why do you assume if someone tells you they like you that they're doing it to mess you around?

I don't know. I just can't imagine anyone actually liking me? I can't imagine having good sex with someone who also values me as a person? It feels degrading so I can't see the two going hand in hand? Men will say anything to get in your knickers?

I'm always anxious during sex if i have feelings for someone so i dont tend to mix the two. I'd rather someone was just upfront about wanting to have sex with me but it not being anything else.

I have an ex boyfriend who i really liked. Really liked. I was awkward and uncomfortable with him. I ended it. We remained friends and, after a couple of months we started flirting with each other and progressed to having sex. Getting back together/feelings were never discussed but the sex was far better than it had been when we were together because I was more comfortable. That went on for a few months and eventually just fizzled out. We're still really good friends though.

SleepingStandingUp

You've summed up my response pretty well.

So you actually like him op? I mean like like?

Is the sex awkward because you like like him or is the sex good because you aren't letting yourself like him?

What did you put in the message?

I don't know!

I suppose I did/could have if i hadn't felt so sidelined by some of the things he said.

I don't care about someone having a past - I don't want to be reminded of it quite so much.

I just told him that i wouldn't be going over this weekend and that I didn't see it working out between us so best to leave it here really.

Is the sex awkward because you like like him or is the sex good because you aren't letting yourself like him?

Hm. I felt awkward because I felt like he was just saying/doing nice stuff so that I'd have sex with him? And that anything i did would be appraised by him as not being as good as when X, Y or Z did it. Or it would be fine if I were as attractive/fit as X, Y or Z. First and foremost. I wouldnt let myself like like him because of that other stuff. I wouldnt say thebsex itself was awkward but it certainly wasnt as relaxed as it could have been.

I feel a fool if I make an effort with my appearance but also feel inadequate if I don't. I can't win and neither can he. Or any man.

Are there a lot of women out there who like being called "sexy"? And having their bum complimented, or being asked to wear "porn shoes"?

I find it a total turn-off. To me, the sort of man that makes those comments flits from one woman to another all too easily, and the thing that those women have in common is that he has sex with them. Hence the "compliments" relating to sex.

But most women find it quite easy to find a man to have sex with (its finding a man they're attracted to have sex with thats more tricky) - most men find a huge number of women "sexy". Its such a generic comment because it should be guaranteed that if you're having sex with someone, you find them sexy. You don't need to say it out loud.

So to me that would say its the sex thats more important to him than the person he's having sex with. And I do find that men who have had a lot of sexual partners are like this. I find all of that off-putting.

A compliment, thoughtfully given, is a delight. But constant comments about sex and your sexual attractiveness aren't really compliments at all, they're just making him happy that he's having sex.

But Green he's also given her compliments about her being thoughtful, telling her she's cute when she pulled a funny face (so not sexual) and other personal not generic stuff. Op still doesn't like it because she doesn't believe anyone believes that.

Any my husband telling me my bum is cute doesn't mean he's going around screwing other women, in fact we meet make in life and he'd had fewer sexual partners than me. It just means my bum is cute

Have you spoke to him about the comments he makes (porn shoes etc) and told him you don't like it?

I once dated someone who made a really dirty comment, when we first met. I immediately told him I didn't appreciate it. It never happened again.

It reads like: no one would ever like me as a person and if someone likes you, you go right off them. Good sex feels degrading. Oh OP, there’s quite lot going on here.

I also think you need to look at how quickly you have sex. Not cos I think it matters GENERALLY but I think if you wait until you know they're there because they like YOU before you have sex it might show he's not just doing it for sex at the end of the date. Any guy who tries to pressure you is an immediate bin off anyway. But men do like good sex with women they find intelligent, funny, interesting, caring etc.

I just can't imagine anyone actually liking me? I can't imagine having good sex with someone who also values me as a person? It feels degrading so I can't see the two going hand in hand? Men will say anything to get in your knickers?

OP there's about a year's worth of therapy in unpacking this paragraph alone!

"I can't imagine anybody liking me" - what's at the root of your low self-esteem? If you really believe this it makes sense that you'll keep pushing people away, consciously or not.

The disjoint in your mind between sex and respect - it's been hinted at in this thread but you spelled it out here. You know it's not meant to be like that? Sex isn't inherently degrading. However...

I'm always anxious during sex if i have feelings for someone so i dont tend to mix the two.

I do know what you mean and I've been there. In my case acknowledging my feelings about the power dynamic in sex was key - because a part of me thought it was a power play and wanted to be in control. It was much easier to do that with ONSs and men I felt nothing for.

You definitely seem aware of the power dynamic - the default assumption that men will say anything to get it, as if sex is a battlefield between men and women, and if you give it to them - especially along with any emotions - you've lost and they've won. (And what does winning look like for you? What, in your mind, is good sex?)

I do know what you mean and I've been there. In my case acknowledging my feelings about the power dynamic in sex was key - because a part of me thought it was a power play and wanted to be in control. It was much easier to do that with ONSs and men I felt nothing for.

Gosh, yes, you've articulated exactly what I couldn't! It's the power dynamic.

If I have feelings or am supposed to be a girlfriend, I feel like they hold the power. They have the power to hurt me. They might be thinking things about me that would upset me if I knew.

If it's just sex, then I don't care what they think about me and I assume that if the sex wasnt what they wanted, they wouldn't bother.

I'm far more confident when it's just about sex. I flirt more; I'm a more 'sexual' being. I feel that at least then we're both being honest with each other. That's why sex with my ex worked so much better than when we were together because I no longer cared if he thought I was attractive or fancied me or if he was looking at me wishing I were slimmer, more attractive etc. I felt sexy and attractive and that was all that counted.

I think men are inherently dishonest.

And what does winning look like for you? What, in your mind, is good sex?

Sex without emotion or expectation; sex that is fun; sex that is satisfying. Sex where i feel confident and enjoy giving and receiving rather than worrying about what I look like or what they think of me. I can't reconcile sex with being loving tbh.

It's almost like I can provide the 'girlfriend experience'. I can appear loving and thoughtful. I can play the part and be affectionate etc but it only works if my feelings towards them are neutral.

I haven't ever seen it so clearly before.

what's at the root of your low self-esteem?

A lifetime of stuff, tbh.

It's one of the reasons I haven't been for therapy. There so much. And it's all intertwined like old balls of wool.

This man didn't pressure me for sex at all.

A compliment, thoughtfully given, is a delight. But constant comments about sex and your sexual attractiveness aren't really compliments at all, they're just making him happy that he's having sex.

The compliments weren't all, or even mostly sexual. But I dont like them because it makes me feel noticed and I'd rather feel unnoticed.

I know loads of women who like to be told they're sexy or have a nice bum by their boyfriends.

I think I just feel more comfortable if there's a clear line between sex and feelings.

Can I ask how old you are op? Are you looking for a forever partner, marriage, kids?