are long term relationships & marriages past their societal sell buy date

[Princessleila86]

so having read a lot of threads on here and in my own experiences it seems a lot of marriages / long term relationships just aren't working like they used to

there seems to be an enormous amount of discontentment in todays society/relationships and im really starting to question whether a finding a partner and getting married is actually the be all and end all of achievement in life
( which is how its been sold for donkeys years)

how do people realistically stay together for 20/30/40 years without driving each other mental !?! or the attraction dwindling or sex becoming stale and boring (which it almost inevitably will over the duration)

and its all very well and good just saying ah yea well we do it for the kids but that doesn't do anything to stem the individual discontentment

there seems to be too many alternative options / ideas and fantasys at the moment for anything to truly last more than a few years

perhaps i am just being sceptical but looking around me i cant really see one relationship that's stood the test of time and the people in it can honestly say they are as happy as the day they met .......even the ones who portray it to be all sunshine and roses in public seem to have cracks showing underneath the façade

Crikey OP - 53 and I'm labelled 'the older generation'. I've been married for 30 years but I like to think that as a full time worker, payer of taxes, politically aware and parent of two young adults that I'm still relevant. I certainly don't think my marriage is any kind of measure of success - although I am proud of the family we raised and I don't think either of us would have achieved some of the other things we've done without the support of the other. Long term relationship is not a cop out, and it certainly isn't about settling for second best .

I think people in general are unhappier due to societal things like social media, incompetent governments, stagnant wages, housing crisis, poor healthcare systems, over population, pollution, lack of jobs, lack of education and that unhappiness leads to relationships breaking down. It’s no coincidence that the number one thing that couples argue over is money. Money is the only thing that cushions you from the negative impacts of the list above.

I don’t think it’s a marriage thing, I think all of society seems to be upset about something or other, Brexit, Politicians, Covid lockdown, strictly, etc etc, social media now gives everyone a chance to rant

On a societal level I think it is much more accepted to get divorced, it's not a big thing anymore. That said, I would hate it, nobody in either of a families has ever split so maybe your view depends on the relationships you've witnessed.
On an individual level I think it is very much dependent on what you expect from marriage.
I for example, am 37 have been very happily married for 19 years, my parents for 41 years and my in laws were married for 59 before father in law passed away.
We both went in to marriage with a good understanding of the compromise sometimes required in a marriage.
We are still very happy and most of the time can't believe things we still giggle about were nearly 20 years ago. That isn't to say we always see eye to eye or that we haven't had the odd rough patch but at the end of the day neither of us could imagine life without the other.

I don't think you know much recent history if you think 30/40 years ago divorce was taboo.
In fact starting out in the 80's it was all about having a career first and and a man second. There certainly was no societal norm of settling down young, or striving for marriage. Or indeed staying in an unhappy marriage.
I"ve been married 30 years, very few friends of our age are still on their first marriage.

I'm young and it's very possible I won't ever get married. I want to be financially independent, have an amazing career, enjoy my own company and put copious effort into my hobbies and skills. Sadly a lot of men these days still think the wifey should be running round taking on every responsibility while he uses the fact that he works as an excuse to not do anything (despite the fact that she works too). So I don't see marriage as very compatible with the life I want to live. It's done, obviously, lots of women are married to men who treat them as an equal, but it is the minority.

I think finding a man who is genuinely not sexist and falling in love and marrying him is like winning the lottery; it would add value to my life and be amazing if it happened, but I don't need it to live a wonderful life and I refuse to settle for anything less. So yeah, I think as women become more and more independent and men continue to stagnate less marriages will happen.

I think a lot of people stay together because maybe they think that's what they are meant to do or is expected of them. But I think this trend is decreasing with young people and society expectations are changing.

Divorce has been acceptable for a very long time now!
Both my sets of grandparents were divorced/separated, and if they were alive, they'd all be late-70s to late 90s!!

OP i cant help but think you're projecting your own assumptions on to society.

I think perhaps you assumed marriage was lifes end goal and have now realised it isnt.

Most people dont think it is, certainly not most independent / non-religious types.

Marriage is just a choice in life, rather than an achievement.

And it will remain relevant for legal reasons and the legal protections it affords stay at home parents and surviving widows. If the legal protections disappear, it perhaps may decline in popularity further for the percentage who marry for the legal protections (and tax breaks for low earners).

DH & I have been together over 20 years since Uni & married for 15years. We're still very happy & in love. I know several apparently happy marriages & several not so happy ones. Most of the unhappy ones tend to have been together only a few years so not sure what that says?
My thoughts are that as divorce is more acceptable & people can rightly choose not to stay in unhappy relationships they leave - However, I do think this can lead to unrealistic expectations of prospective partners & relationships/marriage.
I know of a few single people who's list of attributes for a partner are completely unrealistic & they won't compromise. Whilst I get you want what's best for you, relationships are about two people & compromise is part of what makes it work.

30/40 years ago ending a marriage because of discontentment or for any reason was very much tabooed
My mother divorced my dad in 1973 and wasn't stigmatised in some way. Her mother, my grandmother, divorced my grandfather in 1960. They both divorced because they just didn't get on with their partners any more and wanted something else.
I'm not sure you really have a great historical overview here OP.

I think long term relationships have ups and downs. It often seems to me (in a relationship for over 30 years) that people duck out of relationships during the down periods. I don't condemn them for that. There is a lot to be said for striving for happiness, and not wasting your life. But I think if some of those couples had hung on in there, they would have experienced an upturn eventually.

My relationship isn't all that exciting or hearts and flowers, I am happy to admit that. But it is comfortable and supportive. The thought of starting all over again with someone new is frankly exhausting.

I would say the differences in attitude are more to do with the fact that people often live together wiithout marrying now, and thus break up and get new partners more often in general, so we are more used to it.
And people live longer - ten years longer on average than in 1970 - and are more likely to still be fit longer. So there they are, not physically relying on a partner and looking to a long future with them. Enough to make you dream about splitting up!

I don't think marriage as an institution will vanish any time soon, no.

I've been married over 20 years. I barely know anyone who is divorced, and most friends and family seem pretty content in their marriages. As we've grown together, and weathered storms, we need each other more not less. It may not be as exciting as a new relationship, but knowing that you have someone in your corner is lovely and a great support.

I barely knew anyone who was divorced when I'd been married 20 years. I was the first. Then everyone else followed! When you reach about 45 it's like an epidemic.

I think you have a point.

Marriage makes sense if you want to raise kids, share living costs etc When that phase of life is less key (uni etc) you could go your separate ways or re-evaluate. We all change so it’s a miracle really if you still get on at that point.

Having said that if you get there and still get on you’ve got an ally/best friend that is like gold dust.

Sex is complicated as needs change and that might not be at the same time. Hence the million threads 😬

My grandparents got divorced 57 years ago without stigma. It's not some new thing!

@ReallySpicyCurry

Eh? You've an odd view of things OP. Lots of people want fulfilling long term relationships for reasons which don't have anything to do with past social expectations.

My parents are both under 60 and very happily married, though by Christ they've had some rows at times. They got married after having me too so not particularly old fashioned.

I'm happily married so far.

I do think the role of women in marriage has not necessarily changed for the better. There are lots of younger men coming up who seem to believe a woman should work full time AND keep house and raise children as though she were still a SAHM. I'm not sure how they've managed to get this notion into their heads, but it doesn't seem an improvement from some of the older men in my family and community, who hold some extremely old fashioned notions about women, but who at least acknowledge that housework and childcare doesn't get done by invisible fucking fairies

I agree with this A lot more women work full time now and in my experience although my husband was not an arse I still had to organise the shared responsibility and the reality was I did more of the house and child stuff.

I think marriage will disappear because young men are unwilling to commit. My daughters are in their 20’s and it seems every man want a well paid high achieving wife who will also do most of the childcare and housework, whilst also looking like a model and acting like a porn star in bed.

And laughing at the posts who think people get divorced because "they want a bit of excitement".

@Princessleila86

but you have completely different values instilled in you from a time that no longer exists

In my case this isn’t true. My parents were serial divorcees, my siblings all divorced.

It just so happens that dh and I make each other happy so we stay together.

I think if you're of the view that getting married is an achievement, you’re probably not in a position to make an objective judgement on whether it’s fit for purpose as a concept or not.

I think we're going through a time of changes and eventually it will settle. I hope that what we'll end up with is a world where there is no longer a generation of men who have been raised to expect their partners to step back from their careers, take on all the domestic burdens and still be perfectly groomed, coiffed and slim. Yes, I know that sounds bitter, but there are still so many men leaving their wives for wife 2.0 - same type, just 20 years younger and with no kids. Right now there are still too many people who don't see marriage as a relationship of equals and now that (mostly) women aren't putting up with that, of course marriages break down. The whole nature of long term relationships has to change - on both sides.

In my real life most people I know around my age have been in a long term relationship (mostly married) for decades. Most younger people I know (over late twenties / thirties) are also in LTR or married. The older people I know who are on their second marriage all got divorced when quite young, and their current marriage has been much longer lasting.

On here I read of many break ups and divorces but that's not surprising since people don't tend to post about their happy / happyish relationship.

Also read of many abusive men but most I know, and have known in the past, are perfectly decent human beings.

I'm not sure how representative Mumsnet is. It's certainly not representative of the people I know - I assume because only people in particular circumstances ate going to be posting. So you can't extrapolate that LTRs / marriages won't exist in the future. It's clear there is a huge urge for many people to be part of a committed relationship. It's not some weird out of date life choice, though obviously not everyone does partner up and marry. We have single, older, never married people among our extended family and friends.