How long would you wait?

[EvelynSalt]

Wise hive mind of Mumsnet, I'm crap at life management and I need your advice.

At 34, how long would you stay with someone (that you adore, makes you laugh, is supportive etc) before you make the call to leave if they don't propose?

I'm getting ever more conscious of my age. I want to have children; I have endometriosis so no idea how easy / possible it will be anyway. I've taken on board lots of advice from Mumsnet and friends' experiences and recognise that it's sensible to get married before children, where possible, for many reasons (no judgment at all of those who have made alternative choices, I recognise it's not right for everyone).

We have discussed life plans and both want children (although he is more of the "at some point" school of thought). He wasn't too bothered about marriage, but isn't against it, so to speak. It's just not something he's thought about much as he's never got to a point with someone where it has become a talking point.

We have been together 1.5 years and live together. I know this isn't long at all, in the grand scheme of things, but in the context of age, how much longer would you wait before you decided he just doesn't want to propose?

I'm really struggling to clear my thoughts on this...stay with someone I love and risk it ending further down the line, if he decides he doesn't want to marry me? Or leave him, in the hope that I meet someone I love as deeply who wants to marry and have children, all within the next 6 years?

I have brought it up recently and he, quite rightly, says it's a serious decision and he's not there yet. I would never want to push someone into such a big life choice so I've respected his position and left it there. But where I'm struggling is, at what point do I raise it in a more finite way? As in, I need to know when or if this is going to happen.

Rambling post, sorry - thanks for reading if you made it this far!

@ravenmum

1.5 years is quite early to ask someone to commit. But it's not early to tell someone that your biological clock is ticking and you are going to be making some big decisions next year which may or may not involve him.

This is a sensible way of thinking about it in my book.

@ EvelynSalt

I agree with you about having a time frame of 6 months to have a 'make or break' discussion.

I also agree that it may well take you longer to conceive, given your endometriosis.

But I think it would be a mistake to suddenly, in 6 months time, to spring the whole 'make or break' discussion on him as you will have had 6 whole months to think about it, but he will have had no time to fully consider the whole idea.

I think he would feel very pressured under the circumstances, and may make a rash decision.

Do you think it might be better to give him the same time frame to fully consider what he wants ?

Is this the man you want to spend the rest of your life with?

Or Is he a man you want to marry and have children with?

What if he doesn't want to marry?
What if you can't have children?
What if he can't have children?

Would you accept those things and love him forever or is he just there to be married when to give you children?

@Aquamarine1029 is right. Getting engaged doesn’t mean a whole lot, especially if he just does it to pacify you so you can buy a property together. Buying a property is a bigger commitment than getting engaged, as the engagement can be broken off in moments with nothing other than words. Don’t buy together until you are married. In terms of the wanting kids thing, don’t wait. There will always be a reason why you don’t want to have the conversation just yet.

@Gyh863

Do you think you already know the answer deep down? And that's why you are posting?

You should just know I think if it's the kind of love that leads to marriage. There's been more than enough time for that, those kind of relationships move quickly and you can't get enough of each other.

I think this After 1.5 years there must be something going on for him to know if it's marriage or not Maybe he's not saying cos doesn't want to lose you

@Newwayofthinking

Is this the man you want to spend the rest of your life with?

Or Is he a man you want to marry and have children with?

What if he doesn't want to marry?
What if you can't have children?
What if he can't have children?

Would you accept those things and love him forever or is he just there to be married when to give you children?

I want to spend my life with him. Marriage is a commitment to that and I would like the same in return...I guess that's why anyone gets married. Good question about children - if he couldn't have children then I wouldn't leave him because of it, it's out of his control as it would be for me if I'm infertile

@updownroundandround

@ EvelynSalt

I agree with you about having a time frame of 6 months to have a 'make or break' discussion.

I also agree that it may well take you longer to conceive, given your endometriosis.

But I think it would be a mistake to suddenly, in 6 months time, to spring the whole 'make or break' discussion on him as you will have had 6 whole months to think about it, but he will have had no time to fully consider the whole idea.

I think he would feel very pressured under the circumstances, and may make a rash decision.

Do you think it might be better to give him the same time frame to fully consider what he wants ?

Really good point. I think maybe after new year and after I get the fertility assessment results, I'll have a conversation to give him an idea of my timeframe. A previous poster made a good suggestion on how to word this and I've put it in my notes so I don't forget (if I apply a work mentality to this it seems much easier!)

This is going to be so hard if we have to end things. I adore him.

I your position I wouldn't wait at all.
It took me over a year to conceive my second DC. I was 5 years younger than you are now and had no health issues. These things can take time for some people.
You've been together 18 months and your biological clock is ticking, it's more than reasonable to have a full and frank discussion right now. Does he want kids with you in the near future, yes or no.

why don't you propose to him?

If he sidesteps or declines, tell him you're moving on.

1.5 years and living together? He will know.

Ask him straight to give it to you straight.

Honestly, your 30's are precious dont let him waste another 6 months of your life if he is not interested.

Things are different for us women once we get over 35 when it comes to child bearing, an unfortunate but biological fact.

It's a fair question at 34 and after 1.5 years plus living together. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by having this as a clear and honest conversation, hard though it might be.

Best Wishes OP

Also - in terms of worrying about losing 'Him' by having this conversation - remember you are risking more than that by Not having the conversation about children sooner than later.

@LilyWater

After 1.5 years together you would know whether that person is someone you would want to marry. I assuming you do, which is why you made this post, so why should he be any different? If someone has doubts at this stage, that in itself is telling. Men know early on whether the woman they're with is the one for them. Those who delay and complain about 'pressure' at this stage are simply biding time with you to see if something better comes along.

The bigger problem is that you've given over all power to him by moving in and acting like a wife already, all the while waiting on him to propose and dangle you on a string in the meantime while you stay on 'good behaviour '. By moving in together, you've communicated to him that you're happy to stay with him as an unmarried live-in girlfriend. I'd be moving straight out if I were you and let him know he can take as long as he needs to decide but you don't feel comfortable living together if he's unsure about you. NB: DEFINITELY leave within 6 months if he hasn't proposed. You're in real danger of running out of time if you already have an existing fertility problem on top of the normal age consideration.

This is the perfect post. If a man wants to marry you he will, if he is stalling it's because he doesn't want to. Your want for a family is too big to put into the hands of someone else.

I your position I wouldn't wait at all.

I agree completely. I wouldn't wait for the weekend to hash this out, nevermind waiting for next year. He is stringing you along and you don't have the luxury of waiting. You have a distinct advantage that you have your own home in case you need to end the relationship. There is no legitimate reason to wait. If he wants to marry you he should know by now.

I'm really surprised by the consensus that he's stringing me along. I've seen so many posts on MN where women have been told they've moved too quickly in a relationship. I honestly thought a year and a half was fairly reasonable to start talking seriously. It sounds like some think I've actually waited too long? Surely much sooner and you wouldn't really have got to know the person at a deeper level?

I was more inclined to say wait until the two year mark. But then if you add an engagement period in before ttc, it adds another year / 18 months.

But then the alternative is to start again, which could be equal or more time.

Could you have fertility tests at all?

I don't think it's that he's stringing you along as he can be madly in love with you and not want to get married.
But he must know deep down. There must be a feeling there.

How long have you lived together? I think after living with my partner for a few months, I already knew him well enough. Shitty characteristics have appeared or increased since then, and other have gone down a bit, but only from 7 years.

If he's being vague, it doesn't seem like he's that certain about having children nor is he confident of the fact he knows you well enough maybe, and maybe by the time he actually gets there it will be too late.

Well, a few things, but personally I would say he is blatantly NOT stringing you along. I am famous among my family and friends for “marring everyone” (like Ross from Friends) and even I don’t see 1.5 years sans proposal as a “string-along....”

Now, I do think you are conflating two things unnecessarily here. Marriage and children. It’s entirely plausible to do either without the other. If your biological clock is ticking, THERE is your problem. Marriage is neither here nor there really. I remember when mine started (at about your age). Then DH didn’t want a child at that point, and I think I essentially pressured him into it (she was a planned child, I never lied, but I still regret my actions to this day, except NOT, because I have awesome DD).

So in your situation, I would listen to my clock, tell him you are ready for a child, and it’s important to you. (Leave marriage out of it for now). If he isn’t happy to have one, then yes, you DO need to move on, sadly, I think......

Regarding marriage and when people should be ready, this is hard, as people differ. I WAS pissed off when after two years with my most recent ex, I bought up marriage (this was shortly before he dumped me) and he was horrified. But that was partly because we had been friends for 20 years beforehand, I think. Current bloke, only about 6 months in, has vaguely intimated it’s not a total impossibility (he spoke about seeking a divorce from his wife he left 8 years ago, which he hasn’t done so far because they married, and she still lives, somewhere abroad which is very remote and lacking in legal infrastructure, and they are NC, so he has had no need to make it official. BUT he suggested recently, a bit out of the blue, that he would do it for “our future”:) Not rushing at anything (to break the habit of a lifetime), but my expectation would be, if we are together a couple of years and all still well, maybe one or other proposes? Not before that tho I reckon....

I don't think he is necessarily stringing you along but if you ask him to make a decision one way or the other he KNOWS what he wants.

If he wants some space - give it to him 100% no doing a "pick me" dance.

I Wouldn't say stringing along and I do think discussing much sooner would have been too soon. 1.5 years is hardly an obscene amount of time.

What makes me cautious is the sense that this may be another case of the "not yet, not yet, not yet" and then five years have passed without anything changing. I expect others are influenced by that too.

There's a seemingly constant stream of women posting here who've been waiting anxiously on a man to feel ready or decide or find a perfect moment - and they're often years and years down the line and still protesting that they can't possibly talk to him about it but also desperately unhappy.

If the two of you could have a sensible conversation without any of the script being spouted from him, great.

You’re living together and you’ve been together 1.5 years. I’d be raising the issue if there isn’t a ring in 6 months. If there isn’t, walk away. I assume he’s similar age to you, if he doesn’t know at the the two year mark he never will. Trust me on that one.

Completely wrong to say "marriage is neither here nor there". OP has already said she wants a man who wants to legally commit to her before she has a child with him and for them to be a family together. This is entirely normal and is the most logical approach. Who on earth wants to be faffing about with a man you need to persuade to have a child, who's not even convinced he wants to be with you for the rest of his life in the first place?? And how many more upsetting posts from unmarried mothers do we need on this forum before some people finally comprehend the very real legal differences between marriage and non-marriage and the implication on women and their children...

OP I strongly suggest you read "Mr Good Enough" by Lori Gottlieb. Not only is there great, clear headed advice on there about finding the right guy from someone who's actually gone through the situation, but she is also a single mother of a son she conceived via sperm donor due to running out of time. In that book she lays bare the realities of bringing up a child on your own and her own regrets of not settling down earlier with a guy to share parenthood with, alongside the unrealistic expectations she had of single parenthood. Too many women on here are flippant about popping out a baby with no marriage or father. Lori herself talks about how much time she wasted on men she thought were great at the time but who didn't commit. There is no reason why you can't be in a loving marriage where you're both ready to have children but you need to make the right decisions about men now as this is already a critical time point.

Why don't you just tell him the truth? Just explain your situation to him.

Suggestions that he's stringing you along are way off the mark. Most men just don't grasp the pressure that women are under to conceive within a certain time frame. No need to threaten him, just lay the facts out - you love him and would love to spend your life with him, but you really need to get moving on the baby front.

Men are scared of marriage. They see it as a huge risk where they stand to loose everything and end up with no kids, so you will probably need to allay such doubts.

I thnk at that age, with two people serious enough to be thinking about where the commitment is heading/ not, then 18 months maximum, with obvious indicators along the way eg actually discussing what you want, making it generally very clear you're in it for the long haul. Ideally less time but 18 months at most.

I think if he wanted to marry you he would know by now even if he's not ready to propose. I'd look to move on if he's saying he's undecided X