How long would you wait?

[EvelynSalt]

Wise hive mind of Mumsnet, I'm crap at life management and I need your advice.

At 34, how long would you stay with someone (that you adore, makes you laugh, is supportive etc) before you make the call to leave if they don't propose?

I'm getting ever more conscious of my age. I want to have children; I have endometriosis so no idea how easy / possible it will be anyway. I've taken on board lots of advice from Mumsnet and friends' experiences and recognise that it's sensible to get married before children, where possible, for many reasons (no judgment at all of those who have made alternative choices, I recognise it's not right for everyone).

We have discussed life plans and both want children (although he is more of the "at some point" school of thought). He wasn't too bothered about marriage, but isn't against it, so to speak. It's just not something he's thought about much as he's never got to a point with someone where it has become a talking point.

We have been together 1.5 years and live together. I know this isn't long at all, in the grand scheme of things, but in the context of age, how much longer would you wait before you decided he just doesn't want to propose?

I'm really struggling to clear my thoughts on this...stay with someone I love and risk it ending further down the line, if he decides he doesn't want to marry me? Or leave him, in the hope that I meet someone I love as deeply who wants to marry and have children, all within the next 6 years?

I have brought it up recently and he, quite rightly, says it's a serious decision and he's not there yet. I would never want to push someone into such a big life choice so I've respected his position and left it there. But where I'm struggling is, at what point do I raise it in a more finite way? As in, I need to know when or if this is going to happen.

Rambling post, sorry - thanks for reading if you made it this far!

Firstly I hope you're ok with your endometriosis I have it severally at stage 4 and my gynaecologist said it didn't necessarily a factor in your fertility. Lots of women have it and can easily get pregnant.

Secondly your potential fertility challenges should not factor in having a baby soon if you are not sure where you stand with your partner.

You need to have a conversation and get his honest take on your future together.
From your initial post makes me think deep down you know you're not on the same, commitment page?

OP, love and relationships are always a risk. But giving him 2 years to figure out what he wants, is a reasonable amount of time. Especially since you live together already. So if he still can't articulate then WHY he isn't ready (What are his doubts, concerns? What is he expecting to change to convince him?), it's more risky staying with him. Because it also shows he doesn't understand this isn't you being pointlessly demanding, this is you worrying about your fertility!

Look at it this way. He's willing to risk losing YOU by faffing about. Wouldn't you rather have someone more committed than that?

Please have the discussion and be ready to leave if it's not what you want.
I waited. I'm not going to be a mother now.
34 and endo, you need to get moving.

Age that you are.

I would say -listen I'd like to try for kids -are you open to that -but I want to do it after we are married and I want to think and discuss timescales -to discuss if you are on the same page or not?

ie marriage 2021 or 2022? Summer -small wedding etc?
Try for a baby 2022 ? What do you think? That puts you at 36 -that's late enough in my book.

I don't understand women who don't get married before having children saying he isn't ready for marriage.

Likewise for me I don't want to get remarried ever. But I have kids. No need.

I'm in a similar position to you but a couple of years older. I am very conscious though that I don't want my desire to have kids make me rush into having them if the relationship isn't right. It's a tough balance.

We have agreed that assuming things continue to go well we will get engaged in 2021 with the aim of getting married and trying for a baby in 2022.

We think that's the right plan for us and for our other circumstances (need to sell his flat and buy a house etc).

Some really helpful ideas for ways to have this conversation, thank you! Keep them coming, I'll need all the help I can get.

For some reason in a work context I can be clear, concise and decisive. However when it comes to relationships, I become a meandering, confusing version of myself!

@GoGoGone

I'm in a similar position to you but a couple of years older. I am very conscious though that I don't want my desire to have kids make me rush into having them if the relationship isn't right. It's a tough balance.

We have agreed that assuming things continue to go well we will get engaged in 2021 with the aim of getting married and trying for a baby in 2022.

We think that's the right plan for us and for our other circumstances (need to sell his flat and buy a house etc).

I'm sorry you're in a similar boat although it's great that you've agreed a plan. Did you initiate the discussion?

Tell him you'd like to marry him, no need to mention children at this point but say it's really important to you and you'd like it to be soon.
See what he says then you can decide.

BIG QUESTION:

However when it comes to relationships, I become a meandering, confusing version of myself

Are you with the right person? Sorry to ask, but in a solid happy relationship that affirms who you are, things become clearer, not opaquer.

(I know opaquer isn't a word but I'm trying to lighten a very very HEAVY post)

@Eckhart

BIG QUESTION:

However when it comes to relationships, I become a meandering, confusing version of myself

Are you with the right person? Sorry to ask, but in a solid happy relationship that affirms who you are, things become clearer, not opaquer.

(I know opaquer isn't a word but I'm trying to lighten a very very HEAVY post)

Big question but a good one. I believe I am, yes. It is a healthy relationship (and I've had a few unhealthy ones so I can compare and contrast!). I just find it hard to keep my part of the conversation very to-the-point, so others' experiences are helpful

After 1.5 years together you would know whether that person is someone you would want to marry. I assuming you do, which is why you made this post, so why should he be any different? If someone has doubts at this stage, that in itself is telling. Men know early on whether the woman they're with is the one for them. Those who delay and complain about 'pressure' at this stage are simply biding time with you to see if something better comes along.

The bigger problem is that you've given over all power to him by moving in and acting like a wife already, all the while waiting on him to propose and dangle you on a string in the meantime while you stay on 'good behaviour '. By moving in together, you've communicated to him that you're happy to stay with him as an unmarried live-in girlfriend. I'd be moving straight out if I were you and let him know he can take as long as he needs to decide but you don't feel comfortable living together if he's unsure about you. NB: DEFINITELY leave within 6 months if he hasn't proposed. You're in real danger of running out of time if you already have an existing fertility problem on top of the normal age consideration.

@user17425642134531

I think getting married should be a discussion between equals. If you want all the big decisions in your life to be taken by a man then keep hanging around, otherwise just bring the subject up like any other.

I agree. You can't make your life decisions based on guesswork, mind reading and waiting for somebody else to decide the direction of your life for you.

There is no justification for not bringing it up yourself.

Once married, would you then sit around helplessly waiting for him to propose having children? Or would you bring it up yourself to discuss?

It's your life, you're allowed to raise things that are important to you and to have a role in the decision-making.

This 100%. I don't know what's happened to this generation, but commitment has become a dirty word and some women feel they don't deserve this from a man and should be a doormat waiting on him to bestow marriage on them if he pleases, all the while letting the man have all the benefits of marriage.

To be completely honest, if he already knows about the OP's fertility situation and they've been together for 1.5 years, it's very likely that he's unsure of OP/doesn't want to marry her/doesn't want kids anytime soon, because otherwise he would be biting at the quick to marry the love of his life and ensure he doesn't miss the boat for having children with the woman he wants to spend the rest of his life with.

@madcatladyforever

Tell him you'd like to marry him, no need to mention children at this point but say it's really important to you and you'd like it to be soon. See what he says then you can decide.

I see your point but the problem is that not discussing kids means he could turn round after they're engaged or married and say he doesn't want kids for another X years which could sadly mean OP runs out of time. And he then swans off to have kids with a younger woman whenever he feels like it in the future, as so many of them do. Women need to remember that men think very selfishly in terms of relationships and will think nothing of running down your fertility clock while you wait, if you provide them with good enough company and sex in the meantime (after all they didnt force you to stay).

OP also has to be wary of him promising a proposal or indeed getting engaged, and him then dragging his feet to get married, and wasting her time even more.

This is precisely the problem with sticking with someone who has doubts/is unsure about you/"isn't ready" as they always want to have the back door open to bail, and their heart isn't fully in driving anything forward that is related to actual commitment.

Someone who truly wants to be with only you, will be a co-driving force with you and you won't have any of these doubts that they are not on the same page or timescales.

OP I wish you the best as i know it's a difficult position to be in. There are other men out there who are keen for marriage and kids but you need to leave incompatible relationships soon enough to meet them otherwise THEY will become put off by your own ticking clock since having kids is a priority for them

@EvelynSalt in your situation I would get a fertility check up to see what my chances of conceiving are likely to be so that I had an idea if I could wait at all. No man is worth wasting your remaining fertile years on if you really want children.

[quote Silentplikebath]@EvelynSalt in your situation I would get a fertility check up to see what my chances of conceiving are likely to be so that I had an idea if I could wait at all. No man is worth wasting your remaining fertile years on if you really want children.[/quote]
Good idea, I think this would really help me. I've sent an enquiry to a local clinic to see if they're doing assessments at the moment.

If you want marriage and then kids why have you moved in with him when neither of these things has been agreed on? Unwise imo

@joystir59

If you want marriage and then kids why have you moved in with him when neither of these things has been agreed on? Unwise imo

So to clarify the moving in thing - we each own a property. We have been living together in the sense of we spend every night together, but we spend a week at my apartment and a week at his apartment. We haven't gone ahead and got our own place together yet (I told him I wouldn't buy a property with him unless we were at least engaged)

otherwise he would be biting at the quick to marry the love of his life and ensure he doesn't miss the boat for having children with the woman he wants to spend the rest of his life with.
^^ this
To an extent anyway.
I had a friend whose GF gave him a year to decide whether or not he wanted children, as she wanted them and said if he didn't she'd leave to find someone who did.
They are happily married with one child now.
A PP suggested sitting him down NOW and giving him six months to decide whether he wants you to be the grandmother of his grandchildren.
Sounds like a reasonable plan to me...

@LilyWater

After 1.5 years together you would know whether that person is someone you would want to marry. I assuming you do, which is why you made this post, so why should he be any different? If someone has doubts at this stage, that in itself is telling. Men know early on whether the woman they're with is the one for them. Those who delay and complain about 'pressure' at this stage are simply biding time with you to see if something better comes along.

The bigger problem is that you've given over all power to him by moving in and acting like a wife already, all the while waiting on him to propose and dangle you on a string in the meantime while you stay on 'good behaviour '. By moving in together, you've communicated to him that you're happy to stay with him as an unmarried live-in girlfriend. I'd be moving straight out if I were you and let him know he can take as long as he needs to decide but you don't feel comfortable living together if he's unsure about you. NB: DEFINITELY leave within 6 months if he hasn't proposed. You're in real danger of running out of time if you already have an existing fertility problem on top of the normal age consideration.

This is a very wose post.

Too many women give the power of decision making to men.

I genuinely don't understand it.

Why did you move in?
How long are you living together?
At what point did you move in?
Who suggested it.

I think at your age if you would like to marry and have children, you get engaged, with a date and get married. If that's what YOU want.

Moving in with a man, hoping for the best, wanting the above and hoping he'll want to is giving him all the power and doesn't he know it.

OP, the only power you have now is to walk away, because everything is being given to him to decide.

He's unsure of you.

Move out.
Give him space and start looking around.
Because as Lily writes, no really sure means to me that he may have one eye out for a better offer.

You deserve better, but you haven't behaved really as if you do.

wise post by @LilyWater*

I told him I wouldn't buy a property with him unless we were at least engaged

Getting engaged is just words, op. I know of many, many women who were proposed to and marriage never happened. My guess is that their partners just wanted to pacify them. Don't buy property with him unless you're married, and if I were you, I would stop spending all of your time with your partner. He's getting everything he wants and you definitely are not.

OP it’s so hard. I was in a similar position a few years ago: uncommitted man, me impatient. I left. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. The most painful split.
But it was worth it because I met someone who wants the same as me and it’s such a relief. (Not saying your situation is the same at all but you must have a hard conversation and set a time limit and be prepared to walk, and if you do walk, know that there will be hope)

I suppose after 1.5 years and spending every night together I would be having the make or break conversation.

He either feels the same way about you as you do him or not.

Perhaps see Christmas and New Year out the way and then have the discussion.

If your fertility checks came back that DC would be highly unlikely or need ££££ of IVF would it change how you felt about this relationship? Would you still want to stay with him unmarried forever if you couldn't have DC?

@RandomMess

I suppose after 1.5 years and spending every night together I would be having the make or break conversation.

He either feels the same way about you as you do him or not.

Perhaps see Christmas and New Year out the way and then have the discussion.

If your fertility checks came back that DC would be highly unlikely or need ££££ of IVF would it change how you felt about this relationship? Would you still want to stay with him unmarried forever if you couldn't have DC?

I've just booked an assessment and should get the results right after new year, so that would work really well in terms of timing. I've drafted some notes of what I'd like to say and have used lots of the advice here to do that.

If I knew I couldn't have children, I think I'd still have the conversation. Simply because I see marriage as proof of commitment and I want that, I know I would aways question the relationship if he didn't want to marry me and it would dent my own self worth

We have been together 1.5 years and live together.

That is plenty long enough in my opinion at your ages.

Because you are living together already the danger is that scenario will just go on and on especially if he is fine with the status quo.

Maybe time for an honest conversation and mention your endometriosis.