Fucking commitmentphobic bastards.

[Nunoftheother]

For the love of God, why are so many men unable commit to a relationship? Why is the thought of spending time exclusively with one person, being reliable and being faithful so terrifying? I'm not asking for marriage or moving in together, but the latest one won't even agree not to see other people.

Why do they all lie, mess you around, stand you up and ghost you? Either that or they're so pathetically needy they really want a mother figure not a partner.

I am so fed up of "relationships" lasting around 3-4 months and then being tossed aside like trash - which is how I feel. I've had this all through my 30s and 40s and it's shit.

Obviously lockdown doesn't help. Current guy has kids every weekend so I wasn't seeing him then anyway. But what is the point if they won't even entertain the idea of something developing?

Just wanted to let off steam, really.

You stayed with her 6 weeks after you knew it wouldn't work out?

sundaytakeaway it's family of origin. Maybe that's where the Foo fighters got the idea

@Nunoftheother

Look at your own family of birth and the dynamics between your parents there. Our formative years are not called that for nothing.

Ok - look at them, spend several years in therapy discussing them, continue to meet a series of commitment-phobic arseholes. Then what?

Then you're not done with therapy.

Then you're not done with therapy.

I gave it 11 years, some of that twice-weekly. I can assure you I am done with therapy.

It's not you OP - there's a lot of demographic evidence about the disproportion between "eligible" men and "eligible" women.

So you know who else can fuck off? Smug people who don't realise that partnering is as much about luck as anything else. Single women are not lacking, missing, or lesser. They do not need therapy, or to lower their sights, or to love themselves, any more than any other person on the planet.

So stop implying that about the OP.

My single friends are all very different - one has had the most wholesome and loving childhood there could be, another has divorced parents, one struggles to discuss feelings while another is incredibly open... there is no unifying feature these women share that could explain why they’re attracting men who mess them around (and again, I’m not talking about people who are honest about wanting a casual arrangement)

Can I recommend a book called “attachment” It explains why the dating pool is FULL of men like this.

People who have found someone who IS lovely and willing to commit often don’t understand that maybe everyone isn’t the same and lots of men do play games and blow hot and cold etc. All the men I have dated in the last 10 years have been like this.

And I may have been the problem long ago when the normal men were around but I know I am not now. Unfortunately by the time I sorted myself out only the dickheads were left The only advantage now is that I don’t care as much and that my boundaries are more substantial. It does mean I am single all the time though

I think you need to try to identify red flags sooner....lying on his profile about his age is a huge deal.

If he's lying about his age what else is he lying about?
Well, clearly what he was looking for as well if his profile stated he wanted a relationship but doesnt really.

I think dating sites give people the 'kid in a sweet shop' mentality.....so much choice and there might be someone better coming along so they want to keep their options open.

Let’s face it, once you get to your 40’s the quality of men in the pool is not going to be great. The vast majority of the good ones are going to be already in relationships and the better ones will make that work. There will be some good ones who are tossed back into the dating pool but most will have baggage and after long relationships, most will want to just shag as many women as they can. Men are shaggers and the internet facilitates this for them. It’s very much luck if the draw as the dating threads on here suggest.

Actually if it's just down to sex I've found that my sex drive is much higher in my late 40's and a lot of guys my age and older have 'issues' with dysfunction. Not sure that tells the whole story.

MissMarples - brilliant response. The luck element is exactly it. There’s also a lot to be said for the lack of accountability of OLD. People who have been seeing each other for 3/4/5 months might still have not met family and friends and if you live in different towns/cities it’s unlikely you’ll have mutual friends or acquaintances. People can just slink off and disappear without a mutual pal being able to say, what the fuck are you playing at, doing that to her? That’s a massive thing too, I think.

@runningthrougharedlight

MissMarples - brilliant response. The luck element is exactly it. There’s also a lot to be said for the lack of accountability of OLD. People who have been seeing each other for 3/4/5 months might still have not met family and friends and if you live in different towns/cities it’s unlikely you’ll have mutual friends or acquaintances. People can just slink off and disappear without a mutual pal being able to say, what the fuck are you playing at, doing that to her? That’s a massive thing too, I think.

Yes, absolutely. Makes it much easier to get away with constructing a pack of lies, too.

The harsh reality is there aren't many decent single guys in their 40-60s.
There are loads of decent single women in that age bracket.

So it's just luck of the draw and the odds aren't great.

I'm really new at OLD and I'm 'dating' a guy who might be decent (he is so far), or might be a heap of shit. Only time will tell, and I'm not going to emotionally invest in them until I know them better.

@MissMarplesGlove

It's not you OP - there's a lot of demographic evidence about the disproportion between "eligible" men and "eligible" women.

So you know who else can fuck off? Smug people who don't realise that partnering is as much about luck as anything else. Single women are not lacking, missing, or lesser. They do not need therapy, or to lower their sights, or to love themselves, any more than any other person on the planet.

So stop implying that about the OP.

Where is this evidence. Ive heard it said its harder for women than men at say 40 but nothing really to substantiate

Yes Nunof, who knows the level of fabrication that goes on from the get-go. It’s incredibly sad and it really can give you a complex that there’s something wrong with you. I think unless you’ve experienced this a few times, it’s hard to imagine how fragile and low it can leave you and it’s not easy to brush off.

Puttergal, I suppose it’s then about thinking at what point the emotional investment kicks in for you (we’ve all got different thresholds I guess) for some it might be after a few dates, others a few months and beyond. For me, the 4-5 month mark is probably a point where I might think I’ve caught some feels so when the disappearing or revelation of something different to that which I’ve been led to believe happens at that point, I do feel sad.

I used a very clinical approach to snag one that's not a twat. (After suffering what you've described)
I made it very clear early in the conversations what my intentions were, that I was very aware of how to spot chancers, liars and married men etc.
Then I went on a first date really quickly. (Within a week or so)
2 or three dates a week. Somewhere cheap because I'm not wasting my time AND money on idiots with 10 year old photos and a ridiculous excuse as to why their age was wrong.
I stayed for one drink unless we clicked, told them straight away if they weren't for me and blocked before I got home.
A few made it to second dates.
The lovely guy I'm with now made it to pub closing time, and a second date set up before the first had finished.
Late 40s, looks younger, smart, fun, own teeth, own hair, not a twat.
They are out there but fucking hell you have to search.

Speaking from experience, as I am one, longterm single men of that age are significantly less likely to be suitable for a relationship than the available women.

Of those men who are vaguely relationship material they're more likely to see a 3 month fling which fizzles out as a pretty successful outcome, compared to the often more emotionally invested female partner. Some will have been open to a relationship developing if things had gone better, but not sufficiently committed to put more effort in.

I've no useful advice beyond keeping your standards high.

Also what's hilarious is that they have an image in their minds that they are out on the town every night, shagging themselves silly until their dick drops off....when a lot of the time, once the pants are off, they actually get droopy dick because they are a far cry from the virile young stallions they have in their mind's eye....of them at about 21, when in reality, at 47, the hairline's receding, the paunch is forming...and still we let these losers paw at us and then toss us. All because of...what are we seeking??????

I think you need to do more detective work to find things out sooner, and also tolerate less. Most people would not find themselves 3 or 4 months in with a man they can't see at weekends. It rings immediately alarm bells, and at best is unworkable, so there would not even be a second date in that situation. Ask yourself what part you play in this? Yes they are sadly out there, but by asking them the right questions early on, you can suss where they are at and bin them off if not compatible with what you want. Also, have a clear idea of what you want, aside from hearts and flowers, practical head on.

OP, I fully understand why you are so hurt and pissed off by all this. But just to give another perspective - it seems to me that rather than being genetically pro or anti commitment, most of us, male and female, can/will only commit when we meet someone who is a good fit (doesn’t mean they are better or worse than anyone else - just right for us), and that is quite a rare and hard thing to find.....

My most recent ex for example is really keen to find a woman to settle down with (older guy, divorcee, gets lonely). So he tried for two years to make it work with me (before brutally ending it, but that’s another story), but in the end couldn’t do it, not because there is anything intrinsically wrong with me (I don’t think!) - just that he didn’t like me enough - tho I would have married him in a minute, I was besotted for a time....... And I’ve had loads of shit marriages/relationships before that went a bit like that previously (or I couldn’t really commit to them.....)

I then went into OLD with an absolute determination that I would not be committing to any man ever again, not falling in love, done with all that, just want sex and fun dating..... Guess what happened with the very first bloke I met? Head over heels! He at first told me he didn’t want commitment either..... Now we tell each other we love each other daily (I have NEVER been like that), make massive efforts to see each other even tho it’s a LDR (he left my house at 3:30 this morning to get to work, for example), have tentatively talked about a SERIOUS future. I WAS sketchy about it for ages -when I first told him I loved him, he made me repeat it about 20 times because he couldn’t quite believe it - and I hardly can either - but it just feels so right! (Of course, now I have said that he will probably ghost me today - in fact he’s probably already doing it! )

So what I am saying is, it’s definitely not you or anything you should be doing differently, it just takes a crazy amount of luck to meet someone you could consider a future with and who feels the same back, in my honest opinion.....

@mayflowerapplepie do you mean attached by Amir Levine and Rachel S. F. Heller or another book? Be interested to read that even though I’m in a relationship.

OP. Red flags. The lying on profile about intentions and age. Weed them out immediately.

Availability to date. Listen to how they talk about their exes, ability to be reflective and accept responsibility.

You say therapy has been done to death but what did you learn from it?

Yes Cornish that’s the one...

@Nunoftheother

Then you're not done with therapy.

I gave it 11 years, some of that twice-weekly. I can assure you I am done with therapy.

I have been in therapy for 20 years, and much of that has been to deal with intimate relationships. Sometimes these things take longer than we'd prefer.

The harsh reality is there aren't many decent single guys in their 40-60s. There are loads of decent single women in that age bracket.

Yup.

Someone said something about demographics upthread:

• men tend to partner/marry "down" - younger, less well-qualified, less well-off
• women tend to partner/marry up
• I think there are 51% women, 49% men in the UK

I think there's also something about the ways men and women are socialised or conditioned into masculinity (don't show your feelings, you don't need love, never be vulnerable) ad femininity (find your value in relationships, you need to be partnered) etc etc.

[NB I say "tend" - don't come at me with "well my DH is 10 years younger & I earn double" - that's one individual experience - i"m talking broad population tendencies]