How do I get ex to agree with me moving kids abroad

[Floatingaway2017]

Hello

I have been applying for jobs abroad as it has always been a goal of mine to get some international experience. I am looking for a change for myself and children who are in primary school at the moment. I am doing okay as a single mum in the UK but life is stressful and busy. We are always running around from school to work and living in a big city life is expensive.

This job not only offers fantastic educational and financial opportunities but also a more relaxed lifestyle as well as well as a better quality of life. I really feel this is the best thing for kids and I at the moment. This move is not permanent and I plan for us to move back within a few years (3-5 years maximum) unless we absolutely love it there and don't want to move back.

How do I approach my ex about giving me permission to do this. He has parental responsibility like me. He sees kids one day a week (no overnights) and pays maintenance. He doesn't involve himself in their schooling or childcare. Doesn't take them to any extracurricular clubs. He has very young children with his current partner as well as stepchildren. He is not really that interested or invested in my children's upbringing or welfare so I don't think it would be a massive disruption to him if we moved. However he has narcissistic tendencies and may just try to thwart my plans because he can. He has seemed to become more indifferent towards me though which I am hoping may work in my favour in convincing him to agree to this.

Similarly I feel like he doesn't add anything significant to my children's life that they would miss if we went abroad and actually the wonderful new experiences they would have would compensate for this. During the week they never ask to speak to him and no longer get disappointed if they can't see him on the weekends for any reason. Basically he is ambivalent and so are they.

I'm happy to bring them during holidays to visit their dad and support their relationship with his family in other ways. I am 60-70% convinced he will agree but I am not sure how to broach the matter in a way that will tip it more in my favour. Please can you advise especially if you have dealt with a narcisstic coparent or been in this situation.

[Supereager]

I doubt this will work but might as well try! Just say it’s a 12 month opportunity. Once you’re out there then just keep extending it

[category12]

@Supereager

I doubt this will work but might as well try! Just say it’s a 12 month opportunity. Once you’re out there then just keep extending it

Yes, this.

[2bazookas]

He sees them every weekend.
There are five kids under 10, so its not surprising they come back tired out; that's exactly the reaction one would expect if they've been having a great time with the stepsibs in a noisy busy household. A busy noisy household does NOT indicate "lack of nurture". A woman managing 5 kids under 10, has her hands full; but she is doing it every weekend, that does not suggest no care, no affection for yours.

Whatever kind of dad he is, he's the only one they've got and I think you underestimate how important that regular contact and relationship is. To them and to him. If he was the total waste of space you claim, he'd have dropped contact by now. He hasn't.

I know two UK fathers in that scenario and they both took immediate legal steps to prevent their ex moving abroad with their children. And won.

[2bazookas]

@Supereager

I doubt this will work but might as well try! Just say it’s a 12 month opportunity. Once you’re out there then just keep extending it

That possibility of deception/losing the children indefinitely is exactly why any parent with a brain would refuse permission for their kids to leave UK.

[chemicalworld]

Quite honestly, no matter how you feel about your ex, he is still your children's father and they all deserve to have a relationship. I think moving them away will damage this, and I wouldn't blame him for challenging this, he deserves to have a say.

[Jeezoh]

Well their relationship is never going to improve with them on different continents. By all means I’d ask but don’t be surprised if he says no, not because he’s a narcissist but because it’s a big ask of someone with parental responsibility.

[movingonup20]

I would say it is a temporary position and you would not expect him to pay maintenance plus you will bring them back x times a year at your expense. He may jump at not paying maintenance but you need to ensure you try to keep their relationship going through eg zoom.

[Oswin]

This mans a waste of space shit dad. He has no room in his home for his own children. Any parent like this doesnt give a shit about their children and these kids will be better having some distance from him

[BertiesLanding]

@Supereager

I doubt this will work but might as well try! Just say it’s a 12 month opportunity. Once you’re out there then just keep extending it

This could backfire quite badly on the OP in several ways.

OP, while their father still sees them, I wouldn't be considering moving abroad - not unless he is abusive. I'm afraid the term "narcissist" is bandied around so much as to have become irrelevant unless there's a clinical diagnosis; and (again, unless he's abusive to them) your own diagnosis cannot justify a decision that affects his children, even if he treats them differently to you.

There is an entitlement to your original post that puts you firmly at the centre of your decision-making.

[Techway]

Legally he can stop you moving, which I'm sure you are aware of.

It is also likely a court could side with him but depends on a number of factors, such as extended family on both sides. It is easy for him to present a move as having a negative impact on the children and a judge won't see a narcisstic dad, just a dad who may lose contact with his children.

You would have to present this as a benefit to him but I doubt you will have success, if he is definitely narcisstic. He will not have empathy for your situation and certainly won't see it from the children's point of view. At their age their views are unlikely to count.

I wish you luck but having an Ex that is similar I know the challenge.

[Floatingaway2017]

Thank you for your responses. They have given me a lot to think about. I have always supported the children having a relationship with their dad and keeping contact consistent. Tbh it's him who has played games with contact at times by not seeing the children for weeks at a time to punish me for some infraction because he knows he has no other power over me then by hurting my children. I have had to swallow my pride and back down on occasions in order for him to resume contact. Every message has to be thought out in case he objects and goes on the attack. I have done that for my children but now I can see contact with him is actually harming them.

He has moved on with his life. It is selfish of him to hold us back from improving our lives and having an amazing experience for one day a week. He can Skype them.

By the way I'm not saying he has no say. I'm asking how I can ask him in a way to get a yes. Either way I'm not scared of court because I have more than enough evidence to argue that it is in their benefit to limit contact with him. I would rather just avoid it because I don't have energy or time for it. As their mother every decision I make is with them in the forefront of my mind. It is unlikely you as a stranger can care more about my children's wellbeing then I do. So please don't judge me from saving them from being their dad's kids on the side.

[Lightsontbut]

He has moved on with his life. It is selfish of him to hold us back from improving our lives and having an amazing experience for one day a week. He can Skype them.

This really jarred when I read it. He's not holding you back as there will be others ways to improve your life and it's not OK to belittle one day a week contact or consider Skype to be any real replacement. I think you need to properly consider the meaning of this. That's not to say you should change your mind, but these are not reasonable assumptions on which to base your decision.

[MessAllOver]

OP, I agree. He's really a very small, inconsistent part of your DC's lives.

I wonder what he would say if you said you were going whatever happened and, if he stopped you taking the children, you'd leave them with him? He shouldn't be able to hold you to ransom... you'd have no say if he decided to move abroad and stop seeing the children.

[Bbub]

He can Skype then?! God you're heartless, I feel so sorry for your kids.

You will be damaging their relationship with their dad, no matter what you think of him it's THEIR dad and they need to find out if he's a disappointment on their own if that's the case.

It's not about him or you, it's about the kids. Will they get the emotional love and support they need via Skype?

If so why don't you leave them behind and Skype them yourself.

My sister did similar to what you're proposing to do and her child's relationship with her father never recovered (unsurprisingly), and my niece obviously blames her mum.

Yes living abroad gives kids loads of opportunities and experiences, but nothing can replace their dad. Please reconsider for their sake. Move abroad for a bit when they are grown up if you must.

[ShesMadeATwatOfMePam]

Why don't you move abroad and leave them with their dad and Skype them?

[june2007]

Your not just taking them from their dad then? Your taking them from their brothers and sisters? May mean nothing to you but they see them every wk I am sure they will mean something to your children.

[Bbub]

If their dad moved abroad they would probably never forgive him for abandoning them, their rship would not ever be the same again...my dad moved abroad and I never understood how he could leave us.

What you're doing is going to also leave the kids without rship with their dad, and they will only be able to blame you, so prepare yourself for that.

[Oswin]

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam

Why don't you move abroad and leave them with their dad and Skype them?

This waste of space doesnt have room in his house for his own children to stay over. You think hes going to become the resident parent?

[elp30]

I am American and my ex-husband & the father of my oldest child is as well. We have a son together and split up when he was a year old.

I met and fell in love with an Englishman. It made complete and total sense practically (financially) to move to England with my four-year-old son and marry my boyfriend. My ex-husband understood the practicalities and the reasons for us leaving and we spent six months going back and forth to come up with a solution regarding visitation and keeping their relationship as close as possible. This was in the mid-90's so it was challenging.

The ex spoke to him twice a week on the phone. Email was new so I emailed him every day about his progress in school and at home. I sent him artwork and photos often and to his parents. I took him back to the US twice a year, at my expense. The ex did come visit us in England a few times and in order to do this, he stayed in my home for two weeks at a time. We did this for nearly nine years. I moved my whole family (which includes my English husband and our two kids together) moved back to the US and even settled in the ex's city so they could continue to be close.

It's a lot of compromise but it can work. I will tell you though that my husband and I did a great deal more work, which is fair given that I did the moving away... My oldest is nearly 29 and I can't say that despite all the work we did to keep the relationship going with his father hasn't gone without hiccups. My son still uses the nine years away from his Dad as a stick to beat me with during petty arguments and his father does always bring up that he would have liked to have had his son growing up with him. My husband (of nearly 25 years, incidentally) and I always say that if we had to do our lives over again, we would never have moved to England all those years ago. Despite the fact that we did have a much higher standard of living in those years in England and we gave my son a pretty good life (he doesn't deny it), being away from his Dad did affect him negatively.

Good luck OP

[MessAllOver]

The OP is the one who has almost all the responsibility of providing for, caring for and generally ensuring the best life chances for her children. Contact with their dad is one factor she should take into account in deciding what's in their best interests, but it's not the only factor. She's the parent who's been there for them, not him.

[HaggieMaggie]

@CharlotteRose90

Sorry but I think you’re out of order doing this. He sees his kids once a week and you want to take them away from him to suit yourself. I’m sorry for whatever he did to you but he has a right to see his kids.
I actually hope he takes you to court for this. Judges aren’t lenient with things like this either

This.

[babbi]

I’m not going to comment on your ex and the legalities of you moving away as many have covered that on here .

However ( and please believe me I mean this to be supportive) your ideas of going away for 3-5 years and coming back are imo a bit naive and ill informed.
I’ve lived overseas quite a bit as have many family members. It can be a big deal for some children to be uprooted after settling into another country and culture .
I have a friend who currently cannot come back from Canada as her 3
boys 9 and twins of 11 are incredibly happy and settled there . Sports etc are great for them ... no way will they be pleased to come back to Greater London where there are not the same schooling and sports opportunities that they currently have . Her DH is happy enough to stay there but she longs to return to the UK now . 5 years is not so long as an adult but it’s a long time for children where they plant roots in their society/ environment.
I’ve got many similar stories ... not least the current situation where families could always “ jump on a plane “ to get back home ... that’s not happening obviously for the foreseeable....
Add in that your DC will be separated from their father and you have so much more to consider ....

I’m not trying to be negative.. I’ve enjoyed many years abroad myself ... but I’m really just saying to be aware such plans are way more challenging than thought at first ..

Good luck with whatever you decide to do ...

[Floatingaway2017]

I may have said it in a harsh way but the fact remains that they have much less contact with him then they do with me. He has not seen them for weeks at a time and cancels weekends at short notice when it suits him. I can not force him to come and see them when he does this but you are cheering his ability to force me to give up an opportunity that will benefit them and myself so he can see them a few hours one day a week. He doesn't call them during the week, he never attends parents evenings, sports days or school assemblies, when they are ill he isn't the one who takes days off work to look after them. He doesn't take them to the doctor or dentists when they need check ups. He looks after them like you would a pet that your looking after for a friend. He doesn't think about how they are doing at school, what secondary school they will go to, what will happen when they go to university, whether they will be able to buy a house in the future. Nothing. Meanwhile I invest my blood sweat and tears in to giving them the best life possible. You tell me that I should leave them to their dad? The funny thing is if I was to do that I'm sure many people telling me to do this - seriously or not - would be the first to judge me for leaving my children with a narcisstic, self centered dad for a job. Hypocritical much.

Their dad has had several years to show that the children are important and are an important part of his life. In that time he has made no space for them in his current home. They sleep on the sofa and share a single bed like guests not like a part of his family. This was when they used to go every other weekend and stay for the weekend. Now they don't even have space for them to do that.

Yes they will miss him and him them but it will be only temporary. I want them to complete their secondary education in the UK. We will come back for that but I think the amazing experiences will truly add value to that time away and my children will come back happier, more secure and with great memories. I will come back financially better off and able to give them the upbringing I wanted for them.

[BillMasen]

Would you allow him to move abroad and take them with him?

[BillMasen]

@Supereager

I doubt this will work but might as well try! Just say it’s a 12 month opportunity. Once you’re out there then just keep extending it

So basically lie that it’s temporary and then refuse to return. Great. Presume it’s ok if he does the same?