Shocked by LTB responses

[JoyandPeace]

There seem to be more and more posters advising women to leave their husbands / kick them out / get divorced.

What do other people think about this?

It's easy to advise someone to LTB when you don't have to consider the emotional, practical and financial implications of it.

For the majority of women (and men) who post here, it's the case that they have been in difficult, abusive or just unhappy marriages for years before they post. These are people who have tried, tried and tried again to keep it together and they have come to the end of their rope, which is why they are posting. It's their way of seeking permission to make the break. As always, what you see on here is a distorted and self-selecting sample. People who are happy in their relationships aren't going to come on here and post about it - they're out there living their best lives.

It isn't 'more and more posters' advising women to leave their husbands, it's the same as it's ever been.

If you read what these women and men post, the first post is often a testing of the waters. Later on, a lot more will emerge, making it clear the relationship is much worse than it seemed at first sight. If you've been in a long, deteriorating marriage, you're also likely to have lost the boundaries of what is normal and be putting up with things that are unacceptable.

Some relationships can and should be fixed; I'm not normally a LTB person, except where there is addiction involved. But it's often the case, when you read further, that these relationships are deeply dysfunctional.

There are definitely a small handful of people who seem to cry 'LTB' at the drop of a hat, but it is very much not the majority.

Hope this is helpful to you; I've been on MN for 10 years.

My experience is that by the time they're posting on MN about it, it's usually pretty far gone. There's very often a back story to the initial post and it takes a while for that to come out, not because OP is trying to drip feed, but because they've normalised so much of it that it takes time for them to realise this stuff is very relevant.

If you're in a happy and loving relationship, it would take more than anonymous internet people writing "LTB" to make you end it.

Good points.

I’m shocked because I’m some cases communicating and possibly counselling could really help move couples forwards but there are some threads where prompting the OP to leave seems to take on a whole new life of its own and the ‘issue’ being talked about becomes a reason for throwing a long, and generally ok relationship under the bus. And all at a time when many relationships are going to be under pressure due to the effects of COVID.

Don’t get me wrong, there are some posts which warrant a LTB reaction but not as many as I have seen IMO.

Absolutely @Kljnmw3459 and it makes me wonder if those posters would do the same in their relationship or perhaps have previously LTB and therefore feel others should too.

I think sometimes people don't think very far into the future. They aren't thinking about the long-term repercussions of the OP becoming a single parent, the potential loneliness, the reality of dating when you have children, the challenges of being part of a blended family, etc.

Everyone only offers advice from their viewpoint though.

There are behaviours that I wouldn't accept at all from my husband that would make me inclined to offer advice to another woman to LTB if she posted about it being a problem in her relationship.

At the same time I read some posts and think "That sounds just like Mr Griffin" and there's a chorus of LTB but it's not a deal breaker for me so I don't share or support that view.

Then there's a small handful of angry/hateful people who will chorus LTB at the first sign of less than perfect. Possibly because they're trolls, possibly because they're living vicariously through the internet and egging people on to leave relationships when they're trapped in an even worse one...or there's the folk that just like to see the world or at least other people's burn.

I like to think that in the noise those sorts of posts generate there's some real, helpful and heartfelt advice that the poster can use to improve what's making them so unhappy...sometimes that might just be LTB.

I've only seen ltb when it's been something really bad.

The thing is, with emotional abuse, gaslighting etc, counselling just doesn't work. You can't reason with an unreasonable person, and many times it's clear the OP has tried, tried and better tried to get their point across to their partner. I would never outright tell someone to LTB but if their situation mirrors one I have been in (and I LTB), then I'd get them to consider all their options rather than just putting up with it for the kids.

I've been more shocked at the crap women are putting up with/have become accustomed to than at the LTBs.

Posters so often say 'AIBU to expect him to come home on time?' when they actually mean 'I don't like him beating me up and kicking the cat when he's been on a bender, so I asked him to come straight home, now he's beating me up and kicking the cat anyway. How could I have avoided this?'

I think there is sometimes too much of a push for a resolution. Ending a marriage brings its logistical challenges, especially if OP hasn't worked and is financially entirely dependent. If there's no abuse then there needs to be more support of OP biding their time and preparing for their departure.

However, I disagree that there are many relationships on here which are fixable with communication and counselling - I'd say they are a minority. By the time the posts are on here, things are usually past that point.

Mmmmm I disagree, haven’t noticed more ltb but certainly more unhappy women than usual. I’d connect it to the pandemic, A LOT of people and relationships under stress atm

There are definitely too many LTBs on here. I have had some myself and in all honesty, at the time, it was good advice. What I, and most others, couldn't have predicted is that my particular "B" would go on to change almost everything about himself and become the man I always knew he was, and I am glad I didn't leave. I understand that mine is a very unusual situation and most men don't change, or they change for a short time and then go back to how they were acting before (this could still happen with me, I understand that), but I see so many LTBs for such minor infractions I'm surprised anyone stays married with so little willingness to work through problems.

@pointythings

For the majority of women (and men) who post here, it's the case that they have been in difficult, abusive or just unhappy marriages for years before they post. These are people who have tried, tried and tried again to keep it together and they have come to the end of their rope, which is why they are posting. It's their way of seeking permission to make the break. As always, what you see on here is a distorted and self-selecting sample. People who are happy in their relationships aren't going to come on here and post about it - they're out there living their best lives.

It isn't 'more and more posters' advising women to leave their husbands, it's the same as it's ever been.

If you read what these women and men post, the first post is often a testing of the waters. Later on, a lot more will emerge, making it clear the relationship is much worse than it seemed at first sight. If you've been in a long, deteriorating marriage, you're also likely to have lost the boundaries of what is normal and be putting up with things that are unacceptable.

Some relationships can and should be fixed; I'm not normally a LTB person, except where there is addiction involved. But it's often the case, when you read further, that these relationships are deeply dysfunctional.

There are definitely a small handful of people who seem to cry 'LTB' at the drop of a hat, but it is very much not the majority.

Hope this is helpful to you; I've been on MN for 10 years.

I would agree with this. It seems to me that coming on here and admitting failure is the last straw for most of us - I mean we read the stories don't we.. and say what we think from an out of the box viewpoint; while knowing sometimes that we may have a situation going on in our lives that we would not want to tell anyone about.

I think it's the shame of people knowing that you have been weak or stupid, or trodden down by life itself that stops you from putting an end to a situation you cannot see a solution for.

Yeah as above, I’ve been far more shocked by the stories of what some women think is normal vs the posters who tell ppl to ltb.

There was a poster somewhere on here today describing her relationship wondering what she should do to fix it...it literally sounded like he hated her, and she so wanted everything to be ok. I was like this

It's easy to look at someone's situation (which is only usually a snapshot of something shit that's happened - leaving out any good aspects of the relationship) and say leave.

What's not easy is when it's you, thinking about leaving someone you've been with ages, when you have a house and kids and nowhere else to go. It's bloody scary, and that's why people put up with a lot more than they probably should before they eventually leave.

I always find LTB comments supremely unhelpful, if I'm honest.

I agree OP. I also find it bizarre how people jump the gun and call out the husband having an affair, it's either LTB or sorry but it sounds like he's got someone else.

When you look at the doubling of the number of women being murdered by their partner / ex during lockdown it gives you an indication of what might be going on in cases where it hasn't escalated that far.

Being cooped up, scared of the virus, scared of losing work etc... It can make bad situations worse.

I've seen some horrific things on here over the past few months, I honestly hope that some of them are trolls. Sadly, many of them are real and it is heartbreaking. I think most people respond in good faith to what they have read.

"According to the Office for National Statistics, 1.3 million women aged between 16 and 59 suffered domestic abuse in the 12 months up to March 2018, an increase of 23 per cent from the previous year."

thecritic.co.uk/issues/november-2020/beating-the-rap/

That's a horrendous statistic.

Communication and counselling are a waste of time and money. If you get to the stage where you are asking for reasons to stay - the marriage or partnership is already dead in the water. An emotional or physical abuser won't change. The "LTB" is usually given because so many of us have seen these situations before and we know how it will end - so this advise is given to save the poster time.

I don't mind the amount of LTB posts - I think many, many posters start a thread because they're looking for validation that it's okay to leave. That it is fair and reasonable to prioritise their happiness and that of their children.

What I do find distasteful is posters who harass the OP for updates and seem to expect the OP to have kicked the offending spouse out and have filed for divorce within 24hrs of starting the thread. Unless the OP is in danger, taking some time to consider how to proceed is a sensible thing, no matter how annoying it might be for those who treat MN like a real time soap opera. That's when threads can cross a line from supportive to bullying.

This should be a place where women support each other and give advice from our own lived experiences, with compassion. When people start saying "you obviously are prioritising this wanker over your children, YOU'RE A TERRIBLE MOTHER" them all it does is make the OP feel shit and discouraged from posting further.

I think that if we heard the other person's side of the story there would be fewer LTB because some would become "what's the point of staying together?" Instead.

You can't have counselling with an abusive person. It doesn't work and creates more ammunition for abuse.

Personally it shocks me more how much shit some people put up with.

Its basically ppls own prejudice and hatred. Most of these commentators are also hypocrites as they will think differently depending on the gender of the person.
Sadly some OP's believe and act on this comments (and destroy their relationships on the back of it) thinking these commentators have their best interests at heart when they don't, they jsut want to give the DH a kicking.
People are hearing one side of a snippet of strangers lives and still feel comfortable saying LTB or calling the DH terrible names. It really tells you all you need to know about them and their attitudes.

There is a lot of projection on the relationship threads. I think some people are a bit irresponsible, urging women on to walk away rather than try to get to the root of problems. Look at the one about the 17-year relationship. Some posters very actively encouraging her to end it whenever she expresses concerns about being a bit trigger happy, getting cold feet. They all know what he is doing, they all know that it's the script etc. More about them than her.