Refuse USA move?

[usaornay]

My American husband has been dropping hints that he might run his company from the USA. We live in UK, I'm British. He's lived here for 25 years. Things have been rocky in our relationship but are currently ok. We have a young son. I don't know how the marriage will pan out in the long run. It's odd as he's just dropped hints, not outright asked if I would like to move to the states. I do not want to get stuck there if the marriage ended or I didn't like it and not be able to move back because my son then has the USA as his 'home'. I've not said anything yet. I don't want to cause issues at hints but equally don't want to be faced with a stand off if he suddenly starts planning. I am aware of the oddness that he's not asked me. I'm currently treading water in the relationship. Anyone know if there's a pre-move prenup that means I can come back with my son? Do I need to prepare to dig my heels in and stay in the UK no matter what?This is all very premature but I'd like a plan. All advice welcome Mumsnet.

No do not move toy will either be stuck in USA until your son is 18 or face one big and costly legal battle to get back to UK, the worst thing is that you may not even win the battle. Save yourself the energy, from a stuck mum in UK

No.

Never in a million years.

You won’t be able to bring your son back without his permission.

And... unless you were totally on board with a move, loved the idea of living in the States, etc etc - then there’s a pretty high chance it might make for marriage issues. Emigration is TOUGH. Even more so when you’re not equals in the move - he’d be going ‘home’ - you’d be on team back foot. He’d be working, building a network... you’d know no one. The power shift - that you’re there because of him and couldn’t leave with your son and he would know it ... not something I’d want to have as a marriage dynamic.

When the hints are dropped, just casually say, gosh no, couldn’t imagine it, wouldn’t want to live there, no.

and yes if he starts planning, you tell him quite plainly that you can’t stop him going, but you’re not going and not willing for your son to go either.

Don’t go. Once you are enrolled in schools, etc, you are considered a resident and due to Hague Convention it is virtually impossible to move kids from country of residence if parents split up. Stay put. Use Covid, Trump, anything you can as an excuse.

I live in the US with my American husband and agree with the previous advice. If he wants to sit down and talk about it properly, I think you should listen and weigh up the pros and cons- but hints aren't a proper conversation.

Re. Returning to the UK with your child. Look into how it works with dual citizenship, which your child would be entitled to. I don’t know what the implications are, but you may have a fight on your hands if you wanted to return to the UK. I know you would if your child was “just” American, but I’m not sure for dual nationality.

I’m happy enough and would only need to wait a few years before my youngest is 18 if I wanted to leave- but if you’re not keen to try life here, don’t!

@justilou1. Knows more about it- sounds like a definite no then.

Do you think he could be planning to go back on his own?

Why would anyone in their right mind want to move to the States at the moment? Seriously. It's beyond nuts. Hunker down as best you can and don't let him bamboozle you.

Thank you all. I needed to hear what I already know from other people. We wouldn't be moving now (I won't be moving) but I know offices are being set up etc and I'm protecting myself from a sudden 'Why didn't you say anything before!' scenario if he wants to start the moving procedure. I too believe hints are not a real conversation. Neither of us are fans of the politics over there. I can see I could end up in an awful situation. I think like @FizzyGreenWater says I'll reply negatively to the next hint. If it comes down to it I'll give a blunt no. When we got married we discussed this (him not going back to the states) and he said he considered himself english now. I'm sure this conversation will now have been 'forgotten'.

@Nanny0gg he's welcome to go on his own. I kind of wish he would, I don't think he'd leave his son. He can even go between the two countries when he's not covid grounded. Less is more! 😄

He should definitely talk to you about it properly.

But I also think if you marry a foreign national you should be open minded to the possibility of relocating to their country. Family issues can crop up requiring someone to care for an elderly parent etc. So I think it’s unfair for you to outright dismiss it just because.

@turnitonagain I'm not dismissing it 'just because', our relationship has been toxic. He's lived here 25 years (that's 19 years before we met), he is a British citizen and we discussed this very issue before marriage. My real concern is being stuck in USA with our child forever. I am thinking about it and this concern seems overwhelming and very real and he is not bringing it properly to the table (while buying business property) which is another worry.

I agree that in theory international couples should be prepared to be flexible, but this is unusual in that her DH is so settled in the U.K., they’ve previously discussed the issue and he wasn’t interested in moving, but now he seems to be making plans!

Our move to the US (also for a career opportunity) followed months of discussion and I was willing to do it. Returning to the U.K. is another major discussion, because I can’t just make plans and expect the family to follow- it’s quite possible that my children won’t want to, especially the eldest.

Seems like he is plannng to move op. As a pp poster said - an outright and plain "no, I would not like to live there" is required. The Hague Convention will not be your problem if you go, it will be you. It would be very hard for a mother to seperate her son from his dad. So, if you have no burning desire to become American then state it clearly and stay well away. Also, sounds like you should "cash out" of the marriage now. He is/will!

OK so toxic relationship is different. A friend’s sister went to the US with her husband and he left her for another woman. They were both not American. They went to court and she was able to take her DCs back to their home country in Europe. Kids were old enough to give their own views at that time though. So it’s possible.

Having said that though absolutely all details must be discussed so you can decide yes or no. Where in America, it’s a huge place! San Francisco would be so different from Atlanta.

I know many long time expats who after 20 years away returned “home” so the length of time gone doesn’t really matter. DH is from a different country than I am where I have no ties and don’t speak the language. But if we needed to I would live there. If I hadn’t been willing to I wouldn’t have married him.

Trust your gut instinct - you could end up being trapped in a country you don’t like and raising your child as an American.

Do not emigrate to another country if you don't want to, especially if it's your spouse's home country. Seriously, just don't.

I've moved all over the world, but every single time I saw it as an adventure that my husband and I were embarking on together. It comes with so many challenges. I can't even begin to list them all. Your entire world turns upside down, and it can be very lonely at times, even once you have been somewhere for years and made friends. All of this is fine if you're up for it, but if you feel you've been pushed into it then you won't cope well and it will make you hugely resentful of your husband. I don't like to think how it will affect your mental health.

I emigrated many years ago with DH and kids to DH's country of origin.
I had/have a very strong marriage but we were still tested and stressed by many factors in the early years. It was a fucking nightmare at times.
Absolutely no way I would've considered it if I'd even the slightest doubt about us staying together.
In a good relationship of course you should have a discussion when you come from different home countries. But if the relationship is shaky, you would be mad to go and risk not being able to leave with your child.

Rather than farting around getting worried about hints, can you not just say "You've been mentioning the US expansion a lot recently regarding your company. Have you been considering relocating?"

Make it an open question like that (rather than, for example, "You haven't been thinking of relocating have you?") as it sounds like he has form for weaselling out of things - he's more likely to tell the truth if he thinks you don't have an agenda already.

Do you think, given the marriage is rocky, there's a possibility in his head of him returning to the US with your son and leaving you here?

OP is there any reason you actually should move to the states?
Hide your passports 😳

I have always imagined living in the US. However lately you'd have to pay me!!! So I can list my reasons for you:

• no healthcare system
• guns everywhere! School shootings....
• you get little to no days off at work
• racism is rampant!
• Trump

We have lived abroad and will probably go again. If you don't feel comfortable about the idea of a certain country or about moving all together, you have to be very straightforward with your DH! It's a very big change, a very big commitment.

@grey12 Exactly my current sentiments. There are some thing's I love about the states, not so much lately.

@Monty27 He wouldn't take our son from me. He could exit the company in the next few years so no real reason to go... unless he wants to be home in the USA for a divorce and this is the way he gets his son there too. I think the reality is he would probably stay married and ignore me. I am the unhappy ignored one.

I agree @EvenMoreFuriousVexation in a healthy relationship the direct approach you mention is exactly what I would say. This is not where I find myself and I don't want to rock the boat when things are even at the moment. I'm treading on eggshells and while I do life is fine for the minute. It's hard enough with covid etc etc.

We have loved pets, what happens to them? This is why things need to be openly discussed. I think he's living in a fantasy if he thinks he can slip us over there with no planning. It's quite clear no one is going anywhere in covid so I think I need to settle down and stop worrying.

@howdoyoudo1 I'm so sorry you're stuck here.

OP, your illustration of your relationship sounds dire. Even if you were considering a move from Exeter to Edinburgh I’d say no as you’ve got such a rocky sounding marriage on what is currently a stable foundation.

As a PP said you need to ask him outright what these hints are about and get him to state clearly what is something that’s evidently on his mind.

Being blunt, a real outcome could be that you stay and he goes, either ending your marriage immediately or giving it a slow mercy killing.

But as harsh as this sounds, I dare you to consider the positives of this as it could be the “out” it sounds like your marriage may need.

He just might not want to do the heavy lifting on this meaning by being the “bad guy” and not wanting to go, you may actually be offering him the path of least resistance and a chance for you and your son to just get on and live without the toxic dynamic you’ve said your in right now.

How old is your son? How important is it to you that he grows up British instead of American?

If your marriage is bad I would avoid so e it will be hard to return alone with your son. Additionally he may not want to go in a few years if he’s settled and views himself as American. I’ve seen this happen.

We have loved pets, what happens to them?

It’s ridiculously easy to bring pets to the USA (not so much the reverse though)

@SoPanny I just can't see him moving away from our son, he loves him, he also wouldn't take him away from me. I think he could see me unhappy in another country and not care. He knows our son needs me. I guess if he can cajole me to the states then he could have a winning situation for himself but not for me. I'm spotting the signs and I'm not going to go. When he exits his company he will be able to easily move between the UK and USA (apart from covid issues) and I think that that is what he should be planning for if he doesn't want to stay here. That or a miracle marriage cure, anyone know one?