DH is not who I thought I married. Has anyone stuck it out and been ok?

[Lostinacloud]

My head is all over the place at the moment and I don’t feel I can talk to anyone in real life so I am hoping someone here has some experience and can offer some advice.

When DH and I met about 17 years ago, we lived far apart from each other the whole time but we made it work for 5 years before we got married and finally moved in together.
Before we got married I only saw him for weekends and holidays and we had brilliant fun. He was energetic, exciting, really sociable, up for going on lots of days out and a genuinely fun and loving guy.
However, over the years (we have now been married for over 10 years and have 3DC) I have realised that I only saw the “weekend and holidays” DH and not who he actually is 90% of the time. When we have friends over or go to see family, pre marriage DH returns and he is relaxed, sociable, funny and helpful but when we are alone then he is really quite boring, always tired, always stressed, very focused on his own life and he rarely wants to do anything at weekends and almost gets annoyed when I bring up holiday ideas - although does usually have fun once on holiday.
Saying that, I have occasionally started taking the DC for days out without him because I feel we have more fun. When he comes, he almost seems to look for a way to spoil the mood and starts yelling at them to mind the roads or that they were not looking where they were going. His mum is the same if we go out with her so I assume that was his example growing up. It certainly wasn’t mine though so is alien to me and I hate how it ruins the mood and the DC’s excitement visibly lowers.

He also angers easily and if we have an argument he quickly decides that I am being unreasonable and attacking him and gets very defensive or dismissive. He is never violent to me or the kids but in the earlier days more than now, he did used to get stupidly angry and occasionally damage a toy or a door. Now he tends to just go out alone to calm down so is trying to address his temper.

I know the above makes him sound awful and anyone reading will quickly decide that I would be better off without him but it’s nothing like that simple.

He adores me and he lives for our DC. I know to my core that everything he does and works so hard to achieve is actually completely for all of us and we do have a comfortable home and have experienced some great opportunities because of his job and how hard he has worked to raise through the ranks.

However, I find myself increasingly wondering if life would be more enjoyable if I had married someone a bit less ambitious and so more relaxed and fun and without such an incessant striving for improvement. As the DC get older and he has more influence on them I also start to worry that his almost obsessive determination that things can always be improved will have a negative impact on them as they never feel good enough. My oldest DC is 12 and yesterday at dinner I winced inside as he proudly told DH that he had been given a start of term assessment grade of just one under the top mark and so had started great and still had room to make the top by the end of the year and DH basically said that surely he should be top already. DH didn’t seem to notice that our DC immediately withdrew from the conversation and that it had a negative effect on his confidence. In fact I find myself constantly mopping up after DH’s confidence attacks and in doing so I almost have to paint my DC’s own father as wrong and with unrealistic expectations. How long do I let this go on for and is this actually healthy for them? To have two parents who aren’t unified?
My DH also has, to me, what seems like a completely crazy idea that nobody can ever make a mistake and that if you do then you should berate yourself for at least the rest of the day. This will apply to making a wrong turn in a new area of town, forgetting to bring something along on a trip and so I now find myself being asked by my DC “not to tell daddy” that their water bottle has gone missing or they’ve left their coat at school. Is this ok? On one hand at least they can tell me and I feel I act more reasonably and we focus more on ways to look for the items rather than focus on the fact they’ve been lost but on the other hand I am now keeping secrets from my husband so we all have an easier life and he doesn’t end up going on at them for 20 minutes about how they don’t care about their stuff and if they did then it wouldn’t be lost or forgotten. I have actually tried to talk to DH about this point but he absolutely 100% cannot see it from any other perspective and thinks he is totally right and that mistakes or things forgotten are always deliberate and mean you are not good enough. As a strong woman, anytime he has tried to imply the same to anything I have forgotten, I can just tell him to shut up but the DC can’t do that so is it ok to leave them in this environment?

Despite all the above, the DC do love DH and would be absolutely devastated if we were to split up. It would certainly not be an easy road for all of us and I know it would also devastate DH as he does live for our DC and at times is bloody excellent with them and in honestly is much better at playing with them for hours than I am.

Has anyone had similar experience where their DH is not horrific and does work hard for their family and yet they have left and found they were happier, or conversely not happier?
Or has anyone had a similar experience and decided to truck on at least until the DC are older and then see where they’re at?

I’m not saying I’m unhappy all of the time and like any marriage ours has its ups and downs and ours has been ups for the majority of the years. I am also very sociable and can build quite a busy life for myself that brings me happiness but on down days I wonder if that is healthy as I end up organising so much time to not include him?

Sorry this is long but I needed to paint the whole picture and hope someone might have had similar experiences and not necessarily decided to leave.

It’s just as they get older that I notice some of his over competitive, no mistakes and must do better attitude creeps into some situations and conversations with them and i don’t want them to feel like their best effort isn’t good enough.

Is he aware he's doing it? If his childhood was like that perhaps it's unconscious pattern he's fallen into. I'd start with pointing it out and talking about the effect on your children and your concerns. See where that gets you - if he's unaware and wiling to adjust thats a different situation to dismissing entire idea there's a problem.

My Dad refused to aknowlege any issue with his behavior to any of us - my Mum sometimes can change - I once pushed back on always making a point about telling me before meeting new people that I was shit with people - pointed out how unhelpful it was and TBF she's never done it since just took time to get the voice out my own head telling me that.

OP sorry no time to read the PP. Just posting re. what happened to your 12 year old at the dinner table. Your DH behaved appallingly - I would have slapped his face and screamed at him. Poor child. I hate that - so damaging. Don't let that sort of thing go on.

I'm in a very similar situation. Had my first doubts ten years ago after the birth of our first child.should have got out then! He's not a bad man but he has done a lot of emotional damage to the kids and me. He's working hard to change things but the core of the person he is won't change. Just before the lockdown I was determined I'd finally leave him. I was looking for rentals and everything.When I told him though he cried and begged for days until I gave in.II know I should leave for my own sake but I don't think ever will. I haven't heard many similar stories that end up happily. Behaviour like that is really hard to change. You are similar to me and making excuses for him. I hate it when people give me their honest opinion on this.I know they are right but it hurts too much to see how much better it could be but knowing I'm so brainwashed I can't get out. Good luck op. I hope you manage to make your life the kind where you feel like you're partner is your safe haven rather than a cause of family problems.

OP, please consider looking up Unrelenting Standards - Schema Therapy. This might help you understand his behaviour and help you shape conversations with him about addressing it.

During my therapy journey I met many young people who had parents like your DH and they were suffering mental health problems as a result. So many operating on the narrative that being a perfectionist is a good thing, when in fact it has the potential to be terribly damaging. Your kids are very lucky that you, as the engaged parent, are not pushing this message.

I don't understand people you have to leave as he is damaging the children. They say that as if leaving will remove his influence from their life. As if they will never see him again.

Leaving won't stop him being an influence or him damaging them. He will still be their Dad. They will still see him, with a presumption of 50% contact.

I have persuaded my children's dad to seek psychological support to work on himself. I don't know what he is getting but I know he is getting something.

And he has responded to contact from a Family Support Worker (which I arranged), with the aim that that will work on his interactions with his children.

I have no idea if this will help or not. Like your DH my kids' dad has a strong belief he is always right and this may block him from making any progress at all. But I have to try something, so this is it. And the family support worker said it is very positive that he has agreed to speak with her as Dads rarely engage. So we'll see.

Struck a bit of a cord with me OP as it sounds a lot like my DM. Always pushing me harder, I got an A, why not a A. Bob down the road got an A, he must have worked harder etc. My DDad sat quietly. No challenge. No congrats from him.

It left me feeling very insecure. I pushed myself really hard. I was successful but had no confidence. Always doubting myself. My DM was eventually proud of my success in the workplace but I always felt lacking in other areas and as I got older I started to pull away from both my DM and DDad as nothing I achieved ever felt good enough. Sometimes I think she bullied my DDad too and that’s why he never stood up to her. I kind of resent him for that tbh.

Think about what this criticism and negativity is doing to your DC. This sort of home environment can have lasting effects.

I don't know. But I read once, if your partner is more than 51% "good", it's better to stay than to leave.

Er, no. What % of your otherwise delicious sandwich filling should be shit? How many spoonfuls of shit would you like in your coffee?

I think it’s very telling that, increasingly, in order for you and the kids to feel truly at ease enough to have genuine fun, you have to engineer outings without him.

You should pay more attention to what this means.

Younger children may still spend 50% with dad, but older children/teens may well start voting with their feet. That's why the ideal would be if he were to change his behaviour a bit, whether as a result of being left or as the result of an ultimatum, as he's going to be around them some of the time. It may be very little though as no teenager wants to be around hyper-critical dad and also teenagers are much more prone to shouting back than just accepting it so it can be a time of much greater conflict with 'dad who has to be right', I think.

I mean, I just avoided my dad whilst living in the same house as him in the teen years, I don't think we spoke more than a few practical sentences (can I have a lift) in many years. I was really glad when my parents got divorced just after I left home.

My exH was like this. I divorced him before he could do lasting damage to our dc.

My dd hasn’t seen him/spoken to him for ten years and my ds loathes him and hasn’t seen him for about the same time period.

@neversayalways

*I don't understand people you have to leave as he is damaging the children. They say that as if leaving will remove his influence from their life. As if they will never see him again.

Leaving won't stop him being an influence or him damaging them. He will still be their Dad. They will still see him, with a presumption of 50% contact.*

Well that's true. but by staying with him and trying to 'keep the peace', the other parent tacitly endorses that behaviour. If separated, the children have at least one home where they can feel supported and safe, and they have an alternative perspective - that their dad's way isn't necessarily the right way/the only way. And as they grow older, they'll be able to vote with their feet and see less of the parent who makes them feel like shit - impossible if the other parent is still clinging on 'for the kids'.

My ex was similar, outwardly fun loving to others in the house a miserable sod. used to berate me for 'doing something wrong' then started on daughter as she got older, she ended up hating him and now has no contact with him whatsoever. Anyway he had an affair and i got rid of him best thing i ever did.

Well, my dad had a combination of an awful temper and impossible to please. Being the oldest I took the full brunt of it. I'd get a slap for so many things, mainly related to being somewhat clumsy. But if he left a mug lying on the floor and I kicked it over, it was always my fault for the kicking and not his for leaving it in a stupid place.

I was clever and good at a certain sport, but if I wasn't top of the class or always winning, it was 'why aren't you better?' My first relationships were shit because I found myself abusive aresholes who were basically like my dad.

I still have appalling self esteem even though I'm old, from nothing ever being good enough for him and I can still vividly remember the last time he slapped me.

The balance tipped in my favour when he had an affair and my parents' marriage broke up. All the negativity he'd built up in me pretty much ensured that I also had a ferocious temper and he got to feel the full force for a good few years. I will say that he's much better with his second family but I didn't actually speak to him properly for about 5 years.

Do you want your children to be like me, have the self esteem problems, the walking on eggshells constantly so as not to upset him, never feeling good enough? If so, just carry on doing what you're doing now.

Your DH's behaviour around the children is a real concern. His negative critical response to their successes, his intolerance of trivial mistakes and his barely controlled anger are all damaging to them. The fact that the children are asking you to hide their mistakes from him is concerning, it damages your marriage and also your children's relationship with their father and their idea of how family life should work. Could you have a calm but very serious conversation with him about the effect his inappropriate behaviour is having on the children and their relationship with him - perhaps without "naming names" about which child has asked you to not tell him things? And would he consider family counselling? The children need to be heard.

Could be OCPD or autism or something similar, my father is rather similar (though not as physically aggressive) and my mother had a penny-drop moment after my DS was diagnosed with an ASC. As children we had issues which meant my parents got family therapy and after that my father's interactions with us did improve. At the time ASCs weren't known about, but my father had a lot of anxieties and rigidities. For what it's worth my parents were a mutually devoted couple until her death but my mother did not have an easy time.

Well that's true. but by staying with him and trying to 'keep the peace', the other parent tacitly endorses that behaviour

My post wasn't about endorsing the behaviour. It was about seeing if the Father can be persuaded to engage in a package of support that will enable him to gain insight into his behaviour and learn strategies to change his behaviour. Being as he will always be their Dad surely its best if he gets support to stop being such a colossal arse. Its a least worth a shot, whether or not the parents separate.

And yes teenagers can just refuse to see their Father but there will be a whole world of pain behind that choice. Its better if the Father learns to recognise his damaging behaviour and change it so that it never comes to that.

Its worth a shot.

There is also a book called Mindset by Carol Dweck who is a researcher who specialises in Growth mindset. It describes the damage that is created by the fixed mindset your DH is encouraging your children to have.
Unfortunately I don't think it is a terribly well written book - but it certainly hammers home her central message. May be worth seeing if he will read it?

Whatever the reasons for him behaving like he does, it is still not acceptable regardless.

OP in her initial post stated that DHs mother behaves similarly so this is more than likely learnt behaviour from her. Parental influence is itself powerful.

And does anyone think here that OPs DH will at all engage in any form of counselling?. I hope I am wrong here but I sincerely doubt it given his overall attitude. He also seems to present a very different image to those in the outside world; image is all important to such types.

I’d also recommend counselling. Your husband reminds me of my friend’s husband. Very high achieving man who (as a child) was locked in his bedroom by his parents until he did his homework etc.

He’s tried to be better with his kids but has crazy high expectations of them and doesn’t get why the youngest fights against it (despite being very bright).

He’s riddled with anxiety and I can feel your husband’s anxieties across the internet.

He needs to deal with his perfectionist tendencies. It’s exhausting.

I never thought my kids' dad would, but he did.

I am not sure what constructive outcome there will be in writing this off as an option without even trying. When you are talking about one of the two most significant people in a child's life I think it is absolutely worth exploring as an option. If it doesn't work at least OP will know she tried everything she could to help her kids have a functioning father. I certainly thought my kids were worth pushing their Dad to get help.

Parental influence is itself powerful

Couldn't agree more - hence everything I have posted...

My father was like this (and a total bully when my mother was out). My mother made all of the same excuses for his behaviour (‘he’s stressed’, ‘he works so hard for you’, ‘he doesn’t mean it’). It has mentally scarred myself and my sibling. As children and young adults, we were both very high achieving, had friends etc. However, the abuse can take years to show and my crippling self esteem issues caused me to become a magnet for bullies at work. I’ve allowed myself to accept very low standards in relationships because my mother trained me to accept that from my father. I’ve had to have years of counselling. I have as little as possible to do with both my parents now.

Parents are meant to build up their children - make them feel confident and happy in themselves, so that they can deal with life’s stresses and unpleasant people. Parents are meant to tell their children that they’re great, just as they are. Your husband might sometimes ‘play nice’ with them, but he doesn’t do any of this important work and he sure as hell let’s them know they’re not good enough. Any efforts you make to mother your children will be cancelled out (and then some) by your husband’s bullying behaviour.

Was DH the eldest in the family - repeating the treatment with DS1?

He adores me and he lives for our DC. I know to my core that everything he does and works so hard to achieve is actually completely for all of us and we do have a comfortable home and have experienced some great opportunities because of his job and how hard he has worked to raise through the ranks.

And yet the consensus here seems to be that this guy is a deleterious influence and the only possible, even responsible, response is to, "show him the front door".

I feel sorry for him. He's clearly been wasting his life. Perhaps he'll realise that his uncompromising mindset is misplaced where his family are concerned and that he'll find no room for it there. He needs to re-map his outlook and vision and find a more meaningful and focused direction for his driven ethics. I could think of a dozen organisation that would keenly welcome somebody with such a sharp sense of purpose and commitment. Domestically I’d compartmentize, and take a more detached and considered approach. And I would assay all eventualities too.