DH is not who I thought I married. Has anyone stuck it out and been ok?

[Lostinacloud]

My head is all over the place at the moment and I don’t feel I can talk to anyone in real life so I am hoping someone here has some experience and can offer some advice.

When DH and I met about 17 years ago, we lived far apart from each other the whole time but we made it work for 5 years before we got married and finally moved in together.
Before we got married I only saw him for weekends and holidays and we had brilliant fun. He was energetic, exciting, really sociable, up for going on lots of days out and a genuinely fun and loving guy.
However, over the years (we have now been married for over 10 years and have 3DC) I have realised that I only saw the “weekend and holidays” DH and not who he actually is 90% of the time. When we have friends over or go to see family, pre marriage DH returns and he is relaxed, sociable, funny and helpful but when we are alone then he is really quite boring, always tired, always stressed, very focused on his own life and he rarely wants to do anything at weekends and almost gets annoyed when I bring up holiday ideas - although does usually have fun once on holiday.
Saying that, I have occasionally started taking the DC for days out without him because I feel we have more fun. When he comes, he almost seems to look for a way to spoil the mood and starts yelling at them to mind the roads or that they were not looking where they were going. His mum is the same if we go out with her so I assume that was his example growing up. It certainly wasn’t mine though so is alien to me and I hate how it ruins the mood and the DC’s excitement visibly lowers.

He also angers easily and if we have an argument he quickly decides that I am being unreasonable and attacking him and gets very defensive or dismissive. He is never violent to me or the kids but in the earlier days more than now, he did used to get stupidly angry and occasionally damage a toy or a door. Now he tends to just go out alone to calm down so is trying to address his temper.

I know the above makes him sound awful and anyone reading will quickly decide that I would be better off without him but it’s nothing like that simple.

He adores me and he lives for our DC. I know to my core that everything he does and works so hard to achieve is actually completely for all of us and we do have a comfortable home and have experienced some great opportunities because of his job and how hard he has worked to raise through the ranks.

However, I find myself increasingly wondering if life would be more enjoyable if I had married someone a bit less ambitious and so more relaxed and fun and without such an incessant striving for improvement. As the DC get older and he has more influence on them I also start to worry that his almost obsessive determination that things can always be improved will have a negative impact on them as they never feel good enough. My oldest DC is 12 and yesterday at dinner I winced inside as he proudly told DH that he had been given a start of term assessment grade of just one under the top mark and so had started great and still had room to make the top by the end of the year and DH basically said that surely he should be top already. DH didn’t seem to notice that our DC immediately withdrew from the conversation and that it had a negative effect on his confidence. In fact I find myself constantly mopping up after DH’s confidence attacks and in doing so I almost have to paint my DC’s own father as wrong and with unrealistic expectations. How long do I let this go on for and is this actually healthy for them? To have two parents who aren’t unified?
My DH also has, to me, what seems like a completely crazy idea that nobody can ever make a mistake and that if you do then you should berate yourself for at least the rest of the day. This will apply to making a wrong turn in a new area of town, forgetting to bring something along on a trip and so I now find myself being asked by my DC “not to tell daddy” that their water bottle has gone missing or they’ve left their coat at school. Is this ok? On one hand at least they can tell me and I feel I act more reasonably and we focus more on ways to look for the items rather than focus on the fact they’ve been lost but on the other hand I am now keeping secrets from my husband so we all have an easier life and he doesn’t end up going on at them for 20 minutes about how they don’t care about their stuff and if they did then it wouldn’t be lost or forgotten. I have actually tried to talk to DH about this point but he absolutely 100% cannot see it from any other perspective and thinks he is totally right and that mistakes or things forgotten are always deliberate and mean you are not good enough. As a strong woman, anytime he has tried to imply the same to anything I have forgotten, I can just tell him to shut up but the DC can’t do that so is it ok to leave them in this environment?

Despite all the above, the DC do love DH and would be absolutely devastated if we were to split up. It would certainly not be an easy road for all of us and I know it would also devastate DH as he does live for our DC and at times is bloody excellent with them and in honestly is much better at playing with them for hours than I am.

Has anyone had similar experience where their DH is not horrific and does work hard for their family and yet they have left and found they were happier, or conversely not happier?
Or has anyone had a similar experience and decided to truck on at least until the DC are older and then see where they’re at?

I’m not saying I’m unhappy all of the time and like any marriage ours has its ups and downs and ours has been ups for the majority of the years. I am also very sociable and can build quite a busy life for myself that brings me happiness but on down days I wonder if that is healthy as I end up organising so much time to not include him?

Sorry this is long but I needed to paint the whole picture and hope someone might have had similar experiences and not necessarily decided to leave.

I think the picture you have painted sounds like quite a few men who seem to transgress into another person when married with DC! I just wonder if he is stressed out at work and taking it home to you all . Do you work as well ? I am not excusing his behaviour as he sounds quite frightful ,but just wondering why he behaves badly when he was relaxed and happy when you both met.I certainly feel that some counselling will help .It is certainly not acceptable for him to upset your DC(or you either!) but the long term effect his behaviour has on them could be detrimental to their future development ,which would be worrying .

Ok. Yes, my DD's father is like that. Everything has to be someone's fault. Days out not fun as he would be annoyed about things (or just make it obvious he didn't want to go). He has a bad temper and would shout at me and our DD. I felt I was walking on eggshells and he would gaslight me too, making every argument my fault.

I left, as all that meant I just didn't love him anymore and couldn't bring myself to have sex with him (I have a decent sex drive which returned after I left).

Yes, my life has been better since I left. However you state that you still love your husband, which means perhaps you could try counselling with him? Or you could parent together but live apart, if you want the best bits without the rest. Obviously that depends on finances too...

I meant to add that my dd struggles with her relationship with her dad. She often says she doesn't like him. It's sad.

I think family counselling would be a game changer for you

He adores me and he lives for our DC.

If that were true he would damn well treat his children and you better. His actions paint a very different picture to your protestations.

Nothing in life is simple. Nothing.

For example, children desperately love parents who beat the shit out of them. That doesn't mean those children should be left in the care of those parents.

The fact that life is complicated is not an excuse to leave children in a mentally destructive environment that will damage their life chances.

This kind of reminds me of my exh. WRT family days out etc he got a lot better when he had to organise them himself and actually progressed as a parent in time.

The walking on eggshells I would want to address as a priority as essentially you and the dc are scared to report mistakes due to repercussions. The options are probably either confront him head on about this or just collectively start ignoring him but you need to talk to the kids about this first.

Please, please don't collectively ignore him. This was the advice my ex-MIL gave to me. This is why my ex grow up thinking moodiness and temper were fine, because people could simply ignore it if they didn't like it.

I grew up with a father like this - he was determined to be miserable and to find fault with everything when we had days out anywhere, seemed to be incapable of relaxing and enjoying himself, and had terrifying, vein-popping outbursts of temper at unpredictable moments. It was like being around a semi-domesticated bear, not knowing if he was going to be ok or if it was going to be one of the days when he "went off". He did eventually see a doctor and was diagnosed with hypertension, which explained the bad temper but not the Eeyore tendencies.

All I can say now is that I wish my mum had stood up for us at the time. It will be affecting your kids if they feel like their own dad finds them irritating and doesn't even seem to like having them around.

It sounds as if covid has caused extra probs here because the restrictions stop him from interacting with other families and seeing that other Dads, role models for him, don't carp at every missed test point and forgotten pair of socks.

It's also the sort of thing that management training at work might convey - as if you have to reflect upon your behaviour on one area it can prompt you to consider it in another.

When you bring it up it's not going to be a talk he welcomes.
You're having the talk, though, because you still see the man you fell in love with in there sometimes and you still see qualities in him that are good and worthy of respect - so, in true shit-sandwich style, leading with that might help! After all if you thought he was completely beyond hope - you'd just leave.

Then tell him that if he loves you and the kids, he'll listen, really listen. And then ask him first about his own childhood and how he felt. Ask him what impact he thinks (specific behaviour X) has on people. How he would feel if people treated him that way. And then listen. But be prepared to say... "You said blah but, you know, if your boss did that would you really be happy and work harder?..." Etc

You don't want him to feel trapped, you want to encourage him to work things out for himself because that's how true change happens.

But ... you probably do want to be clear about the "I loved the man you were, but what's going on now makes me unhappy and if it carries on I will get a divorce" - we hear so many tales of men who don't take things seriously until they've killed all love and respect. Be clear.

is this actually healthy for them? To have two parents who aren’t unified?

You are standing up for them which my mother never did when my dad was being a wanker to me. You're doing the right thing by doing that.

He shouldn't be making your DC that anxious about lost items etc.

@Saggyoldsofa

Please, please don't collectively ignore him. This was the advice my ex-MIL gave to me. This is why my ex grow up thinking moodiness and temper were fine, because people could simply ignore it if they didn't like it.

Absolutely. When DH and I were dating he was having a complete meltdown and it was absolutely ridiculous and MIL told me (she was there) to just "leave it". Which caused ME to lose it at her. DH learnt to change and modify his behaviour but until I came along, he honestly didn't realise it was a problem because everyone around him had just said, "aaah, that's just [Name], he can't help himself." Astonishing.

I am taking everything posted here on board and can’t thank you all enough for taking the time to reply because it has been a lonely process.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I do understand what you are conveying and I promise you that I am strong enough to stand up to him. I think you are right and that, although I have always told him his behaviour is unacceptable at the worst times, I was willing to move on if he showed a willingness to change.

@User008767 your advice has really struck a chord with me and I will do exactly as you suggest and tell him straight what I have issue with and that it is a red line for me. All the stories from the DC’s point of view have also cemented in my mind that the situation cannot continue for the well-being if our DC. At the end of the day, they are the most important factor and I cannot let their future lives be shaped by this.

Many of you are right though, there are many aspects of DH i still love and admire and if he relaxed a bit and took the pressure of we could have a great life together for which I would feel very lucky to have been able to have in later years.
It is the worry and thoughts that my feelings for him may be slowly extinguishing because of some of his behaviour that is making things very confusing and difficult at the moment and prompted me to finally post on here for some advice.

I am also very sociable and can build quite a busy life for myself that brings me happiness but on down days I wonder if that is healthy as I end up organising so much time to not include him?

I relate to your experience. I did what you describe here for 10 whole years. Worst mistake of my life really. I was emotionally in a cryogenic sleep and awakening was exceedingly painful.

It is the worry and thoughts that my feelings for him may be slowly extinguishing because of some of his behaviour that is making things very confusing and difficult at the moment and prompted me to finally post on here for some advice.

This is a very telling point. Your DH is killing your love for him with his behaviour and that means you are at a tipping point. Doing nothing and keeping the peace isn't an option any more.

I hope you find the strength to confront him firmly and politely and draw your line in the sand, and for your sake I hope the outcome is a positive one. But be prepared for it to be otherwise.

Hi OP - haven't read the full thread but your posts. I have a very similar DP and I found this really interesting: www.healthline.com/health/obsessive-compulsive-personality-disorder#:~:text=Obsessive%2Dcompulsive%20personality%20disorder%20(OCPD)%20is%20a%20personality%20disorder,standards%20on%20their%20outside%20environment.

Like you when I felt that his angry outbursts were affecting my child I told him he sorts it out or we were breaking up. He is now having therapy, which I know is difficult for him and I didn't have to hassle him to do it or keep it up. Of course he now worries he isn't doing the therapy 'right' or as well as he should do(!!) - it really is his personality, and that's incredibly hard for him but for those who have to live with him too.

Like you I know that he isn't a horrible person, and he does love us. And he works himself ragged for us.

But like you I know that isn't enough, and I have to keep a watch on how his behaviour is affecting my daughter, and so does he. And if it deteriorates, if he doesn't keep it under control as he is now doing, I will not hesitate to leave him because I will NOT have my kids walking on eggshells in a shouty, angry home or being made to feel they're not good enough exactly how they are.

I'll read the rest of this thread with interest to see if others have useful advice for maintaining a strong family with someone of this personality type.

It sounds like you still have a lot of love and two good people at the core of your marriage. I know people on here are very quick to say 'leave' based on a snapshot, so take it with a pinch of salt. He had a temper and has learned to control it - growth. It's not a personality failing to have a hot temper as long as you can get a handle on it. He sounds like a good dad that loves his kids but is fucking it up sometimes. So are you probably in other ways. So am I probably. I really think counselling and maybe a parenting course might be the way forward. It'll be a hard conversation to have but the reward of a stable home for your kids will hopefully be worth it.

Oh and by the way, I wouldn't bring the fact he's changed into it to be honest. We are all our 'weekend and holiday' selves when we first meet and are dating. Real life gets in the way. I used to be bubbly and pretty and very easygoing. Now I'm overweight, tired and always worrying about something. It's just how real life (and kids) gets you sometimes. As long as you can still have those times of scraping yourself up and having a 'weekend and holiday' time then I'd say it's very normal.

Personally I’d want to go back to the long distance relationship and have him move out. He could see you and the children when he’s in a good mood which would limit the damage he does. Don’t make your children grow up with an angry and controlling father.

He sounds a bit like my father, OP. Not exactly but there are enough similarities. In my case our mother prioritised my father's moods over the children's confidence and it all wound up having very detrimental effects in adulthood, as I didn't have anyone telling me as a child that being yelled at was not my fault, or that making mistakes is okay, and had to figure all of that stuff out as an adult. I'm glad you are handling it differently than my mother did!

If he is anything like my father, then I think maybe directly TELLING him that he's damaging his children would have an impact. But it would take that level of directness.

My father eventually stopped shouting at me, and my siblings, one day when I was an adult when he lost it with me and I stared him down. It was like he suddenly saw what he was doing and became ashamed of it. He literally stopped the behaviour overnight. I was in a headspace of something like cold rage and contempt.

I'm not sure why I told you that story. I think it's something like: you need to hold your ground when you talk to him. Don't get upset or emotional, he'll use that to convince himself you're wrong. Be very strong, be very direct, tell him he's hurting his kids.

Also if he'd be willing to read a book, then Carol Dwecker's Mindset is a great antidote to this way of thinking. It would be good for you to read it too, it can give you some strategies to repair any damage to the children's confidence.

Nobody can really advise you what to do (of course) but I really related to much of what you said, it made my breathing quicken, actually and I felt compelled to respond because you sound so sad and fed up.

My H was similar to yours, not in every way - probably 'better' in some ways and worse in others. We are separating, just waiting to physically move at the moment, but before this happened I felt very much like you to the point where I realised there was just no love there any more.

When I eventually told him I wanted to separate the first time (2 years ago) I assumed he'd have seen it coming but he was gutted, suddenly realised he was depressed and got counselling and saw the GP for anit-depressants in a bid to turn things around. It was really good for him and he DID change in lots of ways. He now has much more energy and is loads closer to the kids. Crucially, he became much easier to talk to, because the 'nobody can make a mistake thing' used to be ridiculously hard to challenge and I would find myself covering up stuff in a bid to not be criticised. He became much more approachable and I know this is a big benefit to the kids as it's no way for them (yours or mine) to experience childhood.

All of that said, it didn't change the hardwiring of my H. He is still who he is and we are still very different in our attitudes and core personality traits - in what we think matters and is right, in how we think (or don't think!) about other people's feelings and the behaviours we display.
For me, once that light went on, I couldn't unsee everything and things he had done/not done/made me feel in the past changed my feelings towards him. There was no love left from my side and I eventually decided that to stay would be putting his preferences and convenience above my own happiness and ultimately that of our children, as I wasn't me when I was feeling so miserable and lost - and it also wasn't the relationship I wanted to model to them.

It hasn't been easy by any stretch, but in the absence of being in a healthy marriage, I realised it was better to not be married at all and that two happy homes were better than one unhappy one.

It's a huge process, but I fear that somewhere along the way (like me) you've gradually become accustomed to putting his needs, mood, temper, feelings, preferences before your own and even your kids, and that's something you want to address. Maybe you could do some counselling just for you to talk it all through?

Whatever you decide for the moment, you need to start being really honest about how unhappy you are with him, otherwise you'll either stay in a marriage that has very unhealthy dynamics or you'll split up anyway because he has no reason to change. By that I mean if it's always been this way for him, why would he bother to try? He should, of course, but he obviously isn't particularly thoughtful/giving as a person. (Remember this is entirely separate from wanting to be married and practically providing for your kids.)

Good luck

I think counselling could help too. One thing I would say is if you’re DH tends to blame it all on you or twist situations to make it seem you’re the one at fault, make it individual counselling. The reality is many people suggested couples counselling to us, but I knew it would end up with my DH playing the victim. I was right - it was even a stumbling block in individual counselling when he twisted it so I ended up being told (through him) that his counsellor said that I couldn’t make conversation about certain normal topics in the evening (think philosophy, psychology etc). I said very clearly, I’ve always chatted about topics that interest me and you knew that before the vows, I am not changing a normal part of my personality for you. It became clear he’d manipulated that counsellor and needed to change a few weeks later, which he did. With The second counsellor p, he went in honestly and (surprise surprise) realised he needed to change a huge amount of behaviour and was recognised as having serious enough issues to be referred for group therapy sessions as well.

I just tell this story because couples counselling is fine when the issues are from both sides and both sides can calmly discuss these issues and change them. (Yes, each side can always change something, but sometimes one side is making an effort and the other isn’t) However, it isn’t always helpful when one person needs to work on their own big issues that stem from their own thought patterns and personal history. On the plus side, our marriage isn’t super easy all the time, but it’s hugely improved and the issues are now absolutely recognised and continue to be worked on.

Reading all the replies with great interest.

DH and I are both perfectionists, with extremely high standards of ourselves and others. It's led to some stressful and miserable situations in the past, and I do recognise some of myself in your description of your DHs behaviour. The difference is that so far we are nothing but in awe of everything our children do, and are their biggest cheerleaders. This thread is a good reminder that we need to keep being aware of ourselves and the messages being conveyed to them.

If your DH is open to change (and surely he would be, he sounds miserable?!) counselling or therapy might be useful. Good luck.

OP I’ve got nothing to add to the good advice here, except to say please don’t feel guilty if/when you can’t protect the dc from his harsh judgment.

It’s odd on here that people think he’ll be less damaging to them if you separate. They may spend less time with him, but when they do you won’t be there to see it or protect them. I’m not saying that’s a reason to stay together if you didn’t want to (though you get lots of mums who do that out of fear for their dc).

For example, my dm had no idea how abusive my dad and stepmum were to me and dsis.

What I’m saying is talk to them and explain it’s unfair, it’s his problem and not really about them etc, but you sadly can’t prevent it and don’t feel guilty, it’s impossible.

@Saggyoldsofa and @SpaceOP

Oh god yes the enabling mother! My DP's mum is SO lovely and I love her; but she always makes excuses for my DP when he has behaved unacceptably, or tell me to 'just ignore him he's being silly' - and advised that's what she would do when her own husband went off on one.

But he wasn't 'being silly', he was being horrible and upsetting me, often being insufferably rude to her, over nothing. He'd just panic and/or lose his temper over the smallest most unavoidable inconveniences. Anything unexpected or outwith his control (weather not matching the weather forecast was one of his biggest triggers for some reason, or someone getting ill so plans had to change). And she'd be basically telling me to suck it up and move on!

This totally fed into his perspective when I started to push back or put my foot down on his unacceptable behaviour - I was overreacting to him and not letting him 'express his feelings'. I apparently wasn't allowed to have feelings myself about the way he expressed those feelings. I pointed out the brazen illogic of this and you could see that he honestly thought it was my job to manage my emotions so he didn't have to manage his. Because that's what had always happened in his childhood home.

And I only realised how much I had been actually doing it already - planning ahead to avoid his triggers, stopping doing certain things that 'caused trouble' etc - when my DC came along. That's what made me realise how much I had pandered to and subjugated myself to his issues. When I had her needs to think about instead. Bloody depressing that my OWN needs were never enough to make me stand up for myself, but there it is! Kids make a difference and the second we see they're happiness being compromised or potentially compromised is when a lot of us find our inner strength I believe.