DH is not who I thought I married. Has anyone stuck it out and been ok?

[Lostinacloud]

My head is all over the place at the moment and I don’t feel I can talk to anyone in real life so I am hoping someone here has some experience and can offer some advice.

When DH and I met about 17 years ago, we lived far apart from each other the whole time but we made it work for 5 years before we got married and finally moved in together.
Before we got married I only saw him for weekends and holidays and we had brilliant fun. He was energetic, exciting, really sociable, up for going on lots of days out and a genuinely fun and loving guy.
However, over the years (we have now been married for over 10 years and have 3DC) I have realised that I only saw the “weekend and holidays” DH and not who he actually is 90% of the time. When we have friends over or go to see family, pre marriage DH returns and he is relaxed, sociable, funny and helpful but when we are alone then he is really quite boring, always tired, always stressed, very focused on his own life and he rarely wants to do anything at weekends and almost gets annoyed when I bring up holiday ideas - although does usually have fun once on holiday.
Saying that, I have occasionally started taking the DC for days out without him because I feel we have more fun. When he comes, he almost seems to look for a way to spoil the mood and starts yelling at them to mind the roads or that they were not looking where they were going. His mum is the same if we go out with her so I assume that was his example growing up. It certainly wasn’t mine though so is alien to me and I hate how it ruins the mood and the DC’s excitement visibly lowers.

He also angers easily and if we have an argument he quickly decides that I am being unreasonable and attacking him and gets very defensive or dismissive. He is never violent to me or the kids but in the earlier days more than now, he did used to get stupidly angry and occasionally damage a toy or a door. Now he tends to just go out alone to calm down so is trying to address his temper.

I know the above makes him sound awful and anyone reading will quickly decide that I would be better off without him but it’s nothing like that simple.

He adores me and he lives for our DC. I know to my core that everything he does and works so hard to achieve is actually completely for all of us and we do have a comfortable home and have experienced some great opportunities because of his job and how hard he has worked to raise through the ranks.

However, I find myself increasingly wondering if life would be more enjoyable if I had married someone a bit less ambitious and so more relaxed and fun and without such an incessant striving for improvement. As the DC get older and he has more influence on them I also start to worry that his almost obsessive determination that things can always be improved will have a negative impact on them as they never feel good enough. My oldest DC is 12 and yesterday at dinner I winced inside as he proudly told DH that he had been given a start of term assessment grade of just one under the top mark and so had started great and still had room to make the top by the end of the year and DH basically said that surely he should be top already. DH didn’t seem to notice that our DC immediately withdrew from the conversation and that it had a negative effect on his confidence. In fact I find myself constantly mopping up after DH’s confidence attacks and in doing so I almost have to paint my DC’s own father as wrong and with unrealistic expectations. How long do I let this go on for and is this actually healthy for them? To have two parents who aren’t unified?
My DH also has, to me, what seems like a completely crazy idea that nobody can ever make a mistake and that if you do then you should berate yourself for at least the rest of the day. This will apply to making a wrong turn in a new area of town, forgetting to bring something along on a trip and so I now find myself being asked by my DC “not to tell daddy” that their water bottle has gone missing or they’ve left their coat at school. Is this ok? On one hand at least they can tell me and I feel I act more reasonably and we focus more on ways to look for the items rather than focus on the fact they’ve been lost but on the other hand I am now keeping secrets from my husband so we all have an easier life and he doesn’t end up going on at them for 20 minutes about how they don’t care about their stuff and if they did then it wouldn’t be lost or forgotten. I have actually tried to talk to DH about this point but he absolutely 100% cannot see it from any other perspective and thinks he is totally right and that mistakes or things forgotten are always deliberate and mean you are not good enough. As a strong woman, anytime he has tried to imply the same to anything I have forgotten, I can just tell him to shut up but the DC can’t do that so is it ok to leave them in this environment?

Despite all the above, the DC do love DH and would be absolutely devastated if we were to split up. It would certainly not be an easy road for all of us and I know it would also devastate DH as he does live for our DC and at times is bloody excellent with them and in honestly is much better at playing with them for hours than I am.

Has anyone had similar experience where their DH is not horrific and does work hard for their family and yet they have left and found they were happier, or conversely not happier?
Or has anyone had a similar experience and decided to truck on at least until the DC are older and then see where they’re at?

I’m not saying I’m unhappy all of the time and like any marriage ours has its ups and downs and ours has been ups for the majority of the years. I am also very sociable and can build quite a busy life for myself that brings me happiness but on down days I wonder if that is healthy as I end up organising so much time to not include him?

Sorry this is long but I needed to paint the whole picture and hope someone might have had similar experiences and not necessarily decided to leave.

He sounds like he has low self-esteem and problems with managing his anger. That can be a toxic combination.

I’d be asking myself if he was aware of how he acted and if he genuinely wanted to change. Don’t be fooled by protestations of remorse and fake promises to change. Decide what you want and don’t let him wriggle out of it or trick you. You need to see real change not a fake nice front to lull you into a false sense of security.

My ex is a bully with low self-esteem and it does affect the children, even when young. They start walking on egg-shells too. That’s not good and can be very damaging longterm.

Take time to think about the exact problems and how you want to try to fix them eg counselling, anger management, etc etc. Then speak to him and be calm and clear. He may well take it as an ‘attack’ so be prepared for that.

If he can’t or won’t change, you and the DC would be better off away from him, I’d think.

Ps. I do think a main thing that needs addressing is the children being afraid to say if a water bottle is missing. That’s oppressing for the dc and needs sorting out pronto. Dad’s annoyance shouldn’t be making them want to hide things - he needs to recognise that. One of things I said is that if my DH is annoyed refer DC to me, so just an ‘ok tell mum’ to avoid a cross comment over a normal mistake.

more relaxed and fun

I think in reality it all stops being relaxed and fun when you are stressed, tired, ageing and trying to pay the bills. What was once a relaxed and fun person can quickly become submerged under the weight of responsibility op and that happens to most people. Certainly all of my friends talk about it, and it is my experience too. We are all too tired to be 'fun'!!
Are you going out together? Are you having dinner just you and him? Are you asking how he feels about the slog that is life right now?

I would be interested to know much you are investing in him, versus how much of your time and energy is being invested elsewhere. He may be absolutely lonely and miserable - and this will have an impact on everyone. If he sees that you only spend time with dc, he have come to resent them a little for that. Just a thought.

That said there is no excuse whatsoever for being hyper critical, and I would be pulling him each and every time, and if it continued then you really need to make it clear it is entirely unacceptable. Point out the damage he will do to his dc, they will come to despise him. He needs to be far more careful about what he says around them. Ask him to arrange a day out for just him and the kids every month, he needs to spend some time with them as well.

Counselling may help to provide the space to discuss your problems in a neutral place, so that he can also see clearly for himself where the issues are.

I just wanted to add to my story above that I have a very good relationship with my father now and like many men of his generation who lacked emotional intelligence as fathers, he's become an absolutely doting and loving grandfather.

It never occurred to me till now to think about what might have happened if I hadn't stared him down that day! I hope he would have eventually changed his ways anyway.

@VeniceQueen2004 Oh my god I could have written your post almost word for word. It's eerie.

Ex also used to say that he "wasn't allowed to have feelings". It was his ultimate (crap, illogical) comeback.

Incidentally, now we are separated, his family have totally cut me off, mainly because he told them about the conversations we had whist together, about his family and how it might have shaped his behaviour.

I agree with previous PPs, lots of wisdom above here. Definitely counselling! No one can be the fun, weekend side of themselves all the time. Real life, with a family, is so much richer, messier and more complicated than that. A good relationship counselor, if you both engage, will give you both much insight and perhaps, hopefully, happiness. It's possible. I'm saying this as someone who did leave a bad relationship, with DC, so I'm not someone who believes in staying no matter what.

My DH also has, to me, what seems like a completely crazy idea that nobody can ever make a mistake and that if you do then you should berate yourself for at least the rest of the day. This will apply to making a wrong turn in a new area of town, forgetting to bring something along on a trip and so I now find myself being asked by my DC “not to tell daddy” that their water bottle has gone missing or they’ve left their coat at school. Is this ok?

I grew up in a household like that - mistakes from decades before still brought up. I think it's something that can be catching as it ended up with both my parents doing it to an extent.

My sister complains about it as well but my brother appears to shrug it off more though I think it shows in how he was as a teen and young adult not really trying or caring about much which still impact him and his life options now. I do think it impacts your self-esteem – both of them have suffered from abusive behaviour in their earlier relationships.

They often do it about trips projects I'd be excited about – they do seem to think they are doing us a favour somehow – they still do it now.

My IL also sometimes do this though not to same extent and I think DH could talk to his Mum more easily and she’d mitigate FIL behaviour. Interestingly MIL family was very similar she can sometime be too much the other way – though not to me when kids were young I think she was like my parents pointing out and criticizing was thought to be helpful.

I think/hope DH and I manage to stop doing it to our kids - we tend to focus on how to avoid things happening again or being the other up on behaviour though the blame game has occurred sometimes. They do seem to feel they can approach us which is something I never felt I could - though they also have a strong bond between them which might help with that as well something there wasn't in household I grew up in.

So no I don't think it's okay I think it's damaging for confidence - but what you do other than stand up for your children and try talking to him - I'm not so sure about.

For anyone else interested in OCPD as a possible root of this type of behaviour, the symptoms are this:

What are the symptoms of OCPD?
The symptoms of OCPD include:

perfectionism to the point that it impairs the ability to finish tasks
stiff, formal, or rigid mannerisms
being extremely frugal with money
an overwhelming need to be punctual
extreme attention to detail
excessive devotion to work at the expense of family or social relationships
hoarding worn or useless items
an inability to share or delegate work because of a fear it won’t be done right
a fixation with lists
a rigid adherence to rules and regulations
an overwhelming need for order
a sense of righteousness about the way things should be done
a rigid adherence to moral and ethical codes
OCPD is diagnosed when symptoms impair your ability to function and interact with others.

When I read it my jaw dropped, it WAS my DP. Until then I was at the point of thinking he was just horrible, selfish and abusive, reading Lundy bancroft etc. Then the penny dropped - if that was the case he wouldn't be so bloody miserable too, having panic attacks, generally stressed and unhappy. COPD made so much more sense of his behaviour given the man I also knew he could be.

NOT saying anyone who feels they are being abused should make excuses; but this (internet!) diagnosis really changed the way I approached things while stiffening my resolve that things HAD to change, and it has been much much better and more effective since.

I suspect that- all else aside- you might be a bit too stuck on this ‘show a united front to the kids’ thing.

In my book, there’s nothing wrong with leading by example, and openly disagreeing. When your DH deflated DS at the table over his school marks, you did have the option of firmly breaking in and saying something in a jolly tone like ‘Actually, we were all saying earlier what a great early result that was. We need to celebrate our wins as a family, so how about a bowl of ice cream for desert? Extra sprinkles and a round of applause for DS. Just goes to show that extra effort really pays off. Can’t wait to see what happens next, he’s really on a roll. Isn’t he, DH?’

If he keeps on, you have a word afterwards. Explain your (researched) parenting philosophy and ask him to refrain from commenting if he can’t be constructive. It’s been a hard year, and HE can get on your page if he wants respect and to be included in family news.

But yes, counselling is key. Don’t take prevarication (or a straight refusal) as an answer. Find someone good yourself, make a few appointments, and hand your DH the date, location and time. Works a lot better than ‘discussing it’, in my experience.

CBT would really help your husband but he has to want to help himself otherwise he'll just be going through the motions. It might help you to read Responsibility Rebellion by Kain Ramsay.

Perhaps he feels unappreciated, excluded, or lacking in confidence in the family situation?

Whatever it is, you need to have an honest and open conversation with him. He may well be as unhappy as you are. A counselor sounds like a good idea to help you resolve the problem.

@Girlzroolz

But yes, counselling is key. Don’t take prevarication (or a straight refusal) as an answer. Find someone good yourself, make a few appointments, and hand your DH the date, location and time. Works a lot better than ‘discussing it’, in my experience.

I actually really really disagree with this. It's once again making his emotions and behaviour your job to fix/deal with. It isn't, it's HIS.

I told my DP that I had to see he was taking this seriously, I wasn't going to give another ultimatum I didn't follow through on, and he needed to sort out some sort of treatment for his anxiety and anger. I then left him to it, and checked in a couple of weeks later to see what he'd done. And he'd booked his own appointment with the GP, done the self-referral. Not because he wanted to, he bloody didn't at all, he dreaded it. But because he didn't want me to leave him. And he knew I would if HE didn't take action. Also it made it his project, and that of course meant he did it properly.

If I'd booked him in like a naughty child he'd have gone along and not engaged because it wasn't HIS plan. He had to take ownership for it to be meaningful and for it to work.

I don't think the advice was meant to encourage OP to make his personality issues her fault - but rather to approach the discussion with him with an open mind. Who knows how OPs behaviour has changed over the years? You can be open minded without accepting fault - and that attitude may make it more likely that any further discussions or counselling will be much more successful. A relationship is never one sided and it sounds like OP and her partner are adult are sensible enough to have an adult conversation about this; to approach this from the point of view of everything being her partner's fault would potentially be a bit hypocritical and unproductive if one of her issues with the situation is that he thinks he's always 100% in the right.

My last partner before DH was like this. Luckily we didn’t have any children, but that meant I bore all the brunt of his behaviour.

We had so many talks about how things needed to change but nothing ever did. It chipped chipped chipped away at my love for him until one day, I knew I didn’t love him any more and never would again, even if he changed.

A PP also made a really good point that if you tell him to fix up or ship out and he miraculously fixes up, it just goes to show that he could have done it all along but just couldn’t be arsed until he stood to lose something. So even though you’ll get the improved DH, you might not be able to forgive him for not doing it because he wanted to, only because he has to.

I'm really sorry to say but I've got parents who felt us siblings were never good enough and 3 now have severe MH problems as adults and another one has definitely become a carbon copy narc. However in your situation, there is one parent who is like this and the other one trying to do damage limitation. Even so, at the very least it must affect the DCs self esteem. Try to see if he agrees to go counselling.

Interesting list @VeniceQueen2004 - My DH does have some but not all of those traits.

Also an interesting suggestion that I am putting maybe too much emphasis on the united front idea. I just didn’t want my DC to be confused by getting two different messages sometimes. Your example of a good response to the dinner situation @Girlzroolz means they’re not necessarily getting their parent’s disagreements aired in front of them but instead being shown how two people can have differing views and attitudes and that is acceptable.

@Saggyoldsofa excellent point.

I've heard that research has shown that surprisingly little of your personality comes from how your parents raise you - compared with the genes you inherit from them and outside environmental factors (experiences from the neighbourhood, school etc.). Whilst I know some people here might disagree with that - I wouldn't be paranoid that this father's behaviour is going to "scar" the children necessarily. OP is obviously very supportive and it sounds generally like a good home environment (noted that her partner spends a lot of time playing with the kids).

I know a couple with a similar set of issues, and she was getting more and more worn out by it. They love each other very much and would never have considered breaking up, but they went for marriage counselling and it was a big success. Still a work in progress, but it REALLY helped. He was very surprised by how his behaviour came across, but truly keen to work on it, and things have really improved.

Thank you for that @katnyps

It is generally a good home environment and all of the DC at the moment are confident and generally happy. DH does play proper games with them for hours with marbles and army men or on computer games or in the garden with a ball and he can be exceptionally positive and encouraging towards the DC. He is also really good at teaching them life skills like repairing a puncture just as long as he can remain patient enough!
It’s just as they get older that I notice some of his over competitive, no mistakes and must do better attitude creeps into some situations and conversations with them and i don’t want them to feel like their best effort isn’t good enough.

H does play proper games with them for hours with marbles and army men or on computer games or in the garden with a ball and he can be exceptionally positive and encouraging towards the DC".

When he wants to be and that does not seem to be very often particularly as they get older (and start answering back or express opinions of their own).

Please stop with trying to put a gloss on this man's behaviour by highlighting his so called good points. All that you describe anyway is baseline. His behaviour towards you and your kids is unacceptable end of.

When he is home you are the one mainly taking them out for days out and outings because when and if he does deign to join in, he acts as a fun sponge dragging everyone around him down with him into his pit.

He was not at all positive towards your eldest child yesterday evening and those words of his would have stung, they were designed to hurt.

I think your DH needs to work on his shame resilience around making mistakes. Have you ever read any of brene brown’s stuff?

OP, as others have said it’s v damaging for children to be ‘punished’ for forgetting something or making a mistake. My mother was like this and would hold a resentment for a whole day. Once when we were camping and I was in charge of packing the cool box I packed soda by accident instead of tonic so she couldn’t have her usual G&Ts. Instead of laughing it off she didn’t speak to me for a whole weekend. I HATED it. If she ever forgot something she’d immediately shift blame (you were talking to me while I was packing, you were distracting me etc).

@Lostinacloud no-one can diagnose a man over a few lines on a forum - however (from knowing similar men - well intentioned but sometimes blinkered) I think CBT would be very good for your partner.

I hope you've found the different perspectives useful! I think you're right to be a concerned mum - you obviously care a lot and your kids will benefit from that. You'll do what's right for you I'm sure - you sound like you're very self aware x

Maybe there's a flip side to every type of personality.

Driven people = picky people
Ambitious people = high-standards
Self-motivated people = can't understand why everyone else sets lower standards

Maybe? My own DH is like your holiday DH and we live in a horrible house, would be skint if we only had his salary, and he needs a bomb under his arse to do anything. 🤷‍♀️

In contrast, I'm a self-improvement addict and am therefore judgier and more critical of other people for tolerating things that I'd change.

I don't know. But I read once, if your partner is more than 51% "good", it's better to stay than to leave.