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Original poster

Pretending to punch/play fighting- what's acceptable?

91 replies

tribolitesareawesome · 01/10/2020 08:11

So my stbxp (separation not related to this thread) who I am living with due to COVID play fights with our 5 year old daughter. I dont think play fighting is necessarily bad, it's just the way he does it.

He tickles her until she cries, in pain.
When she doesn't something he doesnt approve of, he pretends to punch her or holds his fist as if to punch her (but playfully)
He play bites with her, which I don't like
He gropes me in front of her which I hate and do not welcome
He belittles me in front of her and is happy to tell her I'm an idiot who lacks wisdom
Threatens to hit her instead of using ways to rectify the behaviour

I'm not against play fighting, although I don't do it with DD in case someone gets hurt and I feel it's all round an unpleasant way to behave.

Am I in the wrong to think his behaviour is over the top?

OP posts:
Alicenwonderland · 01/10/2020 10:10

The courts will take allegations of drug abuse seriously. They can arrange hair strand tests. I agree you will need evidence, you just have to be careful how you go about it because you don't want to be seen to be building a case against him. As I mentioned before WA will help you as will SS.

LomasLongstrider · 01/10/2020 10:14

There should be a way to limit your audience to "only you", I think, so it's there but not everyone can see it. Or just film him regularly, I wouldn't go down the hidden camera route if he's a conspiracy nut.

LomasLongstrider · 01/10/2020 10:16

Do you leave him unsupervised with her? I would stop if you do, if he's happy to do these things in front of you, I would worry he'd do worse in private.

GilbertMarkham · 01/10/2020 10:19

He started following a new religion and tries to force his beliefs on us

Could it be considered a cult?

You have a lot on him;

  • possible cult involvement and pushing it on you and your DD
  • financial abuse
  • drug use
  • inappropriate touching on your intimate body parts in front of your child
  • "rough housing" your child until she is distressed, including holding his fist up to her, pretend punching her etc.

Just record everything as well as you can.

Has he continued groping you after you said you wanted to separate/have separated? That's sexual assault, is it not.

GilbertMarkham · 01/10/2020 10:22

(and if it can be considered that's he's been arrested and us being prosecuted for fraud, that reflects very badly on him too).

LomasLongstrider · 01/10/2020 10:29

That is sexual assault. What do you do when he gropes you op? Do you tell him off? Could punching him in the face be considered self defence..?

He's sounds like an utter scum bag op, sorry you have to deal with his shit Flowers. Do try to get evidence of his drug use/report him and ask that he be tested, as that at least can't be construed as anything other than what it blatantly is.

Can you kick him out, and use covid as an excuse to limit contact to phone calls or video calls?

GilbertMarkham · 01/10/2020 10:31

Can you kick him out, and use covid as an excuse to limit contact to phone calls or video calls?

Op might be better continuing for a while to get evidence of drug use, "religion" involvement etc.

Wouldn't be leaving him alone with DD though.

LomasLongstrider · 01/10/2020 10:33

Womens aid offer a programme for children called helping hands, your dd might benefit from it? And what your dd would disclose about him to ss/wa would surely be quite damning in itself. If she reports all this to a teacher first, they might take the view you aren't protecting her/safeguarding appropriately, and that would reflect badly on you (knowing but having done nothing).

LomasLongstrider · 01/10/2020 10:36

"Op might be better continuing for a while to get evidence of drug use, "religion" involvement etc."

I did think that, but a drug test would be enough to raise eyebrows at least, and if he's not present irl, he might resort to putting things in writing?

Ophelia2020 · 01/10/2020 10:46

The guy is an unemployed pothead. He does not have money for court.

Just kick him out.

Mumoftwo1994 · 01/10/2020 10:48

@tribolitesareawesome

So my stbxp (separation not related to this thread) who I am living with due to COVID play fights with our 5 year old daughter. I dont think play fighting is necessarily bad, it's just the way he does it.

He tickles her until she cries, in pain.
When she doesn't something he doesnt approve of, he pretends to punch her or holds his fist as if to punch her (but playfully)
He play bites with her, which I don't like
He gropes me in front of her which I hate and do not welcome
He belittles me in front of her and is happy to tell her I'm an idiot who lacks wisdom
Threatens to hit her instead of using ways to rectify the behaviour

I'm not against play fighting, although I don't do it with DD in case someone gets hurt and I feel it's all round an unpleasant way to behave.

Am I in the wrong to think his behaviour is over the top?

This doesn't sound like play fighting at all, it's intimidating at best and abusive at worst.
category12 · 01/10/2020 11:17

@Ophelia2020

The guy is an unemployed pothead. He does not have money for court.

Just kick him out.

There is that.
ukgift2016 · 01/10/2020 11:42

When is he leaving?

If I was you I would withhold access, he would not bother to take you to court. Also yes social services would step in if they knew what was going on in your home.

GilbertMarkham · 01/10/2020 11:45

I suppose of he's unemployment at the moment, he won't pay child maintenance do it's so skin off his nose and he won't be pushing for access overnights to reduce/cancel out child maintenance.

But op says he'll still very likely want access.

I suppose op needs some basis in which to deny him (unsupervised) access. I mean she could just say "you're not getting access alone" but if he challenges that - physically even (not legally) they could get into scuffles. A woman is not going to win against a man trying to lift a child and walk out of her (new) home etc. Or push into her home or anything like that ... He presumably has parental rights that would come up if she phoned the police and he said she was denying him access to his child (?)

GilbertMarkham · 01/10/2020 11:48

Agree that if op can get no access/supervised only access, that he'll not have the money or perhaps motivation to pursue it.

GilbertMarkham · 01/10/2020 11:51

What I'm trying to say in a long winded way is that it could be quite hard to deny all access on your own - unless you keep your new home location secret.

And what if he turns up at school/daycare? Is he already on their records as a parent who can collect their dd?
If he has parental responsibility and there's nothing legal in place to stop him from taking dd from there, could he do it?

GilbertMarkham · 01/10/2020 11:52

Likewise ops entire family/any mutual friends would have to be onboard in not communicating she and dd's new home location.

PicsInRed · 01/10/2020 11:57

@GilbertMarkham

I dont understand why you would wrote something like this.

I think she's just considering the fact that he gropes you in front of your DD (sexually inappropriate/degenerate) and that child sex abusers often move from tickling abs play fighting into sexual assaults, it's a common approach for them to take.

I agree he does come across as a possible groomer - grooming both parent and child to consider escalating behaviours (physical or sexual) to be the default, accepted by others, expected daily, and therefore "normal".

Either way, his behaviour is coercive and abusive.

Original poster
tribolitesareawesome · 01/10/2020 13:33

Thanks for all your messages.

I'm not on the tenancy but he did say he wants to add me so that's why I'm still there. I don't know if/when but if I'm on I can kick him out, but right now I'd end up homeless with DD.

I do want to get in touch with WA and SS but I'm actually feeling terrified. No idea why.

I'd actually prefer it if he was out of her life for good. It's not a cult he's joined, it's another religion- his own corrupted, twisted version of it.

I have actually been tempted to punch him for touching me against my will, but I know he will get the police involved.

I'm going to contact WA first perhaps. I tried to use their chat feature the other day because he pushed me really hard in front of DD, for disobeying him, but tried to laugh it off as a joke- "Isnt it funny that mummy fell"- is what he said to DD when it happened.

I have been trying to find somewhere else to live. I applied for housing in the borough where my university is to get on the housing register. They told me that I'm in a low band. One of the questions was about fleeing abuse, but I'm really not even sure if I'm being abused. I'm also on the one for the borough I live in now and no success. I'm always 80/1000 applicants. My university were unable to help me either when I contacted them a few months ago.

OP posts:
Original poster
tribolitesareawesome · 01/10/2020 13:35

Sorry, with the chat feature on the WA or maybe it was refuge site. I was waiting ages to get through to someone so have up on that.

OP posts:
Dery · 01/10/2020 14:08

"One of the questions was about fleeing abuse, but I'm really not even sure if I'm being abused."

It's hard to see it when you're living with it yourself but we can all tell you: yes, you and your DD are both being abused and you need to escape so yes, you would qualify as fleeing abuse. Next time that question is asked - please answer yes, because it's true. Abuse doesn't have to involve physical violence - though it sounds like there is physical violence anyway because he pushed you over. Even without that, you are experiencing emotional and psychological violence which is also abuse; my understanding is that women who experience both often find the psychological and emotional violence worse because it is more or less constant and it is soul-destroying.

FizzyGreenWater · 01/10/2020 14:23

This is really serious.

Please leave.

Wait until he is out, get your stuff and take your DD to a refuge.

You NEED to get in touch with everyone you can in authority and report his abuse of your child.

The onyl saving grace here is that he is a lazy stoner on top of being a violent nasty shit - so hopefully once you're gone, he won't fight for access.

GilbertMarkham · 01/10/2020 14:31

I have actually been tempted to punch him for touching me against my will, but I know he will get the police involved.

I'm going to contact WA first perhaps. I tried to use their chat feature the other day because he pushed me really hard in front of DD, for disobeying him, but tried to laugh it off as a joke- "Isnt it funny that mummy fell"- is what he said to DD when it happened.

So your relationship is over and you're only staying due to covid and lack of alternative accommodation but he's groping you .... And he's also pushed you/assaulted you.

From your posts it's obvious you are scared, and you think you'll "lose" if you complain about any of his behaviour to eg the police or other agencies. You really need help and women's aid is probably the best place to start.

Even with his new religious beliefs that he's trying to push on you and your child not being a cult as such; you still have a lot on him.

Please show women's aid this thread - there is an online chat service and perhaps you could copy and paste it in.

With their help you could get up the register for new housing as he is an abuser. He had pushed you, he is essentially sexually assaulting you,this behaviour towards your child (especially the rough housing til she's crying, pretending to.hit her with his fist etc) his drug use etc.

You have a lot.

Please get some advice and help.

GilbertMarkham · 01/10/2020 14:33

Oh and try not to punch/hit him.

You can say it was self defence etc but it's best not to give him anything at all.

Unless there is other stuff, at this point he had pushed you hard and you haven't done anything.

What about your uni - are there any services for abusive relationships etc there?

category12 · 01/10/2020 14:35

I'd say you'd probably be better off leaving and presenting as homeless to the council due to fleeing abuse, or going to refuge, or moving home to family than you are sticking it out hoping to be put on the tenancy and then hoping to get him out. You'd be getting liability and obligation and no guarantee you'd get him out anytime soon or ever.

Could family or friends help with a deposit for somewhere?