Pretending to punch/play fighting- what's acceptable?

[tribolitesareawesome]

So my stbxp (separation not related to this thread) who I am living with due to COVID play fights with our 5 year old daughter. I dont think play fighting is necessarily bad, it's just the way he does it.

He tickles her until she cries, in pain.
When she doesn't something he doesnt approve of, he pretends to punch her or holds his fist as if to punch her (but playfully)
He play bites with her, which I don't like
He gropes me in front of her which I hate and do not welcome
He belittles me in front of her and is happy to tell her I'm an idiot who lacks wisdom
Threatens to hit her instead of using ways to rectify the behaviour

I'm not against play fighting, although I don't do it with DD in case someone gets hurt and I feel it's all round an unpleasant way to behave.

Am I in the wrong to think his behaviour is over the top?

Tickling someone until they cry is literal torture. As in, the brain can interpret it as torture as it activates that same part of the brain. It's been historically used as a torture method.

I once viciously (broke the skin) bit a guy on a date for tickling me though I was begging him to stop. There wasn't a second date.

She'll be in real pain, and he either needs to stop (plus all his either weird dominance behaviour).

This is abuse, and isn't sending her the right message about bodily autonomy (asking him to stop doing something to her body that's causing her discomfort/pain, but he laughs and continues??).

*he either needs to stop.

*other weird not either weird

He play bites with her, which I don't like

Missed this.

It's all making you uncomfortable for a reason.

Most people would be.

At the very best I'd be concerned about what your DD is learning about bodily autonomy, respect, intimacy etc for her future relationships (and for abusers in the meantime).

"He gropes me in front of her which I hate and do not welcome"

^And that is knowingly and purposefully exposing her to sexual acts, and could in itself be considered sexual abuse.

Apart from the torture he's inflicting on her, he's teaching her that men can touch a woman's private parts without her consent.

Is it really that serious? I would think it best to talk to him first to get him to realise his behaviour is wrong

Does he hurt people in his work until they cry and touch them sexually without their consent, even after they ask him to stop ?

Does he do it in front of authority figures, Like your daughters teacher or his boss ?

If he doesn't do this, he already knows it’s wrong.

He does it because he feels entitled to, because it makes him feel powerful to hurt people who are smaller and weaker. He believes you are his property to use and abuse as he pleases.

Nothing you can say can make him stop. To stop he Would need an entire reset of his personality and value system. He’d need years of therapy and hard work which he wants to do himself.

With this behaviour, he's teaching her that:

• she doesn't have bodily autonomy,
• that her nos and distress will be ignored and are irrelevant,
• that a man can do this and still expect to be treated like it's OK, even loving.

It's a terrible lesson to teach a child, especially a girl. He's setting her up to have crappy boundaries in the future (and it's a horrific potential he could be a risk to her himself).

Plus acting sexually towards you in front of her is crossing more boundaries. He's also showing her that being an adult woman doesn't give you bodily autonomy either. The man does what he likes and is still accepted.

What are you ending the relationship over (since you said this is not why)?

He started following a new religion and tries to force his beliefs on us, goes on about conspiracy theories, smokes a lot of skunk, lost his job and is going to court for fraud- which I didnt know about until he told me of his arrest.

He is also lazy and has made it hard for me to go out to work. I've put in a single benefits claim now but I was struggling to pay for things because he kept all money to himself

If he’s doing something to her, like tickling until it hurts, and she’s asking him to stop and he doesn’t stop, then that is a big problem.

She’s saying ‘no’ to him and he’s doing it anyway.

She’s learning that when she says ‘no’ she is ignored. If that happens often enough then eventually you just give up and let stuff happen to you. That could be very bad for her self esteem and for her relationships when she’s older. And dangerous too.

Him groping you in front of her is sexually abusive to you and to her. Doing stuff like that in front of a child when you know they can see it - even if they’re ‘not old enough to understand’ - is abusive.

I think that this has been your normal for so long, you can’t appreciate how bad it is. But he is abusive and potentially dangerous and he needs to go, or you and she need to go. But preferably him.

This is one of those situations where I would say that your and your DD’s safety is more important than sticking to the Covid rules. Get him gone ASAP.

www.tulsakids.com/teaching-body-autonomy-tickling-and-touching/

protect your DD, your ex is abusing your DD in plain sight

Agree with S00LA's post.

And I'm also wondering if he's been doing this to you since you broke up, in which case he's ignoring the fact that you've broken up and still groping you (?)

OP it's good that you are teaching your daughter that parts of her body are private. How about also teaching her that being intimidated, made to cry for someone else's amusement, being touched repeatedly when you have said no, being made to watch another person being assaulted is also wrong as is accepting that a stronger, older person in authority doing things that upset you Is normal behaviour. If you do nothing and say nothing to her she is internalising some very dangerous lessons about relationships and what is appropriate.

If you won't do anything then tell her to tell her teachers at school , they will have no problems with treating this as the child abuse that it is and calling your STBX on his behaviour.

He started following a new religion and tries to force his beliefs on us, goes on about conspiracy theories, smokes a lot of skunk, lost his job and is going to court for fraud- which I didnt know about until he told me of his arrest.

Wow.

Can't say I'm surprised to be honest,I was expecting a background of shit behaviour (though not quite that level and variety).

This is actually "good" because there's a lot in there you could try to get only supervised access (or even no contact) due to - especially the drug use.

You need to note everything he's done/doing - especially the drug use .. and get advice from women's aid etc.

Yeah, my Dad was like this when I was growing up with the fake punches and excessive tickling, also squeezing DM's backside. He's a torment (also did things like sticking ice poles down our backs, flicking us with towels, licking his finger and wiping it on our noses, getting us things we'd asked for and then pretending he hadn't/wasn't going to give it to us etc.) The tickling thing a lot of parents of my friends also did (and I'm only in my twenties, so not that old). The biting is very weird. And he shouldn't be belittling you in front of her.

You could try social services or woman's aid but I'd start by talking to him and pointing out that by not stopping tickling when she says to do so he's teaching her that others have a right to do things to her body without her consent. We talk to kids about 'good touch' and 'bad touch'. A good touch is something that we like and makes us feel good, like a hug. A bad touch is anything that we don't like and no one has the right to make you submit to that. If you Google it you can find lots of teaching materials on it. Maybe go over it with STBXH and point out that the tickling is problematic if it falls into the 'bad touch' category.

Woah, cross post! If there's drugs, conspiracy theories and financial abuse you definitely need to seek advice.

He sounds generally degenerate and a bit unhinged.

This behaviour is just another facet of that.

What could SS/WA actually do? I have no evidence so he could easily lie and say I'm crazy

Tbh I don't see the point of trying to talk to a dope head, conspiracy theorist, lazy, financially abusive, criminal about inappropriate, bullying behaviour.

Women's aid could help with the financial abuse side of things. If he's advocating or sharing any theories that suggestradicalisation or extremist ideology, SS can refer to Prevent.

Noting every incident of groping, drug use etc is a start.

Can you get photos of drugs etc.?

As for he could say you're lying ... And you can say the same. You may not be able to prove it but he can't prove otherwise (!)

You haven't been arrested for fraud, he has; who looks more likely to be a liar?

Maybe someone with more experience could chime in here.

WA could give you advice on how to get evident/build a case.

If he doesn't know you're pursuing this, he may use drugs and give you the opportunity for proof in the meantime.

Can't dope be seen in hair samples?

I'm not sure what the protocol is for access with drug using parents, maybe another poster know more.

It's about having a paper trail and some professional advice in your armoury.

WA and SS will actually do quite a lot. They will be incredibly concerned by what you've said. WA can help get you to a safe place with your daughter, he is abusing you both. One of the ladies I met on my WA recovery course had absolutely no idea that her husband was sexually abusing her daughter, she stood by him when he was arrested for abusing a teenage girl. She found out about her daughter when she disclosed the abuse at school (she was about 6). Please call WA, they will help you with everything.

Film him on Facebook live? Whip your phone out and record. There's your evidence. If he goes ballistic and tries to wrestle the phone of you, that's assault, and assault that's been recorded and broadcast live?

Show WA this thread, that's a good basis without even having to detail everything from scratch for them.