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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What is this behaviour? Me in the wrong again??

81 replies

Clementinewine · 28/09/2020 09:15

Morning everyone just wondered what you thought about the latest argument...

Me trying to raise something pretty small in the grand scheme that bothers me, as calmly and nicely as I can, him getting increasingly angry about it before storming off, locking himself in bathroom slamming door and swearing loudly.
Me leaving then texting later not trying to have a go but explaining that I really want to be able to talk to him, communicate, resolve things without him getting angry. I said I can't take responsibility for his anger or reaction to things. I said I loved him at the end. Admittedly it was probably an overwhelmingly long message and I know I am bad for that and it can sometimes be too much.
Then him replying angrily about how he has a right to be angry, saying I was being angry when I tried to have this discussion and oh but he isn't allowed to be. I don't believe I was being angry at all. I tried to bring something up that bothered me as carefully as I could because I know how he reacts sometimes. He storms off swearing. Now saying I was being angry and the argument became about...having a right to be angry and who was angry?! Rather than what I initially bought up.
He also said I am always mentioning what bothers me or what he shouldn't do. Well maybe I do it a bit but he also forgets the positive stuff, when I thank him for things, etc. Also I feel if I don't tell him things that bother me that it isn't healthy, and I might get resentful. I'm desperate to have an adult relationship where things can be communicated and resolved. I know I too can sometimes react badly to things being bought up but I have recognised that and I am trying to work on it, but he rarely does bring things up anyway.

Ultimately ended up in full blown argument first there and then in the messages, and me spending the evening alone really upset and him ignoring when I tried to phone. Often after arguments I am left very upset and he doesn't bother to check in on me at all. And me apologising for everything and apologising again this morning and he is just ignoring basically.

I did call him a name at the end of the arguing via text, I know it is bad and I have apologised. But it is a name he always refers to himself as and it is not a hugely awful one. I was so upset and overwhelmed and I find it difficult to calm down when I am really upset (teary etc) especially as I am always just left alone to deal with it by myself after an argument. I got no sleep at all and ended up getting s bit drunk alone as well which I shan't be doing again (I rarely drink anyway) as I just felt so upset and frankly out of my mind a bit.

What is this behaviour? Am I in the wrong yet again?

OP posts:
Zaphodsotherhead · 28/09/2020 17:38

He wasn't like this at the start because you would never have given him the time of day if he had been. But he could see you were vulnerable back then, and he's taken advantage of every single second of your poor MH and vulnerability.

He thinks, if he just leaves you to stew, you will be so desperate for him that when he knocks on your door to 'forgive' you, he will be welcomed back.

Hold your head high, go out and about and get fresh air and move on by yourself.

Clementinewine · 28/09/2020 19:11

Thank you. I am sorry to hear that @beachydreams. I did have my doubts from the start, I was not in a good place anyway as well as you say @zaphodsotherthead, also some red flags, and I did try to pull away a few times and I know he probably has a lot of resentment for that.

I am not perfect, not perfect at all. I can be unstable. But he takes me to the edge. He claims to want to look after me but then when we argue it is just like he lights a fire and walks away leaving it to burn. Once he laughed at me during an argument when I was crying. Once he went "oh hear we go again" and I said afterwards that wasn't exactly going to calm me down was it. He goads me. I am not perfect but goddamnit it neither is he and at least I can face up to my issues and ultimately I always feel so fucking guilty and bad for everything, everything.

I am so upset but I am going to really really try this time. I had a nice walk with my mum. On Thursday evening I am going to hang out with a neighbour so I can get to know more people round here. I know he won't like that if he sees it (it is a male neighbour) but screw him, I deserve friends and a life and it's not my fault he has nobody and spends all his time in front of the TV.

Thanks all. I will try my best to do myself a favour for once and also I might try to find some self help books about how not to feel guilty for everything, how to stop worrying, etc etc!!

OP posts:
Clementinewine · 28/09/2020 19:17

Also there are elements of him that reminded me of my dad, not necessarily directly, just how our whole relationship dynamic was. My dad was a bully, emotionally abusive, turned into a stalker. Mum said to me today she never felt like he really loved her.

I got to the point in this relationship where I just feel so insecure I became annoying frankly, always asking if he loved me, if he was ok. Because I just felt deep down I couldn't trust it, because I knew after the next argument when I would be left alone upset he wouldn't be there for me. Yes some of the things he did like cooking did show love, maybe that was his way. But I became extremely insecure (probably due to past experiences too so not just him)

It's like I have just avoided repeating a pattern, ending up in a relationship exactly like my mum and dad. Mum finally got free and is so happy now.

Totally just avoided repeating a family pattern I suppose.

OP posts:
Zaphodsotherhead · 28/09/2020 19:20

Just be careful that this other male neighbour isn't looking to home in on a vulnerable woman for his own reasons. Guard your heart and just be aware.

Clementinewine · 28/09/2020 19:57

Oh thanks @Zaphodsotherhead, I have made it very clear to him already that I am not interested and want to be on my own for some time. Also luckily I just don't fancy him anyway. I just need some more friends. But I have learnt a lot about myself from this and moving forwards I will try hard to set up some boundaries.

OP posts:
Livelifejoyful · 28/09/2020 20:01

It seems your doing all the work. Before you throw in the towel, trying letting him come to you after an argument (do not contact him) and let him be the one to resolve the issue.

lizbetlizbet · 28/09/2020 20:39

I think the relationship sounds really hard. Aside from the rights and wrongs between you, bear in mind that it is difficult being with someone who is unstable. Can you go to your GP and get more help and support? In relation to this relationship yes of course you should be able to discuss things but if you need to discuss so many things so often then there is evidence here that you are totally incompatible with one another love is not enough here and will turn toxic. For a relationship you do need some compatibility. You keep being told that this is not good, you keep agreeing it is not good, and then you keep trying to continue it. I think it is maybe time to genuinely call it a day. You don't need to move.

hauntedtree · 28/09/2020 21:36

OP you should look up attachment theory, i was in a similar relationship and it really helped me understand why i was always anxious and needing his attention and approval, while he claimed to love me but could just ignore me for days after an argument. I think you should break up with this guy but being aware of attachment styles can help you avoid this same dynamic in future relationships.

Mlb123 · 29/09/2020 01:19

There are good things. He does look after me and provide things...but it feels like it is when he wants to. It is when he wants to and it will be so he can point it out when you are trying to get him to listen and is also usually when you have backed down as though he is being the bigger petsonHe is never ever there after we argue and how knows how upset I am. Yep this is because he knows it gets to you and is to punish you and drive you mafI was actually feeling quite scared last night (drunk and too upset) and phoned him twice and he didn't pick up. Of course he didn't and it was in hope you realise not to argue with himIt is not me trying to be manipulative, all I wanted was a hug and help calming myself down. I never get it after we argue and sometimes not for days till I come crawling back. If you want to see if he is playing with you then perhaps pretend something bothers you that doesn't and with my ex it was usually incorporated into the next argumentI know it is ridiculous.It's not you love it's him and he will only get better if you start ignoring the things he knows hurt you and I know you shouldn't have to but if you want the truth then it's perhaps inevitable. Perhaps say that you've come to realise that it helps you when he gives you space after an argument and say now you dread the idea of being crowded and see if next time he won't let you be alone

Clementinewine · 29/09/2020 08:58

Thank you everybody.

Well. There was a discussion last night. I need to get this down here as I need to make sense of it all. This message may be rambling and confused because frankly although last night I ended up in bed in agreement with him, that I am very unstable and very difficult to deal with, this morning, I have just woken up confused, thinking what the hell just happened, how the hell has it once again got to another resolution that is basically just, you're crazy, I can't deal with you, you need help. As that is the way it always ends now after arguments.

The discussion got argumentative at times, I got very emotional again at times.

It did transpire that on the day of the original argument, when I went home and got drunk very quickly (as I am underweight and don't often drink) I did send a few text messages I had absolutely 100% forgotten about as I deleted everything later that night, which I can see were not fair. After I said bye a few times and he took that to mean I was breaking up with him (I was not) I sent these messages. Just crazy things like "ok then good luck finding someone else". Probably hurtful and yes I was being drunk, crazy, emotional. I hold my hands up to that, can see why he took that to be it and therefore ignored my phone calls later, can see why he was still upset the next morning.

So that is one thing. I cannot remember all of the discussion last night. It was basically him starting with he can't deal with me anymore, I am too sick, etc. OK fine. But I said why have I got so much worse since I have been with you, why was my previous 6 year relationship ok without all these issues. He said, well your ex clearly just put up with it all and kept his mouth shut, he did ultimately leave in the end yes. OK maybe that could be right but still it was never ever this bad, I was never ever this bad in that relationship.

Various other things were discussed/argued about with lots of crying from me. One thing was him saying I was not getting any help for myself. I put my foot down on that and there have been a few times in the past where I have managed to do this successfully without him twisting it back on me, where I have just been straight out loud and calm calling his bullshit. I said that was not true and not fair, I had started therapy, got a 2 hour diagnosis appointment (waiting on outcome) been prescribed antidepressants. Before he accepted this though he did try to push it further by saying well have you started taking them yet, I didn't no that. I called bullshit. I said you knew it because I texted you it and I haven't had chance to take them yet as I am waiting on the prescription to be filled! So I feel that part of the discussion was unfair, just him reaching to place all the responsibility on me and my illness.

Another part was me saying I just don't understand why you got so angry about me trying to give feedback about some of the language you use. I said during the argument you said "oh here is another word I am not allowed to use" and I asked him to expand on that as the only other thing I can remember ever asking him not to say was calling me a bitch in a "jokey" way. He brought up one other example. At the time I was like ok, yes maybe I am too critical sometimes. This morning however I am like, this is a grown man who I have been critical of/given feedback on regarding his language use a total of three times over two years and that is enough for him to blow his top?

I can admit my MH has fallen apart, I get incredibly upset and emotional during and after our arguments, and anyone that witnessed it would say yes she is a crazy person. However. I am just trying to make sense. I think this relationship and these arguments are crazy-making and certainly do not help me but make me worse.

There was a lot of other stuff, all the same really, just ultimately coming down to me being too upset and emotional and unstable and him having had enough. This was far removed from the original argument the other day in the first place. Like our other arguments recently, it all just ended up on me and me being too unstable and upset.

Again though I did try to reach to his reaction the other day, his anger, storming off slamming the door swearing. At this point he said it was to get away from me, because he is scared of me. Now let us remember I was not actually angry at that time. I was probably increasingly annoyed and frustrated but I was not shouting and screaming at him. I am a underweight 5ft7 woman who myself has experienced a life time of violence at the hands of men. I have not been violent with this man. I have got very very upset and emotional but I have not been violent. He is double my size. I know that sometimes my extreme upset and tears can scare him but at that particular time, when I was trying to tell him that saying "dont do this" "dont do that" all the time didn't help me, I was not crying or shrieking or shouting. Perhaps I was going on a bit, I know I do that, hold my hands up, I find it hard to let things go. But was that really enough to scare a 6ft heavy built man? Was that really the reason he stormed off and locked himself in the bathroom or is it because he simply cannot take criticism healthily and I am just supposed to put up and shut up. Anyway apparently it was the reason, like I say, he said it was because he was scared of me.

So that was that, as I was still upset and emotional through most of this discussion he ultimately preceded to pull a recorder out to start recording me because he is scared of me. I was in absolute shock at this. I can try to put myself in his shoes as much as possible, understand I am unstable yes I know I am. But to do that and claim he is that scared...I just don't know if I trust he had a fair point with that or if it was just a tactic to shut me up, bully me. I said I couldn't believe he was doing that, etc. He again said it is because he is scared of me. I reminded him that his temper scared me, that it had scared me from the start, that once when he flipped in a supermarket I ran home and stayed away from him for a week because I was so upset and confused (he did apologise).

I know I am damaged and I bought a lot of baggage into this relationship which does mean I am now instinctively in fear if ever a man gets angry, whether or not they are or could be violent. I know it caused me to have a lot of doubts and second guessing from the start, which probably did not help this relationship and I have a tendency to convince myself in my head that things are true when maybe they are not, and I can scare myself. It was not fair for me to be so judgemental and on edge from the start.

Oh yeah and the other thing was that again as I got increasingly upset, he just started laughing, swearing like "oh for fuck sake" but as if he was finding it all funny, it was all too much. Perhaps he doesn't know how to handle a very upset and also probably sick girlfriend but, does that help? Is that nice and loving? I was pleading saying please stop it, please stop being like that.

Yet here we are in this position again. Where the original issue has been forgotten. The fact that he is unable to take criticism very well at all has been forgotten. Perhaps I am too critical, I hold my hands up. All he needs to do is tell me that and I can work on it. I did not realise. Him blowing up, doesn't help. The fact that he has a temper too and scares me too is irrelevant apparently. I am the sick and unstable one. Yes indeed I have not been sick like I have the past two years for a very very long time. Why is that? Is it crazy-making? I am the scary one.

So. I am going to take some time to try to process everything. I will also try to put myself in his shoes because to be fair I know some behaviours on my side have not been great either and I need to learn from it. I am going to try to write down as much as possible this evening.

I know I am ill and it is not easy being with somebody ill. But I also continue to feel as much as I try to put myself in his shoes too, that something is not right here and will never be right. I do not feel safe in this relationship and in fact because of the drunken meltdown I had alone the other night I can see how dangerous it is for me and my MH.

Sorry for this rambling long message. It is also very outing so I hope he never comes across it. I know that it just needs to end and there is no point analysing but I really just need to try to figure it out especially these most recent events, both putting myself in his shoes and learning how to improve my behaviours and my emotion management, but also just trying to figure out well was it all really just me, was it all really. Thank you everybody. What a drama.

I am going to be playing catch up with work today but I will try to respond when I can.

OP posts:
Clementinewine · 29/09/2020 09:32

Very helpful advice thank you @MIb123. Most of it does make sense, though I can now see on this one occasion at least why he ignored my calls, because I had sent a couple of hurtful messages when I was drunk. I cannot remember sending them and did not even remember at the time, I was so out of it. But that may be a more fair explanation to him as to why he ignored me, at that one time. But not the other times when the arguments have just ended, I have been left alone and extremely upset, and gone crawling back to him.

I do not drink much usually and yes this is also my lesson to never drink alone again. Especially not after or during an emotional upset/argument.

OP posts:
Anniegetyourgun · 29/09/2020 09:46

Hmm... you can't remember them and you deleted them? Are you quite sure you even sent them?

I can tell you one thing about your (hopefully ex) partner. He is a huge liar. He is not in any way, shape or form afraid of you and he not only can perfectly well "deal with you" (else why did he come back?), he welcomes it. Your being younger and having MH issues he can manipulate are absolutely the attraction. He's spent 2 years working out exactly how to get under your skin and then proceeds to do it as often as possible.

You were sure he wouldn't come back any time soon after the last blow-up, based on previous form. I reckon I know why he broke that pattern: because he felt you were breaking away. If he stepped back and left you to think it over you might come to what he considers the wrong conclusion (i.e. the right one!). So he needs to ramp up the control to get you back into your box.

Once seen, though, it can't be unseen. You know what's going on now. Your early conditioning has made you susceptible to it, so it isn't going to be that easy to just "leave the bastard", but you can do it and you're going to. Everyone here who's ever been with a partner like this (and believe me, there's a lot of it about, he's really not unique) will be cheering you on.

Elieza · 29/09/2020 09:53

You’ll be ok OP. This difficult time will pass.

However you are right when you are thinking that it’s not just you. He’s to blame for a lot of it if not all. If he was more balanced himself he would be more calm when you have disagreements. It is possible to have different opinions without blowing up and someone locking themselves away (which could have been fear or could have been a manipulative and controlling behaviour to make you feel alone and freak you out on purpose. Which is cruel and wrong).

You need someone sweet and kind who can understand that you are fragile but want to get better and see the strong woman you are inside.

The fact that you are questioning his crap shows you are strong. Whether or not you are strong enough to get away from him as yet is up to you. However the longer you stay with a man like that the harder it is to leave.

Watch this upset doesn’t turn you into old patterns of eating (or should I say not eating) as your body needs nutrition to be strong. Proper healthy food. Not junk or limited food.

Don’t be hanging around with that other guy alone. Ask him to introduce you to other women in the block. I think that you would be trying to make your current boyfriend jealous if you hung with this other guy. I don’t know if that’s deliberate or subconscious but it’s not a good idea. It’s female friends you need. Not male who may use you. I’m sure you’ve had enough of that treatment over the years.

Good luck OP. Next time anyone messes with you arguing about things in a nasty way rather than discussing them, as you say, try and keep control. You can ask them to leave if it’s escalating. You can revisit the discussion when you are both calmer.

Clementinewine · 29/09/2020 10:00

Thanks both. Honestly, I can vaguely remember the messages I sent now. I know he is not lying about that and I hold my hands up on that one. However I am scared about how I spiralled so quickly and what happened with me that evening so yes I do still think there are other things at play here too. I agree @Elieza that the way he handles it as well is not right or loving. And it simply just isn't fair to place all the responsibility on me, it has turned me into a crazy, anxious and very insecure person and I feel totally insecure in the relationship now even when things are going well!

This morning he sent a good morning text and saying things will be alright. I didn't respond straightaway, I was groggy and confused. A little later he sent a message he does love me, please believe him.

I have responded that I need some time to process some things and that I am very disturbed by what happened to my MH the other evening so need to take it very seriously. He has said that is fine, he is here if I need him...

OP posts:
Clementinewine · 29/09/2020 10:06

I cannot get over the way that once again when I got really upset rather than trying to be loving and calm me down, he was laughing and swearing (not angrily but as if it was all too hilarious).

I cannot get over the fact he pulled a recorder out on me and said his initial storming off to the bathroom was because he was scared of me.

I can put myself in his shoes as much as possible but equally I cannot excuse his own behaviours, I cannot get over all this stuff, and I cannot let myself be in that kind of drunken upset state alone again.

OP posts:
lizbetlizbet · 29/09/2020 10:09

He isn't good for you, OP, but at the same time, if you behaved like that with me I would finish with you. I don't think how you are behaving is ok either.

I think you need to go to your GP and get more help and support.

You keep being told that this relationship is not good, you keep agreeing it is not good, and then you keep trying to continue the relationship.

Aside from your own problems, yes of course you should be able to discuss things but if you need to discuss so many things so often then there is evidence here that you are totally incompatible with this person. Love is not enough here and has turned toxic judging by your latest post. For a relationship you do need some compatibility.

I think it is time to genuinely call it a day and to get some help for yourself. You don't need to move.

Clementinewine · 29/09/2020 10:14

I know @lizbetlizbet, I know. Thank you for the advice.

OP posts:
lizbetlizbet · 29/09/2020 10:24

You have said that before many times OP. He has said he has had enough. You will be going round in circles if you continue this. Neither of you getting violent, that is good, but what a waste of time. Let it go.

I said go to GP but I re-read and see that you have been prescribed antidepressants - start taking them, hopefully you will feel better, if not go back to GP. I hope that the 2 hour diagnosis is helpful and things move forward there too.

But in relation to this relationship let it go and focus on yourself for a while. Spend time on your own doing calming things, doing the ironing, going for walks and when you feel calmer read through your posts on here and see it objectively.

hauntedtree · 29/09/2020 10:53

Him laughing at you as you get more and more upset is really disturbing, as is pulling his phone out to record you. I get the feeling he enjoys goading you into getting upset and then pushing you further and further.

There is no point trying to "put yourself in his shoes" as he clearly won't do the same. Your arguments will never get resolved as he won't engage with you in a mature way or take any responsibility for the ways he is hurting you.

MargotsBumpyNight · 29/09/2020 11:13

Lots of red flags here OP. Deflecting, making out you are the aggressor, rewriting, ignoring, blaming your mental health.. All classic abusive behaviour. This man doesn't love or respect you. Get strong and get out Flowers

Zaphodsotherhead · 29/09/2020 11:18

I think your MH will improve a lot if you stop dating, stop putting your happiness in the hands of men and start your anti-depressants. You need to save yourself, not look to men for help or to rely on when your NH is spiralling. You need to know your own signals as to when things are getting bad and how and when to get help.

You need to do all this for yourself. I really don't think you are in any position yet to be dating. Get yourself on an even keel so you are more able to deal decisively with bad behaviour from a partner. Spend some time alone, getting strong, getting well.

And I wish you all the luck in the world.

countbackfromten · 29/09/2020 11:29

@Zaphodsotherhead is right. @Clementinewine you need to stop dating, delete him from your life and focus on you and your recovery. Your messages are so clear that this is toxic for you and you need to take control and as others have said, do this for yourself. Being on your own and caring for yourself will always be better than being with someone who makes you spiral like this.

DileenODoubts · 29/09/2020 11:36

Op look up and do some reading on anxious attachment. Try to stop the constant justifying and portioning up of blame.
Accept and detach from him without blame or self recrimination, there doesn’t have to be a good guy and a bad guy.
Spend all this energy on you, on creating a nice calm life. You’re worth the effort.
He’s going on and on about how difficult you are - but then why does he want to stay with you? You’re not that difficult but it suits him for you to think you are. Call his bluff, say ‘you’re right, we shouldn’t be together’
But remember, don’t do it hoping he’ll fight for you.
Please read up on attachment styles, particularly anxious attachment

Bluntness100 · 29/09/2020 11:39

I think fundamentally you’re very unwell and he is not equipped to deal with it and can’t cope with it, his reactions don’t help you

I think you need to end this and focus on your recovery, and I think you need to get to that recovery position before you get involved in another relationship. For your sake. As this is not going to get better like this. He is not giving what you require because he’s unable mentally to do so, he lacks the skills, the patience, the experience.

I really jope you don’t turn to someone else, like your other neighbour and become physically involved with them, as this will make it a lot worse.

You need to take time, take your medication, get counselling, and focus on your recovery.

differentnameforthis · 29/09/2020 11:42

I got to this... I don't believe I was being angry at all. I tried to bring something up that bothered me as carefully as I could because I know how he reacts sometimes.

You are walking on egg shells around him. This is not the basis for a happy relationship, and proves how problematic his behaviour is.