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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

FWB vs "traditional" relationship

96 replies

Traveller2020 · 27/09/2020 15:46

My personal view is I don't want a relationship in the traditional sense. I'd much rather have a FWB.

I've had friends tell me I'll change my mind but I've felt like this for a very long time. I was married at a young age (18) and didn't really have time for me.
For me even the best relationship requires some compromise and I don't want to compromise anymore. I'm too set in my ways and couldn't live with someone whose opinions I'd have to consider (selfish I know but it's how I feel)

I'm in my mid 40s and don't see myself changing my mind. Are there any others who think like this or are the majority of people looking for a "traditional" relationship?

OP posts:
FifteenToes · 29/09/2020 16:39

I'm feeling much like the OP. 20-year marriage ended. It was amicable and I'm not bitter, but I just feel like it was 20 years (well, the last ten maybe) of daily, grinding effort to adapt my life, desires, attitudes and beliefs around someone else, with limited success and ultimately, for what?

Perfectly open to falling deeply in love spontaneously with someone if it happens, but somehow I just don'g feel like it will the way I did in my twenties. I suppose I don't particularly want it to. Finding that just being myself and living my own life is so refereshing.

But then you get horny...

Rocaille · 29/09/2020 16:44

Hmm, yes it's a conundrum.

I can't see myself wanting a relationship with a man ever again, don't want casual sex either and yet my libido just won't quit!

Wish I fancied women. 😭

FifteenToes · 29/09/2020 16:52

@noego

I'll say it again the narrative needs to change, this is not about FB's or FWB's. So for example. I'm single, solvent, own home, car, have hobbies, same sex friends, volunteer for charities, and family. Happy as a pig in shit. I do not want to get married, live with anyone or be shackled to them, I have so much going on in my life and require the freedom to do what I do. However I do like the company and friendship of the opposite sex and so I have friends of the opposite sex that are exactly in the same situation as I am and have the same philosophy. We meet for dinner, lunch, coffees, cinema, we have weekends away. We have intimate times when it happens and we have times when intimacy doesn't happen. It is no big deal. We talk on the phone, share each others lives, support each other when necessary, just like any friend would. Sometimes I cook dinner for them, sometimes they cook dinner for me, sometimes its a takeaway with a movie. There is absolutely NO PRESSURE to do anything anyone is uncomfortable with. It's very simple. Grow old together under separate roofs, live together apart. It's great. It's not all about sex. I have a few friends and lovers. I'd recommend it to anyone. And then the question that is always asked is....what happens if they meet someone and want a relationship with them? The answer is quite simple. Great as a friend you'd want your friend to be happy and if that happens you let them go without animosity. because the greatest love is being able to love someone enough to let them be free to be who they want. It has happened in the past and we're still friends. It really is no big deal. It's IMO the most mature and adult way to have a relationship.
I love this idea in theory. The only problem with it is health concerns.

I know the answer to this is always just "use condoms" as though that simply resolves everything and there's nothing more to consider. But condoms have disadvantages. Some men can't get on with them. Being in a monogomous relationship where you don't have to worry about them is so liberating, just physically. If I ever get back out there again I know there'll be a sense in which I feel testing the water using condoms is a half-way step towards have a monogomous relationship (LTR, FWB or whatever) without them.

I really don't believe in monogamy, and see all the problems and traditional societal crap tied up in it. But medicine just hasn't caught up with socio-political enlightenment, yet.

noego · 29/09/2020 17:21

@Otterhound.

Are you my stalker by any chance?

noego · 29/09/2020 17:23

And as you said @Otterhound. This isn't about sex. This is about "lifestyle"

Rocaille · 29/09/2020 17:25

Agreed.

Condoms are not a reliable protection against pregnancy, neither do they shield a woman from HPV or HSV: potentially life-changing viral infections.

Hormonal contraceptives promote mood disorders and gynaecological cancers, while the copper coil comes with painful, heavy bleeds and risks of infection & uterine perforation.

Plus no contraceptive is 100% effective, so every encounter carries a risk of pregnancy, abortion and/or childbirth.

It's fine for men like no ego to preach silly concepts like 'relationship anarchy' but we women don't have the luxury to be so frivolous.

wishfuldreamer · 29/09/2020 17:37

I'm not a man, @Rocaille, and I do subscribe to something similar. i'm polyamorous, have a couple of consistent partners and (in a time outside of a global health pandemic) freely engage in casual sex. There are, of course, some potential health risks attached to this, but my experience of the poly community is that everyone is very rigorous about testing and are open about discussing when they were last tested, previous partners, etc etc. I'm not blase about it, but equally i'm not going to be terrified about something that has a relatively small risk. I have thought about getting an HPV vaccine though, if i ever feel confident enough to date again.

I think I entirely have the luxury to be 'frivolous'. I don't have children, I have access to birth control and I have partners who i trust to be sensible - we use condoms, we get tested, and no one has unprotected sex (or if they do, they tell each other and let the other person decide what they want to do about that).

Regarding the point made above, asking @noego if he'd really be happy if someone 'called it a day and started something up with someone else'. Well, a few things on that point. Not speaking for @noego here, but for me, relationships (romantic or otherwise) are not about ownership. I do sometimes wonder if people get married just to tie someone to them, out of fear of being left. And yet, marriages do end - people do 'call it a day' and start something with someone else. I think the thing I like about polyamory, particularly more modern, unhierarchical approaches, is that there is acceptance about the way that relationships can morph and change. One of my partners has a very close, platonic relationship with his ex-wife, who he freely admits he will always love immensely. Their relationship changed, and it wasn't easy, but they worked it through and it's been able to shift into something else, which is still important in their lives. My other partner and I started out as something much more casual and less emotionally invested than we have now - we were good friends, who started sleeping together, and it grew into something else. it's not easy to label, and neither of us are that bothered about labelling it. It works for us - it's a close, intimate friendship, and we love each other in our own way. Perhaps one day, we'll stop sleeping together and go back to just being close friends.

I think we have a lot of expectations on the way that relationships 'should' look. And some people want the whole marriage, babies, my-partner-is-my-best-friend idyll. But I think too many people don't enter into traditional monogamy 'consciously' - in the sense that they don't really examine their choices or why they're doing it, or even if they really want it, but just because they've never taken the time to think their could be an alternative.

Anyway...just some thoughts from me, in a bit of a ramble.

category12 · 29/09/2020 17:42

@Rocaille

Why would you assume that, category? That's a non sequitur, isn't it?
Because you don't seem to consider the possibility that a woman might just enjoy sex without wanting love or commitment from the person she's having sex with, that you seem to think it's transactional rather than a woman might find sex enjoyable of itself.
Rocaille · 29/09/2020 17:46

Interesting. I married explicitly for the benefits it would confer on my child and myself. If I was going to have a baby, I wanted 100% of my then boyfriend's love, attention and money to be focused on us indefinitely.

I agree that, where no children are involved, monogamy makes no sense whatsoever for women, although it's a pretty good deal for men.

Just look what happens to married women: how their health, happiness, financial and social power gets progressively consumed by their husband, who experiences commensurate gains in all these areas. (There are so many studies that attest to this). It's truly chilling.

wishfuldreamer · 29/09/2020 17:47

this is slightly off topic, but @category12 - how do you do the quote thing? Has been bugging me for ages that I can't do it!

noego · 29/09/2020 17:50

@Rocaille

No one is forcing any women into "silly concepts like RA" or any human for that matter.

What it is, is a different way to look at relationships. Take it or leave it. Everyone has a choice.

AnaViaSalamanca · 29/09/2020 17:51

@Rocaille The OP is asking about FWB (a mid-way between casual sex and a committed relationship), not whether casual sex is at all a good or bad thing. Just saying.

wishfuldreamer · 29/09/2020 17:51

I feel like you've just contradicted yourself, @Rocaille - you've said you got married for benefits that you then suggest don't exist in your final paragraph? Is it that men don't subsume their wives' power when there are children involved, or that children give power, or...?

I dunno...I guess I just don't see my relationships like this. But I'm also financially independent, and even if I had children would continue to be. But even being married doesn't guarantee the things that you entered into the institution for, though it certainly gives you some rights on the breakdown of the relationship.

category12 · 29/09/2020 17:57

@wishfuldreamer I'm on my laptop's browser and at the top of each post there are options to report, quote etc, and on my phone, there are 3 dots at the bottom of posts that open up to give options to quote. If you're using an app, I don't know.

FWB vs "traditional" relationship
wishfuldreamer · 29/09/2020 18:01

[quote category12]@wishfuldreamer I'm on my laptop's browser and at the top of each post there are options to report, quote etc, and on my phone, there are 3 dots at the bottom of posts that open up to give options to quote. If you're using an app, I don't know.[/quote]
I swear to everything above I have never noticed that function before, despite looking. am a moron. Thank you!

Rocaille · 29/09/2020 18:01

Yes, I did contradict myself. Perhaps marriage is good for men and good for children, but bad for women?

To be frank, I'm not sure women have much to gain from engaging with men at all, on any terms, whether that be traditional relationship, fwb or anything else.

In general, men have little of value to contribute. As a class, they are a complete dumpster fire: violent, needy, and degenerate. No thanks!

wishfuldreamer · 29/09/2020 18:05

@Rocaille

Yes, I did contradict myself. Perhaps marriage is good for men and good for children, but bad for women?

To be frank, I'm not sure women have much to gain from engaging with men at all, on any terms, whether that be traditional relationship, fwb or anything else.

In general, men have little of value to contribute. As a class, they are a complete dumpster fire: violent, needy, and degenerate. No thanks!

I'm really sorry you've clearly had such bad experiences. I try and evaluate people individually, rather than as a class...and while I certainly have had bad experiences with men, I also have had with women, and these days I'm just careful about the people i form relationships with in general - platonic or otherwise. but I know some lovely men, who work hard on their emotional openness and relationships skills, and some women who could really do with doing some more...
CodenameVillanelle · 29/09/2020 18:08

@Rocaille

Yes, I did contradict myself. Perhaps marriage is good for men and good for children, but bad for women?

To be frank, I'm not sure women have much to gain from engaging with men at all, on any terms, whether that be traditional relationship, fwb or anything else.

In general, men have little of value to contribute. As a class, they are a complete dumpster fire: violent, needy, and degenerate. No thanks!

Marriage is shit, FWB is shit, what do you suggest for heterosexual women? Celibacy or relationships with women they don't fancy??
DillonPanthersTexas · 29/09/2020 18:10

To be frank, I'm not sure women have much to gain from engaging with men at all, on any terms, whether that be traditional relationship, fwb or anything else.

In general, men have little of value to contribute. As a class, they are a complete dumpster fire: violent, needy, and degenerate. No thanks!

I'll pass this on to my wife.

Heffalooomia · 29/09/2020 18:14

Just look what happens to married women: how their health, happiness, financial and social power gets progressively consumed by their husband, who experiences commensurate gains in all these areas
TL:DR husband = tapewormShock

category12 · 29/09/2020 18:17

TL:DR husband = tapeworm

GrinGrin

Rocaille · 29/09/2020 18:19

I've actually got off pretty lightly trauma-wise: no pervy uncles or rapey boyfriends in my past, luckily. But I've done a fair amount of work with both victims and perpetrators of abuse, which has coloured my worldview somewhat.

Female biology comes with huge burdens. I can't blame men for that: they didn't invent it. But the reality is that a very large number of males are either dangerous predators or parasitic bloodsuckers. That's why I'm proposing a policy of ruthless female self interest.

Rocaille · 29/09/2020 18:21

Heffalooomia, lol Grin GrinGrin

category12 · 29/09/2020 18:23

But surely a woman's self-interest can include shagging a bloke she wants to shag without commitment, without acting like he's getting something she isn't?

Rocaille · 29/09/2020 18:28

Hmm, maybe. But please make sure he's young, hung, and eats you out like his life depends on it!

It offends me when men with dadbods and ED get easy access to sexy, beautiful women.