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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He doesn't love me. Stay or go? WWYD?

97 replies

ColdLeatherSofa · 27/09/2020 10:34

I used to hope (maybe even assume), like most people, that I'd meet someone and we'd fall in love. However, I have a very rocky relationship history. No love and I've never felt special to anyone.

Nearly a year ago, I started seeing someone I'd known for a couple of years. I never had any sense he was attracted to me at all and then, late last year, we bumped into each other and he asked me out for lunch. Now, 11 months later, here we are.

We socialise as a couple with couple friends (as much as restrictions have allowed); we are in a support bubble; we see each other for most of the weekend, every weekend except when either of us has plans and in the week when life allows. He's kind and considerate to me and definitely isn't seeing anyone else. We behave like a couple - he refers to us as a couple and refers to me as his girlfriend; we are supportive, encouraging and accepting of each other, so he doesn't treat me badly, but he doesn't love me and doesn't behave in a way that would give me false hope either. I appreciate the honesty of his words and actions but it makes me sad because I wish he did.

I decided a few weeks ago that I'd give it until the year mark and then, if it was no different, I'd end it. If he doesn't love me after a year, he isn't going to. Would that be foolish of me?

I would like to find love but it's never happened before and, despite the lack of it, this is, in many ways, the best and most real relationship I've ever been in - which is sad because that's clearly not the case for him. Should that bother me?

This relationship could tick along pleasantly for years but I'll still never have known love. So I plan to talk to him at the 1 year mark and essentially tell him this. I know though that I could lose what we do have and still never find love.

It's 4 weeks until my self imposed deadline. I feel that if I don't address it in some way then, I'm just going to be kicking the can down the road but I don't know if ending it would be hasty.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 27/09/2020 18:37

And what do I say if he tells me that he doesn't like to think to far into the future or is just enjoying getting to know me and doesnt want to rush into anything that's wrong for both of us

Then he’s told you what you don’t want to hear op and all you need to know. He didn’t tell you he loves you or sees a future with you. That’s a fob off avoidant answer.

So you either end it now you know, or continue, knowing what you thought, is now confirmed.

He’s not going to spell it out op. He’s not going to say you’re a stop gap or anything like that. Unless he’s a complete wanker he’s going to be nice about it.

TwentyViginti · 27/09/2020 18:48

whilst we had a really enjoyable day out yesterday, a lovely evening together and sex, I've come away just feeling sad and empty

The fortune cookie;

His said something like 'the love of your life will appear before you unexpectedly'. Mine was thrown away with the rubbish. He removed his and quietly put it on the windowsill.

You feel he's settled for you as good enough for now.

MzHz · 27/09/2020 18:54

I had this. A year and he said he was with me cos I made it easy/ convenient

It was hard to end it, but absolutely correct

A couple of false starts later and I’m now 4 years in to a truly amazing relationship with a man who has transformed every aspect of my life. I am happy, HE is chuffed to pieces to have me in his life.

We’re in Our 50s.
Never EVER give up on yourself, hold out for happiness and have faith.

Please don’t stay In this, you deserve better.

ColdLeatherSofa · 27/09/2020 18:57

And what do I say if he tells me that he doesn't like to think to far into the future or is just enjoying getting to know me and doesnt want to rush into anything that's wrong for both of us

He hasn't said that. I'm just trying to anticipate things he might say to fob me off. I'm guessing if that's obvious, I can just tell him that it's obvious he's trying to fob me off!

He did say the thing about lockdown but, tbh, I agree with him on that. How do you find out whether you enjoy doing stuff together when you can't actually do stuff together?

He’s not going to spell it out op. He’s not going to say you’re a stop gap or anything like that. Unless he’s a complete wanker he’s going to be nice about it.

Not sure how it would be nice to not be honest though.

something2say

That makes sense too.

You feel he's settled for you as good enough for now

Yes. Yes, I do.

Tbh, that's really what I want to tell him.

I really just want to end it but there's a little voice stopping me saying "what if you're making a mistake?". But I know I'm not. I've been here before. And on both sides too.

OP posts:
TwentyViginti · 27/09/2020 19:06

I think his keeping the fortune cookie would be it for me.

Home42 · 27/09/2020 19:13

I wonder what you think love looks like? He has chosen a monogamous relationship with you. He cares for you, does nice things for you and prioritises spending time with you. Why do you think he doesn’t love you? Is it just because he has never said it? Have you said it to him?

I suggest talking to him, tell him you want to love, could love but want to know that he feels the same. The worst that can happen is he says he doesn’t and you know and split up. If you are thinking of splitting anyway then give him a chance to say how he feels first. Perhaps he assumes he is showing his love and you’d already know how he feels...

ColdLeatherSofa · 27/09/2020 19:24

I think his keeping the fortune cookie would be it for me

That's kind of how I feel. I know its petty, but it feels a bit like wishing on a star tbh.

OP posts:
Sakurami · 27/09/2020 19:28

I want to give you a huge hug op. You so deserve to be loved and dont settle for anything else. I'm not convinced he doesn't love you, his love language may be different.

If I were you, I would be myself. Love him and show him your love. That he is your priority etc. If he doesn't reciprocate then at least you know and you'll have lost nothing.

TwentyViginti · 27/09/2020 19:34

@ColdLeatherSofa

I think his keeping the fortune cookie would be it for me

That's kind of how I feel. I know its petty, but it feels a bit like wishing on a star tbh.

It isn't petty. Yours went into the bin - but he put his on the windowsill - knowing you saw it.

I think it was the final coffin nail for you.

ColdLeatherSofa · 27/09/2020 19:46

MzHz*

Your post made me cry.

Tbh, I wouldn't try again. Everyone had such high hopes for this relationship. We have mutual friends who are invested in it and so happy we got together; my children like him; my friends were pleased I'd finally met someone. Many of them have only known me single and a few have been there to witness the car crashes that were previous relationship attempts. It will be bad enough telling them this is over, it would just be plain humiliating to introduce them to someone else in the future and for everyone to try again when the past 30 years of my dating history haven't ever really looked any different.

I just feel sad and embarrassed now that I let myself think it could be different this time. And that other people thought so too.

I said at the start of the thread that I knew he didn't love me. But part of me thought that maybe that didnt matter if everything else was ok. And maybe I could live with it. But I can't. And, I suppose, there was still the tiny hope that I was wrong. But I'm not.

OP posts:
ColdLeatherSofa · 27/09/2020 19:47

I just feel foolish.

I've arranged a bit of a night out with.some of my girl friends in a couple of weeks time. I've a feeling I'm going to need it.

OP posts:
ColdLeatherSofa · 27/09/2020 19:55

I wonder what you think love looks like? He has chosen a monogamous relationship with you. He cares for you, does nice things for you and prioritises spending time with you. Why do you think he doesn’t love you? Is it just because he has never said it? Have you said it to him?

No I haven't said it. I just know. I can feel it.

Perhaps he assumes he is showing his love and you’d already know how he feels...

I've also thought that but the simplest answer is usually the truth. It's more than that he just hasn't said it. Like I said, there is much about the relationship that is good and that I will be sad to lose. But I want to have love. To love and be loved. I don't get the sense he feels like that about me at all.

I want to give you a huge hug op.

I need it 😔

I'm not convinced he doesn't love you, his love language may be different.

I've tried telling myself that too. But I don't think it's that.

OP posts:
Honeyroar · 27/09/2020 20:19

You sound like you’re contradicting yourself- you want love and to be loved, yet you say you won’t bother in the future.. So what have you got to lose hanging on a bit longer?

To me it doesn’t sound all doom and gloom. You guys sound like you have nice times together, you tick along. It took him a while to say you were his girlfriend, he’s perhaps going to take longer than your cut off point to move forward a stage. As for the fortune cookie, did he really say it like you said, as though to rub your face in it? Or did he just read it out and your negative side latched onto it? It doesn’t sound quite as hopeless to me as you seem to see it. Personally I’d stick around, but spend more time with friends etc, not all your time with him.

Fefifofaff · 27/09/2020 20:23

Do you know what his baggage/back story is regarding relationships? Is there something in his past that might make it hard for him to let down his guard?

In the nicest way possible, you sound very difficult to get close to emotionally. If you won't be vulnerable to him, why would he instigate it with you? Perhaps he's protecting himself just as much as you are, if not with as much self awareness.

ColdLeatherSofa · 27/09/2020 20:50

You sound like you’re contradicting yourself- you want love and to be loved, yet you say you won’t bother in the future.. So what have you got to lose hanging on a bit longer?

I know I sound like I'm contradicting myself 😔

I'm 48. I've been 'dating' for 30 years. If I'd spent 30 years trying, and failing, to succeed at anything, I think it would be reasonable to say "you know, as much as I want this, it's just not happening for me". I've got to be realistic. I can't put myself through it again. Its embarrassing, humiliating and foolish.

As for the fortune cookie, did he really say it like you said, as though to rub your face in it?

We ate the meal, we made a bit of an "ooh, let's see what fate holds in store for us" type comment and opened them. We both read them out and I made a lighthearted comment along the lines of "well a mass produced fortune cookie told us, so it must be true!" He replied, "indeed" and we dropped them into the table. He later cleared the table in two trips to the bin and picked his up from the table and put it on the windowsill between trips. He didn't say anything else. He wasnt rubbing my nose in it and he didn't say anything unkind. But he did deliberately put it to one side to keep it.

Fortune cookie drama really does seem petty now! Grin

Do you know what his baggage/back story is regarding relationships? Is there something in his past that might make it hard for him to let down his guard?

Yes. He has said he lacks confidence and is worried about being rejected and hurt in relationships as a result. It's something that he is really self conscious about and I can't help but wonder if he feels compelled to be with me because he knows it's not an issue for me. Sort of like "well no one else is going to want me..."

In the nicest way possible, you sound very difficult to get close to emotionally

I think I am. But I try. I've also acknowledged it and he understands why.

OP posts:
ColdLeatherSofa · 27/09/2020 21:05

He has said he lacks confidence and is worried about being rejected and hurt in relationships as a result.

I suspect he doesn't feel that fear about me though. I get it. I'm an expert at the whole having what looks like a real relationship that isn't so you don't get hurt thing.

It's just what to say, how to bring it up, when to say it...

OP posts:
AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit · 27/09/2020 21:18

I very, very much relate to a lot of what you say OP. I've given up now too. I absolutely hate going through life not having fun and intimacy with someone special who wants to keep me safe and happy. Someone who is proud of me. But the few times I've bothered loving someone I've been shown I'm non-essential and not worth holding on to. There's only so many times you can go through that. At some point you end up shutting the door and saying fuck the lot of them. Sorry for the negativity I don't mean to drag you down and I hope your conversation ends happily. But if it doesn't I understand how you feel and I don't think you are contradicting yourself x

ColdLeatherSofa · 27/09/2020 21:30

At some point you end up shutting the door and saying fuck the lot of them

I think that's where I am tbh.

You're not dragging me down. Its helpful, although sad, to know I'm not alone Flowers

I've been meaning to talk with him about it for a few weeks but I can't quite find the right time or the right words. Which is also why i have given myself the 1 year deadline. I feel that would make sense.

Tbh, I suspect it will become a break up conversation rather than anything more positive. If nothing else, my doubts might prompt him to end it.

I'm just weary of thinking about it and the pain as much as anything. At least if it's over, I won't have to think about it anymore.

OP posts:
ladamanera · 27/09/2020 21:45

You sound like you need more than a hug. Have you considered therapy?
Dont underestimate what thirty years of not feeling loved can do to a psyche- thats a deeply damaging internalised rejection you have there which will block so much that is good and caring about lovers in the hope there's a taller mountain behind the summit of this one. Hope of something we have never experienced can turn into fetishisation of a fantasy- and can often block us seeing what is in front of our eyes.

You must have such a damaged heart, sweetheart, with confusion about how to do or feel, reciprocate or see love- unrealistic expectations of what it looks like, and how it can save you from that gnawing loneliness.

I have no idea what this man feels- nothing you have said makes me think you’d be a reliable narrator but then again, lots of relationships dont have coups de foudre and it may be he is looking around for someone else too. Maybe both of your inexperience with this stuff helped attract you? i dont know.

Ignore other peoples expectations. Get some therapy. Be kind to yourself. Leave if you feel he has one eye on the door and your needs arent met. But Do remember Its not you being unloveable, and that you have no all-seeing eye here- you may well have been loved- quietly, from a distance, comfortably, or even now, by him- everyone loves in different ways.

Best of luck x

IndecentFeminist · 27/09/2020 22:01

Are you sure the cookie wasn't about you? As in, he already knew you but then that became a relationship, so it was significant to him because he found it/you somewhere he wasn't expecting?

minmooch · 27/09/2020 22:18

You need an honest, no drama, not heavy talk with him. But you need to be honest. Without honesty you have nothing.

Lay your cards out. What have you got to lose? At the moment you are considering ending a good relationship because you are not sure whether he loves you or not. Give him the opportunity to be honest with you. If he can't give you a straight answer then he doesn't really love you. If he says he doesn't love you and can't see that happening in the future then you have your answer and can end it knowing the truth and you won't spend time afterwards wondering if you did the right thing.

If he tells you he does love you then you can decide if you equally love him to make a go of it.

But there is your vulnerability - starting the conversation. Building up to the conversation is probably making you more anxious than the discussion/decisions you could be having once you are honest with each other.

MzHz · 27/09/2020 23:15

@ColdLeatherSofa

MzHz*

Your post made me cry.

Tbh, I wouldn't try again. Everyone had such high hopes for this relationship. We have mutual friends who are invested in it and so happy we got together; my children like him; my friends were pleased I'd finally met someone. Many of them have only known me single and a few have been there to witness the car crashes that were previous relationship attempts. It will be bad enough telling them this is over, it would just be plain humiliating to introduce them to someone else in the future and for everyone to try again when the past 30 years of my dating history haven't ever really looked any different.

I just feel sad and embarrassed now that I let myself think it could be different this time. And that other people thought so too.

I said at the start of the thread that I knew he didn't love me. But part of me thought that maybe that didnt matter if everything else was ok. And maybe I could live with it. But I can't. And, I suppose, there was still the tiny hope that I was wrong. But I'm not.

Oh love, I don’t want you to cry! I want you to know that there IS better than this. I know what it takes to walk away from a meh relationship and I know that I’m worthy of a better relationship than this was for me

I very nearly gave up, I very nearly actually lost faith and thought that perhaps I was just one of those people who wasn’t supposed to be happy/loved etc.

I would have given up. I know I would.

Please don’t! Please believe you’re worth it. Because you are. I can see the kindness and generosity in your posts.

Maybe the fortune cookie needs to tell YOU this message... maybe it should have come to you.

It’s going to take time and a lot of faith, you’re going to learn a lot about yourself but it’s all worth it.

Do what you gotta do now anyway, get out of this relationship and then learn to be your own best friend. We can help you with this!

Huge mahoosive hug tp you.

MzHz · 27/09/2020 23:17

I crashed and burnt, spectacularly after I walked away from Mr Convenient

I was humiliated- I’d been so sure... but I learned a lot.

Everyone wants to see you happy and none of them/us know what’s going on behind closed doors, we all know this so you don’t have to worry about what it looks like. It’s what YOU feel like that’s important

ColdLeatherSofa · 28/09/2020 06:57

ladamanera

I've had therapy/counselling many times from being around 17. I'm in specialised group therapy which I've found to be really helpful and far more so than any of the individual therapy I've had. I understand a lot more and I've changed a lot but it doesn't really seem to have had any impact other than on how I feel about and see myself.

I understand that I'm not really a reliable narrator which is why I haven't broken up with him already. I take time to process what I'm thinking and feeling and consider alternatives to it.

Are you sure the cookie wasn't about you?

Yes. Quite sure 😔

minmooch

Thanks. I know I need to have the conversation and, you're right, starting it is going to be harder than dealing with the outcome. I go round to his house thinking "I'll say something today" but I can never find the right time to bring it up. I feel it's so obvious that it doesn't really need talking about I just need to do something. But then, I think of things he has done for me and I think that he wouldn't have done that if he didn't care. And in some cases, he's really put himself out for me. But that just makes me wonder if he does those things because of the person he is and how he wants to see himself rather than because he wants to do them for me.

It's hard because he told me early on that he doesn't like to let people down or hurt them and he does what he can to be a good and considerate person. And things I've seen, stories he's told me from his past, things other people have said support this. But that's when I come back to my experience of how other people see me. Perhaps I'm 'lesser' in his eyes and not needing of the same consideration?

I don't know. Theres just so much and I don't know if it's significant.

He left a credit card bill on his kitchen table - there were only two items on it and one was a delivery of flowers. I'm not really fussed about who he was sending flowers to but he clearly wanted to do that for someone and he hasn't wanted to do anything like that for me. I have done similar for him in the past.

He's not an avid fb user but, whilst we are friends, there is not a single photo of us on a day out or reference to me at all. It feels like he's happy for his closest friends to know about me but no one else. Which makes me wonder why. Does he want to appear single? Am I not attractive enough? Is he just not that fussed about it? But it also means I haven't mentioned him on mine. I'm not that fussed about fb either but I do share things I've done with my friends and days out etc but I feel I can't because I don't want to embarrass him.

Do what you gotta do now anyway, get out of this relationship and then learn to be your own best friend.

Thank you for your kind words. They mean a lot. Funnily enough, the best friend thing is something we focus on in the group therapy.

I know this isn't right for me but I'm finding it hard to reconcile it with what I know of him and to accept that I've just got another relationship on the fail pile whilst my success pile is literally empty.

I know other people just want me to be happy. I want that to. All of my friends are happily married - in some cases for 30+ years. Even those who have had shit past experiences or divorces have been with someone for 15+ years. Yet it just seems to elude me completely.

OP posts:
chatterbugmegastar · 28/09/2020 07:00

Try this on for size

You're right , he doesn't love you

But he doesn't love you because:

he can't get close to you,

he can't relate to you,

he feels the distance you set up each and every day and he can't understand why

he cant see the point in a deep relationship which is essentially a FWB,

he feels frustrated that after nearly a year the relationship hasn't moved on because you are holding him at arms length all the time,

he can't understand you through the barriers you erect and your lack of self belief and self worth which block him at every turn