Heart or Head, the classic conundrum

[Lillie1313]

Hi Gorgeous People,

I’d really appreciate advice from you all.

I’m currently taking a big step in my life, buying a house and moving away from my home town. The man I’ve been seeing the past two years is coming with (although I’m the owner of the house)
We have a gorgeous relationship and he’s kinder, lovelier than my past ex’s and we get along so well on so many levels. I could see myself marrying him and having kids, I’ve always wanted kids since I was one myself (always playing the mummy in the game’s at nursery, you know the score ;)) I know he wants marriage and kids too so I can see this all panning out very happily EXCEPT (and this is the head coming in over the heart now) he has 0 work ethic and hates all his jobs. He’s landed a job currently as a carer but hates it and goes on about how much he hates it but also is negative about every single other option that would suit his skill set. He’s been a chef, hated it. He’s been a hotel manager, hated it. He’s been a hollisitic therapist (this is what his degree is in) and hated it (!) and now he’s decided that he’d like to be a career gambler. This means that practically if I wanted to marry him I’d have to have a prenup so that I wouldn’t take on his debts (he already has credit card debt) and in the long run it would probably be me supporting the family fully as I don’t see him ever making a true income from gambling, as he thinks he will.

I’m keeping myself financially independent of it but it’s really hard emotionally because he bring all the stress and tension of loosing - as well as the highs of winning - to the house and I find it really hard not to soak up other people’s emotions and energy. Only last night he was really down and saying how hard it is but he feels he has no other option and it totally burst the great bubble I’d been in that day. I can’t have another conversation with him to suggest ideas for his future that doesn’t involve gambling “what about running a food truck?” “What about being an online dietary consultant” all met with No. I think the core issue is that he is from a long line of wealthy lawyers and had a trust fund basically until he was 35 and now he’s cut off from easy money and can’t handle having a low income job that is hard graft. I, on the other hand, had my first job at 14 and have worked really hard all my life to get to where I am and don’t mind a bit of graft considering I’m the first person in my family to ever go to uni, my dad couldn’t even read and write until the age of 12... so we’re very different in this respect.

Ok unloading done. What do you guys think !?
I’d go so far as to say he’s a soul mate in that we connect on so many things and he looks after me so well and makes me feel so loved and safe (I know he’d never cheat like my ex’s have) and we have so much fun and adventure together. But this work thing is a really big splinter in the foot of our relationship.

Do you think it could work ? Do you think in the age of modern women that I should accept that a man won’t be supporting the family financially and that I can do this myself as a strong fierce female !? Or do you think it spells trouble and that I shouldn’t consider bringing children into a relationship that is already financially unsteady !?

Thank you all for your advice xxxx

No it’s not going to work. Spare yourself years of pain and end it.
It’s already not an equal relationship when your the one getting the mortgage and he’s not got any income. He’s already sponging from you.
It’s only a matter of time before he starts ‘borrowing’ money from you.
My ex was a gambling addict. He lied and lied, he stole from people, he stole from me and it all ended when he took my debit card withdrew everything to gamble then fled, too ashamed to come back. They don’t change.
Find yourself a real man who contributes, that you can have a stable relationship with. Don’t have kids with him.
You could be with someone you could save with. Family holidays, get aways, days out and meals out...you will be paying for all of that yourself for the rest of your days.

If the position was he was just not ambitious but was prepared to be the home maker / child carer it could work.

But it's not that. It's different values. It's a lack of work ethic (child care and house work is still work), it's negativity and moaning about any work, which brings you down, and it's a serious gambling habit.

I'm afraid this man will not give you the life you want.

You seem to feel just because he is mostly nice and you generally get on well you should stick with him. Don't, there are too many fundamental flaws to build a family with him.

He's not the one.

Move on your own, and start again.
You'll be OK.

There are so many red flags I can't even count them.

You might as well go and buy a shit tiny flat now because that's all you'll be able to afford by the time he fks off with your money.

But the problem is that now I’m in the web, I’m all caught up in life with him and I don’t know how to get out.

Yes you do. Speak out. Enlist the help of others to put together a plan. Implement it.
Don’t look back. Block him on everything because he will harass, hound and manipulate you.

We’ve booked a moving van with all my stuff and his going to the new house together in two weeks time.

Make alternative arrangements excluding him.

What happened in your childhood, what are your parents like?

You need therapy to understand how you have drifted into a series of abusive RS and how not to let this happen again.

I really hope that you consider some of the posts on here. Reflect over a few days and in years to come realise that this was the most important CHOICE you made in your life.

Choose wisely. Listen again, more carefully to your gut - it is screaming at you that this is “off”.

Do you know about “love-bombing” and “future-faking”

what makes you think that a man so allergic to hard work (or work of any kind) is going to magically work hard in a relationship? kids are hard work - and this man will do nothing and everything will be not his fault

he is the very definition of an entitled cocklodger

I am sorry love - really am - but you HAVE to extricate yourself from this

He is NOT the only man in the world and you will find love with a decent man who isn't an entitled child

I’d go so far as to say he’s a soul mate in that we connect on so many things and he looks after me so well and makes me feel so loved and safe (I know he’d never cheat like my ex’s have) and we have so much fun and adventure together.

You are the fatted calf that he's fattening up to provide him with free everything. He knows the gambling isn't long term viable as a source of income but he can't admit that to you. He has wants that he cannot fund himself and has been investing his time and "love" in you to seduce you in to providing it for him.

If there was anything about him that indicated he would be a fantastic SAHD, then yes, maybe. But being a parent is relentless, bloody hard work 95% of the time esp when they're tiny: I just cannot see a workshy man like him stepping up to the plate so that you can return to work post mat leave, without worrying yourself stupid about what he's doing/not doing with the kids. From what you've written about him, he would put his WANTS ahead of your children's NEEDS every single time. You would end up working yourself into the ground trying to cover all the bases so that your kids don't suffer ... too much.

Whatever grief and hassle and upset and heartache you might experience now in binning him off, it will be as nothing compared to the horrendous bind you will find yourself in once you have children with him.

Basically everything @DisappearingGirl and @Sssloou said.

I honestly believe this is a man whose primary goal is being fed and housed and clothed for free. He will use anyone, including seeking to be designated as primary carer of his future children post split with you, to achieve that aim via state benefits.

You must be feeling completely shell-shocked by the responses you've had on here but stay strong and give yourself time and breathing space to digest it all and come to terms with it.

Good luck

Run for the hills!

Move alone.

Even sharing a home risks damaging your credit rating.

Was thinking, you also need to change your narrative a bit: ie. this is not a 'heart vs head conundrum', or an issue of 'soul mates' and 'modern women' ready to support a family financially.

This is a question of addiction, irresponsibility and unemployability, two issues which will affect your relationship in the long-term and impact your partner's ability to be a good father to your future kids.

sorry, should have written three issues, not two.

You sound like a strong, independent woman and you'll be fine. Move onwards and don't let anyone hold you back! Your future kids will thank you for it xxx

How are you doing OP? I noticed that yin said that you get whipped up into his high and low moods depending on whether he won or lost. It’s good that you have noticed that - because you need to emotionally detach in your head.

Is there anything else going on with him - does he drink or take drugs, are you familiar with the characteristics of personality disorders - have a read of the link from The Mayo Clinic. His issues seem v deeply entrenched are are likely much more complex than the gambling alone.

How old is he and how old are you? What’s his relationship history?

IMHO he love bombs you just like he is holding on to a bet for pay back. Also he is future faking for the same reason - he doesn’t want marriage and kids - he is just throwing you a bone to keep you distracted whilst you inadvertently enable and facilitate his addiction by housing and feeding him and relieving him of all adult responsibilities (ie holding down a job) so that he has a clear path 24/7 to indulge his addiction.

He will likely run up debts against your property.

“People who gamble compulsively often have substance abuse problems, personality disorders, depression or anxiety. Compulsive gambling may also be associated with bipolar disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) or attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).”

www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/compulsive-gambling/symptoms-causes/syc-20355178

You have worked so hard to achieve what you have. That’s a remarkable effort - don’t let him squander it - but most importantly don’t let him destroy you emotionally because it seems that you are in a futile co-dependent dynamic trying to support and fix him.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency - see if you recognise anything here.

“Codependency is a behavioral condition in a relationship where one person enables another person's addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement.”

“Enable” is a tricky term - because that is the opposite of your actual intention but your actions inadvertently facilitate the problem.

As PP has said - the real dynamic here is that you are tangled up with an addict. It doesn’t matter what the substance or activity is the core relationship issues are the same. This book changed my life:
www.amazon.co.uk/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

This chap sounds as though he has some pretty big problems in terms of his identity - that many job shifts could be fecklessness but I notice he finished a degree in holistic therapy, which does require commitment. He sounds too confused about who he is and what he wants to be an equal partner here. I speak as the person in a relationship who was the one never happy in a job and who went through quite a few. I found my path later on and now no one would doubt my work ethic. It depends on whether you are prepared to be the solid base he comes home to whilst he’s finding out who he is. Add children into this mix and I share pp doubts. I think you would be parenting him and your children. Have you talked to him about your concerns about his future plans? Is he a happy drifter or miserable and genuinely looking for something fulfilling? I would say don’t get financially involved here, and make sure you set some firm boundaries.

Op, I think this comes down to how you feel about being with someone who gambles for a living. I was in a long term relationship with someone from university who became a ‘professional gambler.’ He did actually make a reasonable income from it (he was probably the exception) but I found myself gradually resenting it more and more as I really didn’t respect it as a profession and he was lazy. He also had loads of ideas for businesses he wanted to start that I’d get right behind to support him with but he never took the step to get them off the ground because gambling was too easy for him and he thought it was cool.

We were together a long time but ultimately the gambling and lack of proper career was the end for us. I hated people asking me what he did for a living which people do frequently. It was my problem not his but ultimately I fell out of love with him despite us being so well matched otherwise.

I’d say if it bugs you now then it will only get worse, sorry. Please don’t settle, there will be someone out there who has similar qualities but with the career drive you seek as well. Good luck!

No please don't. The good think about mumsnet is that there are so many people here who have experience of how things pan out and you can be 100% sure that having children with this man would be a disaster. A poor work ethic is a complete and utter turn off apart from anything else. I would end things before he moves in with you, it will only be harder further down the line. He won't be your soul mate when he has gambled away every last penny.

My son in law is a professional poker player. Professional means that he hardly ever loses and if he does it causes no anger - just part of the job. Your guy sounds like an addict and a cocklodger. So sorry OP -move on if you want a happy family life.

Echoing PPs, run. He's never going to change and you'll end up doing everything, earning the money, cleaning, cooking, child care while he gambles. What happened to his trust fund? 35 seems a strange age to end it. Did he spend/gamble it away?

@Justtickingboxes, exactly. Not head or heart debate as there are major issues here.

You will lose respect for him and have resentment. What if you became ill, which can happen at anytime or just unwell during/after a pregnancy? How would you cope, effectively you would be alone.

Has he lost all his trust fund money?

Wow this guy is a cocklodger of the highest order. So you work hard, get a house, he will move in and you can take over mummy duties for him. He can sit around all day not working but getting more and more in debt? What happens when the baliffs start knocking at your door because hes registered as living there? Oh no, run for the hills. Its not too late, yes theres going to but upset but rather now than two years down the line with kids. You are worth than this x

*worth more than this

@Justtickingboxes

Was thinking, you also need to change your narrative a bit: ie. this is not a 'heart vs head conundrum', or an issue of 'soul mates' and 'modern women' ready to support a family financially.

This is a question of addiction, irresponsibility and unemployability, two issues which will affect your relationship in the long-term and impact your partner's ability to be a good father to your future kids.

I was about to say exactly this. It's not a head vs heart thing at all. It's sleepwalking into jeopardising your own future, and that of your potential children, with an irresponsible, workshy gambler.

Like you, OP, I'm the eldest child of semi-literate parents who left school very early, the first in the family to go to university, the first to have a job other than unskilled manual, and I have a ferocious work ethic. But I married someone who has a similar ethos for a similar reason.

Don't do this to yourself. This is a good time to end things.