How bad - or normal - was this parenting "trick"? (90s)

[CornwallCucumber]

Been thinking about my childhood recently and how little I can remember of it. I googled this and found something to do with depression and amnesia, and how kids with bad childhoods repress their memories. I don't think I was abused as a child but I tried to cast my memory back to my worst childhood experiences I could remember, wondering if anything could explain it. I came to the conclusion that it's probably just plain poor memory and nothing to do with trauma, but anyway - I remembered a "trick" my dad would use to get me to shut up and go to sleep, and now that I reflect on it as a parent myself it seems pretty cruel. I'm wondering how normal this sort of threat actually was back then:

I was always terrified of being on my own in a room especially at night and if I didn't have a parent with me I was too scared to fall asleep. If for whatever reason they didn't want to sit with me, I would scream and cry and refuse to sleep. If this continued and I didn't settle down my dad would pretend to phone a man to ask him to come and take me away because I wasn't behaving. He would actually pick up the phone and have a theatrically loud pretend conversation about how I'm being naughty and not sleeping and okay great, you can pick her up soon then. Then I'd go quiet because I was four and that sounded scary, and he'd say to this man, hang on, don't worry, she's settled down now. Then I'd just lie there feeling terrified, not of being taken away, but of whatever it was that scared me in the first place - monsters, the dark, ghosts, I'm not actually sure what precisely but I know it was a real fear and not just a bedtime delaying thing. And I guess I eventually did sleep. I don't know when it started and ended but I'm sure this trick was used from at least he age of 4-6.

Now I look back on it I think that was pretty shitty although I can see how you might go to desperate measures when dealing with kids who just won't sleep.

How normal were these sort of parenting threats in the 90s?

Also, this shouldn't be necessary and I'm sure it also has no legal standing but FUCK OFF tabloids, you do not have permission to share this story or quote any of my posts.

I'm a 70s kid, my Nan used to threaten to put us on the 'Ship Clio' if we were naughty. I used to think she'd made it up but it turns out it was a real Victorian training ship for young offenders.

It was always jokey though, I never actually feared being taken out to sea.

Sounds totally normal to me, but then my mother was a physically abusive bully with an alcohol problem so... I'm probably not best placed to pass judgement here.

“ Parents used to threaten us with Esther Rantzen!” @managedmis - I’m so glad it wasn’t just me that was threatened with random celebrities. We were direly warned of Kylie Minogue.

I think it’s quite hard for parents to know where to draw the line isn’t it? I don’t think a PP who threatens to call the teacher is being mean and traumatising. One friend of mine threatens to call a favourite auntie to tell her when the kid’s being a pain. I’ve had to play along with a family member who’s told her children that “WW isn’t coming to stay any more if you don’t behave” - when I arrived I had to say I was so glad they behaved so I could come and visit after all. Etc. Even a random parent on the train pointing to me and telling their little one that if they didn’t stop it, that lady will be cross.

I do think threatening with being taken away is worse but it really depends how seriously they wanted you to take it. Possibly they didn’t realise how much you’d take it to heart? My dad used to say he’d give me back to the stork but I always found that funny.

John Bishop does a bit about this in his stand up routine - iirc his dad would phone a fake copper. He had a much younger brother and one day received a call from his dad, to the 'constable'.

Not normal and very cruel. You still hear parents telling their children to behave or they will be left/will ring the police etc, I always think this is awful too.

I definitely remember my mum doing this once. I was literally terrified on the floor crying my eyes out and begging her. Horrifically cruel. Would never do this to my children now. I didn't have a traumatic childhood at all, but was spanked and I remember this happening once.

My mum and aunt tell the exact same story about the nuns, it absolutely terrified them.

Another vote for some kind of weird parenting hack.

Remember controlled crying was advocated by so called 'experts' and then the likes of Dr. Penelope Leach found that it stressed kid's brains. When she started saying this and researching findings, her scientific peers didn't believe her. Quelle surprise

Or how advice about looking after babies changes each year. When I was an au pair it was advised to put babies on their front to sleep. Now it isn't as far as I'm aware.

Likewise forward facing prams are back in vogue. When I had mine fifteen years ago you couldn't get one for love nor money and mine was vintage.

I'm sorry you went through this OP. At it's best parenting is all about mending the damage done by mistakes you have made. Sooner or later you are going to make them. Which doesn't accuse abuse, of course. But sooner or later you will. Through lack of experience, stress or whatever.

Mine was a sound sleeper when she was younger. But even I remember the constant back and forth of 'can I have a glass of water'...etc.

Difficult when you are shattered at the end of the day. I remember being grateful that she wasn't a colicky baby. Don't know how parents manage with one.

Yeah phoning a man to come take you away was a thing. It featured in my childhood too.

doesn't excuse abuse not accuse

I think parenting has evolved to become much more child-centred and our parents might find the way we parent as somewhat indulgent.

Looking at it from your dad's point of view though, your behaviour does sound absolutely exhausting for your parents. The solution they found wasn't great but you see on here now parents on their knees with exhaustion with children that demand a parent stays with them until they fall asleep.

@Love51

John Bishop does a bit about this in his stand up routine - iirc his dad would phone a fake copper. He had a much younger brother and one day received a call from his dad, to the 'constable'.

I was just going to comment similar but I thought it was Jason Manford! It’s the first thing I thought of when I read the OP.

Agreed the trick isn't very nice.

But you sound extremely anxious and a child who refuses to sleep, at 4, and screams and screams, sounds a nightmare. Have you ever thought that this in itself isn't ok?

@Biscoffscoff thank you for the memory explanation, that makes a huge amount of sense. I always wonder why people can recall such detail and I don’t have a clue.

My dm’s own take if I was crying in public was to tell me that everyone was laughing at me. Or if at home when she told everyone at work they’d all be laughing at me. I feel that probably says more about her worst fears that mine. I am still reluctant to share my feelings, but these days she gives me crap for not sharing with her - almost like there’s a connections there!

My parents never did this (as far as I remember) but I do think it was quite common, and maybe still is to an extent (even if no Mumsnetter would ever do it!) because the police still post on social media asking people not to make their children scared of them by saying they'll take them away if they're bad!

I think it's really easy to be forgiving of your own mistakes as a parent and really hard to show your own parents the same understanding. From your account they sat with you most of the time and this happened if 'for whatever reason' they didn't want to sit with you? I suspect they remember these occasions a bit differently and that your dad was at the end of his tether. Which doesn't mean he was right and you were wrong - you were a little child - but nor does it mean he was being purposefully cruel.

If you post on MN saying that you have small children and cry in front of them, scream at them and have grown to hate them you get sympathy, told that you have depression and need help and get lots of tips of how to put yourself first, make more time for yourself, etc. If you post saying the same things but about your mother when you were a child you get told that she was a dangerous narcissist who deserves to rot in hell, who should never have had children and who clearly did it all for her own sadistic pleasure. We can all accept our own imperfections but even as adults it's hard to accept that our parents were also flawed human beings.

It wasn't normal for me. Sorry you were treated like that op.

I think it was horrible but in context of the times parents probably didn't think it was abusive. My parents had strict upbringing, went to school when corporal punishment was standard and if they got a bad beating in school - their parents didn't march down to the school to demand the teacher be fired but rather give them a slap because "they must have done something to deserve it".
I dont remember a specific incident like that but if it did happen I'd say my parents thought they were being reasonable as they were taught to hit a child if they weren't cooperating, which they never did.
Each generation learns from previous generations mistakes and does better. We know so much more about what effects child development now. Even still I'm sure my baby will grow up to tell me what things I've got wrong despite me trying my best.

That doesnt take away from the fact that it was traumatic for you. It's no harm to say to your dad that it really scared you and have a chat about it. Could be healing for you

I grew up in the 80s/90s I was a very fearful child and if I woke up in the night from a nightmare my mum wouldn't even ask questions I would get smacked and told I would have to stay in a boarding school if I carried on. God help me if I wet the bed. I remember trying to hide it from her. She had me when she was 17 and think she was out of her depth. My dad who was 13 years older than her seemed to be a lot more patient with us.

I have an ok relationship with my mum now but we are far from close.

This definitely happened in my family, I thought it was pretty normal. Looking back I don't think it was the best way to handle it but I also don't think it was abusive.

At 4 years old do you really think your parents should have sat with you all evening to get you to go to sleep? I have a friend who cuddles her 4 year old to sleep every night, it often takes hours and she has no time to herself, she's exhausted and burnt out. I don't think that's a great way to parent either to be honest.

My mother used to say she’d call my teacher and tell them what I was doing or that everyone was looking at me, or her favourite ‘you won’t have any friends’.

I think people still say these things, of course they do, but fewer perhaps and I think background is relevant. My mother had me young ish and wasn’t someone who would care to read parenting books and she would get frustrated and say whatever came into her head.

My nonna used to tell me the bau bau would take me away if I was naughty...mum used to tell her not to I think. It was in the day time though so I don't think I was that scared.

I threaten DS he'll have to go outside and live with the squirrels if he's naughty but he finds it hilarious as I do it in an exaggerated comedy style.

DS1 (4.5) is also super annoying/scared at bedtime but the most I do is tell him if he keeps talking I'll go back to the living room. We had an assembly once at school on 'never go to sleep on an argument' and I try to follow it.

I was a child in the 40s and 50s and don’t remember anything like that but my mum used to say she would run away and live with a black man if I was naughty. I had never seen a black man and used to ask if I could go with her which defeated the object I think. I was a rather spoiled only child and had a very happy childhood on the whole.

Each generation learns from previous generations mistakes and does better

Differently maybe, but not necessarily better.

I'm laughing at the threat to tell Esther Rantzen. Some children threatened to report their parents or teachers to Childline.

I think adults came before children back then (80s/90s)

Nonsense. There were some bad or misguided parents then, there are plenty of bad and misguided parents now. You could just as easily claim the same of parents now based on the number of parents who stick their children on screens rather than parent them - and that also would be nonsense. The simple fact is that you can't use a few cases are representative of an entire generation of parents.

I dont think its normal at all, but I think we underestimate how much more aware we are now of things that can possibly traumatise long term, rather than just being a mean prank or something. We have so much knowledge of all our different roles and expectations now and dont variate from the acceptable norm, whereas in the past, pre-internet, we kind of all were making it up as we went along and would do things that were done to us and how we saw people in our immediate circles acting.
Now we are so aware of everything I think stuff like this is more likely to be understood as going too far and potentially terrifying/traumatic