Toxic Parents-brilliant

[jenk1]

just thought id start a thread for this and thanks to the person who recommended it.

it has opened my eyes so much, for years i have been depressed and felt worthless and this book has shown me why, in the 3 weeks since i have been reading it i really feel like a changed person, im no longer at my parents beck and call and my self esteem is getting better.

has anyone else been affected by this book, id love to hear your stories.

This book changed my life. Just really opens your eyes and allows you to put in to words the difficulties you are experiencing with your parents. My mother was very physically and verbally abusive and my Dad completely useless at preventing it along with the odd bit of verbal and emotional abuse from him as well. After years of being told I was a Drama Queen, useless, a failure, being insulted and then told I was over reacting or to get a sense of humour and flat out denial of everything that had gone on. I was able to actually see that they are the ones with the problem not me. Have spent the last 25 years unhappy with the relationship with my parents but thinking it was all my fault. To read about other peoples experiences - so like mine - was just so reassuring. My story is on the My Mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry thread. This book along with a supportive husband and a lot of the advice I have read on Mumsnet honestly has helped me to move on and change things. I don t have a relationship with them anymore. I have written my confrontation letter but have yet to send it. Just the writing of it was really helpful. I know some self help books must be crap but some of them really can help change your life and this is one of them.

Yes, absolutely changed my life. My story is also on the thread "my mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry" which I started as a result of my mother's reaction to my confrontation letter (not good, but it doesn't matter - it WAS my finest hour!! ).

My mother, I now believe, has a narcissitc personality disorder and realising that (thanks Warthog if you are reading this for the suggestion - my counsellor said the same thing) has freed me even more.

My mother's own needs have been allowed to overshadow mine all my life. Like Amethyst, my stepfather's physical and verbal abuse of me was made my fault ("she's difficult, too sensitive,can't take a joke") or quite simply it didn't happen. My mother's denial of the truth about her negect of me as a small child and failure to protect me has undercut my ability to trust my own judgement all my life.

My mother is still in denial and I have finally given up on ever having a relationship with her, but I am also finally emerging from the twilight zone into a reality whereby I am a nice person and no longer (at her whim) either a child prodigy (brilliant, talented, etc - when reflecting her in a positive light) or an ugly, stupid manipulative, attention-seeking liar (whenever I don't behave exactly as she would like).

There is another book that I am now reading called "Trapped in the Mirror - adult children of narcissitic parents" which is very enlightening.

(Btw, Jenk, do I know you from the SN board, are you also a parent of a child with SN?)

yes pages you do know me from the SN board and i am a parent of 2 children with SN, i didnt connect that this was you!!

This sounds very interesting.....I am sure my lack of confidence and self esteem stems from my childhood. I could never talk to my mum about it but I don't know how to deal with it. I am going to take a look at this book.

I would love to read this, but does it make you hate your parents? I just want to be at peace with myself really.

Have just read the reviews and synopsis on amazon and that was my reaction banana....so I didn't order it. Are we right?

"Also, from the extracts I have read and the many posts about this book there seems to be a massive generalisation going on:
eg 'My mother was abusive towards me and my father was too weak to stop her".

Actually that does happen, have seen those words on here and on other sites I frequent. Fathers as well as Mothers can act as bystanders; people within toxic families often have defined roles.

"Just think for five minutes about the way our own children perceive our behaviour towards them. Most children, for instance, are convinced their parents favoured their sibling(s) - because children are not equipped to see the bigger picture at a young age and see grievances and slights which just aren't there, or certainly weren't intended".

This (seeing slights that were not intended) is actually used by some toxic parents as a jsutification for their behaviour - oh we did not mean it or or deny completely that such events happened. Another method some toxic parents use is to verbally attack the accuser themselves.

Parents do make mistake; good god yes. We all make mistakes in every facet of our lives. But there's a whole world of difference between a mistake that does no long term harm whatsoever and long term abuse and dysfunction that is often only realised when the child reaches adulthood. Again this is hard to comprehend for people whose families are not toxic in nature.

Toxic families can close ranks around each other leaving the "black sheep" of the family out in the cold.

Having just read this thread I do agree that we are in a 'I blame my childhood' attitude BUT saying that there are some people who have had really terrible parents.

My mother is mentally ill with depression, nervous breakdowns and alcoholism.

Here is the example I use when explaining why I no longer have contact with her.
When I was 11 I took my first 'cello exam. My dad took the results letter to work as he knew she would open it and it was adressed to me (this is a definite indication my father knew what she was like)
He got home, gave me the letter, she snatched it off me opened it and told me I'd failed.
My dad was confused thinking that surely I wouldn't be entered into an exam that I couldn't at least pass and he then told me I'd passed with a very high distintion.
Meanwhile, I was left in tears wondering why she did that.

I wrote a letter, similar to the 'confrontation letter' described as I felt I had to tell her exactly why I did not want contact with her anymore (after years of verbal and emotional abuse) I felt she could then never say to me that she didn't know why or I had never given her the chance to explain or apologise. Her reply was 'do we have to keep going over this?'

I feel very much at peace with my decision not to have her in my life and always respected my brothers' decisions as to whether they wanted contact or not (They don't)

My dad is equally difficult in different ways as he never stood up for me, is incredibly sexist and constantly hints that he is disapointed in the way I have lived my life (I chose not to become a 'cellist and left music college)

I think, sometimes, there is a need to say out loud 'They weren't great parents, they were abusive, they shouldn't have been and I feel I have to let them know that I know what they did.' It's what you do after the confrontaion letter that is really the important bit. Cry, scream, rant and rave about how unfair crap parents are, but then move on with your life, learn from their mistakes and don't repeat the cycle.

i appreciate your point sobernow and others but unless you HAVE been raised by toxic parents its difficult i suppose to understand the feelings that we as adults are going through that have.

my childhood was terrible, raised by an alchoholic father and a mother who used me as the scapegoat for ANYTHING that went wrong in the house, i was physically beaten,verbally and mentally abused and the effects are still with me now into my 30,s.

i didnt start this thread to recommend that anyone who was having a difficult time with their parents to actually go and buy the book but there are a few of us on MN that have been raised by toxic parents and for us this book has been a godsend.

i dont HATE my parents, i hate what they did and what they put me through, this book has taught me how to stand up to them and not let their behaviour make me feel worthless and that for me is priceless

Hi all. This thread is very interesting to me. I have bought the book in question but as it only arrived yesterday I am yet to start it.

The deabted point about whether or not they can all be that bad is also of interest.

As I have said I haven't yet read the book, but I do think that a confrontation letter is never going to be contructive. Blame never is, is it? And as SoberNow said, its sometimes seems hard to think that there are so many like that.

But I don't think a toxic parent is one who is necessaily evil or 'bad'. Most often they are just to wrapped up in themselves to be able to consider their child above themselves. Sometimes its the things they don't do that makes them toxic rather than the things that they do, don't you think?

I guess the word 'toxic' is quite emotional and I think it should be used to describe the relationship with the parent rather than the parent themselves.

I'd like to get from the book some ways of helping myself manage the feelings my childhood has left me with and possibly even a way to manage my relationship with my toxic parents. If it just told me that they were 'bad' and i was 'good' that would not be very useful to me.

I'd be interested in hearing other people's views. How do you define a 'toxic' parent? What are your experiences?

I've also had this book reccomended to me, and have read a very small amount of it. So far it's very interesting and illuminating.
I've had a stormy relationship with my mother all my life, which culminated, recently, with her drunkanly attacking me leaving me on crutches and unable to use my left hand for almost 2 months.
Really interested reading all this stories

I have done much reading on toxic parents in the past and found this interesting:-

What if you have a parent(s) who behave in a toxic manner? Fortunately, as an adult child you do not live them 24/7 and you likely have the support of a significant other in dealing with them. Essentially you need to deal with a toxic parent in the same way you would deal with a toxic partner: You confront the controlling behavior, offer alternative ways the two(or three) of you could relate, and see what happens. If your parent(s) refuse to change their behavior which, as mentioned above, will usually be control by toxic guilt induction, you will need to severely limit their contact with you. Since few of us would, or should, totally abandon an elderly parent who may need our help you'll probably maintain some contact with them, but you'll need to take control of the relationship. Not an easy task but by taking controlfor example by limiting phone calls, or by you choosing when you do or do not see them, etc., you may be able to offer them the help they need while keeping your emotional equilibrium.

I don't fully agree with that though.

the term "toxic" is a very emotive one - it can be applied to parental and emotional relationships. The idea of a toxic parent is particularily shocking because parents are supposed to keep you safe, nurtured, loved etc and it is very difficult to deal with when that love is not given or given with frightening conditions.
I do agree that labels can sometimes be attached too quickly, but I think that people who have a dark cloud hanging over their lives that does not allow them to live a free and emotionally open life owe it to themselves to find out why. If reading about toxic parents rings a bell with you, then there is a reason why.

Hi jenk1

Yes, if you like that also try 'divorce a parent' by beverley engel. Title is forbidding but its not all about divorce, its basically a version of toxic parents and how to change your relationship with them.

I am on the second half of toxic parents, some new things in there that were not covered in Beverley Engels book, but very thought provoking to the point I'm laying awake at night thinking about it! So yes, its moving me on in my life. Something very reassuring about reading of your parents behaviour in black and white, written by a psychologist that really makes you realise you are obviously not alone. In fact with toxic parents I would say it has an even better section on verbal/emotional abuse. Especially the tearful blackmailing bit I'm so used to.

Sobernow.

I go with what AttilatheMeercat says. Because if I speak my mind about your unhelpful comments I would still be here in the morning

Sobernow, I don t know if you have read some of the posts on the thread "My Mother cut me out of her life - long sorry" if you have not then maybe if you took a look you may understand why some of us are searching for understanding and if you like a label in order to come to terms with our childhoods.

In your post "She was a snob, an alcoholic and only defined herself by her looks - this makes her weak, not toxic".

Perhaps you don t like the word toxic but surely there are not many better words for the fall out of childhood with someone like this.

My mother was abused in childhood and I spent a lot of years excusing her behaviour on the strength of this. She then went on to abuse her own children. I do not abuse mine although having a similar upbringing to her. Though of course you are right in saying there are interactions with them that they will not remember as being pleasant, but they will never remember me striking them or insulting them or demeaning them in any way, just because I could. Therefore in my eyes this makes my mother toxic as she did all this and more. I would not call beating and neglecting a small defenseless child or two "the normal run of human relationships".

I agree that there has to come a point where we grow up and stop blaming other people but how is this possible when your parents are continuing with their abuse well in to your adulthood? The only way that this would work is if they stop abusing and allow you to grow. That is why these books are necessary to allow people to find a method that works for them in allowing them to grow up and move on.

Agree that the confrontation letter is not the best idea for everyone. Probably will never send mind as my Mother is not in the best of health. However I got a lot out of even writing it.

TBH Toxic is not my favourite word for my parents either Cold Hearted Selfish B*stards works better for me.

Amethyst, my mother was also abused and like you for years I allowed myself to excuse her behaviour without realising she was abusing me. As for the 'abandoning an elderly parent' someone made, I'm afraid my mother has made her own bed and there she must lie. I will not be a hypocrite when and if the time comes and offer a place in my home as I have seen her a handful of times since I was 14. Really, I don't even know the woman bearing mind I am now 32, married and have 1 child +1 on the way.

I don't view her as 'toxic' as she is a little old lady but I do view her behaviour as toxic. Her falure to address the past let alone try to make recompense means that in my view she has not changed at all. For that reason I could not have her in my house with my children. I have weekly psychology sessions to help me make sense of my past but most of all to move on from it. I have chose to break the cycle and that's a choice my mother had but didn't take. She chose her path which is her parrogative (sp?) but that doesn't mean I have to accept her or her behaviour.

"I just think people shouldn't go through life excusing their own behaviour by blaming others".

Hmmm. Well most emotionally balanced people don't but toxic parents certainly do. People for instance can use their fraility as an excuse to avoid censure.

I don't think any child of a toxic parent uses their parents as an excuse for their underlying troubles now. Instead they try to understand why on earth their parents acted this way towards them in the first place. What did they do to deserve such treatment?. After all parents are supposed to love unconditionally, cherish and protect their offspring from harm. Some people who become parents just cannot do that much to their childrens' emotional cost. Toxic people do not allow their children to grow but emotionally stunt them and keep them dependent.

Counselling and other such services weren't around particularly forty or fifty years ago (even twenty years ago) and such problems were often swept under the carpet only to fester outwards often in the childrens' direction. Such a lack of services and support did not help but perhaps as well these people would not have wanted to face up to their own issues in the first place.

Many toxic parents take out all their emotional insecurities on their offspring and blame them for all their (the parents) wrong doings.

Your Mother was no doubtless talented and popular to all she came across in the outside world. Her behaviour was indeed one aspect of her life but it was the most important aspect or should have been. It's how she behaved with you and your brother at home that ultimately matters though. Behind closed doors she was likely a very different person to the persona she presented to the outside world. Many toxic families have many defined roles and one of those is of the bystander. Toxic parents blames the child for all that went wrong in their lives and uses the child as a scapegoat for their own pain which they cannot or will not deal with. They don't accept that their actions are or were wrong and often deny such happenings took place in that they can't remember or that it was all taken out of context.

Their toxic behaviour also continues into adulthood; it is often only when the adult becomes a parent themselves that it is realised what harm was actually done to them in their childhood.

(There is a chapter in "Toxic Parents" about alcoholic families).

Quite apart from anything else I just feel that alcoholics are some of if not the most self centered and selfish people in the entire world.

There is alcoholism a bit further back in my family tree and what it also did was affect the lives of the people unforunate enough to be around them. My Nan is still alive and remembers well that part of family history.