How do I find my place in this relationship?

[WhoisRebecca]

My fiancé (wedding in December) has had a tough couple of years following the split from his ex wife, during which she tried to prevent him seeing his dc. She moved area and schools and he had a horrible 4 months waiting for a court date when he was granted regular access.

He and his family are traumatised by what happened and ex wife still sends long rambling texts during his contact with the dc and manipulates them on video calls - offering them gifts that they can only open when they go back to hers... The video calls can go on for 45 minutes and she mutters angrily if my dc can be heard in the background of the call. I am now feeling really anxious whenever dp gets a text from her - they will seize on any perceived parenting fail and I feel like my home and life are under scrutiny. The texts are often abusive even though dp sends polite ones back to her. I’ve tried to help dp, but it is now to the detriment of my mental health.

What is making matters worse is that his parents keep talking about his ex - who was she with at handover, is she still with her partner etc etc. I’m just feeling like I’m not sure where my place is in this relationship because ex wife dominates so much of our time. I don’t feel excited about the wedding (even without the COVID complicating factor) because of all of this

I’ve tried to talk to dp but he hasn’t broached this with his parents yet.

Is it really the right time to be going back to court to ‘fight for’ 50:50 contact with his children when he has already been to court for the contact he has got? I think he should let things settle for a year or two. Is it really going to help the situation?

He’s not going back until the current arrangement has been in place for a year. That will be after Christmas. It will go straight to a judge who is familiar with this case and has asked to keep the case if it comes to court again. She was spoken to about consequences that would happen if she continued to breach the order last time and the judge gave her quite a ticking off.

I don’t think she could be much more obstructive without breaking the order tbh. She is scared to break the order because the judge spoke about consequences (such as community service) and even a change of residency).

It will actually be two years since he last went to court - it is a two year order.

to be fair to him, if his ex was flexible at all or prepared to be amicable, the current arrangement would be fine. However he is concerned that she is attempting to alienate the kids and so he wants more time with them to ensure they don’t become alienated from him.

If it is a court order she cannot alienate him from the kids without breaking the order. If that happens he can take her back to court and if not then he needs to leave it.
If as you say she's afraid to break the order how can she alienate the kids?

Honestly, he sounds just as much to blame as her and he seems to be enjoying this tit for tat game just as much as she is. It seems you are trying to make excuses for him but I think if you took a step back and looked at it it would be easier for you to deal with it.
I think you are right to detach from all the court stuff and just let them argue it out between them.

Alienation can be emotional manipulation. Telling the kids that mummy is lonely without them and she cries. That daddy can’t look after them properly. It’s difficult to prove. I see it happening on the video calls so I know she’s doing it. It’s his decision to go back to court and I support that if he wants to see the kids more.

He isn’t enjoying it, I think that is a little unfair.

The little one is told that she only visits daddy for a short time and mummy will pick her up the next day if she likes (knowing she is here for a week). She is deliberately kept awake the night before she comes here, so she arrives with big bags under her eyes and is sobbing all day. It is all documented, but difficult to prove. There is always an excuse as to why the kids are exhausted, or outright denial.

Why did you even move in together with all this toxicity? What a shit show for your children, and confusion for his. None of the children feel secure I'm sure.

Do not marry him, do not have children together, I'd go so far to say dump him or at least live separately.

I certainly won’t be having children with him. I don’t think his children feel secure but mine aren’t really involved in this for the most part, though I realise it will probably still be affecting them. I just saw him as a victim in all of this, trying to do his best for the kids and I didn’t think that should mean he couldn’t have a good relationship. I didn’t realise how overwhelmed I would feel in reality.

I’m not sure many people would walk away from a home and life together without giving their partner an opportunity to rectify things.

This is happening to a friend of mine almost identical and she is 4 years in. This is what is happening to her now, she suffers from terrible anxiety and this has now been projected on to her child from another relationship that was bought into the toxic environment. Her partners son who is 11 is also suffering from anxiety and mental health issues due to the ex wife behaving in the same way as your partners ex. My friend also thought things would get better. They haven't and the whole family are in a real state of high anxiety and mental health issues because of it. She also says she is in too deep now to leave but quietly wishes she ran a mile when the issues were there at the beginning. Her life is not happy. Remember she is 4 years in, this could be you in another few years. Think carefully about how this is affecting you and consequently your children.

It’s his decision to go back to court and I support that if he wants to see the kids more

He is contributing to this. He has a reasonable court order that hasn't been allowed to settle down. I think all you can see is that the Ex is to blame and the accusation that she deliberately keeps the children awake at night is very odd.

Be very careful that you are not falling into a thought pattern that the Ex is all bad. This black and white thinking is highky toxic and destructive.

The ex must know he is composing evidence which is why you have this conflict. If you want harmony he has to back off, accept the court order and build trust. She can't be a bad parent if she has been through court and I guess has had z cafcass report.

His children seem traumatised by it all. Stop the conflict, accept that he has a robust court order and it will settle down. The more he looks for problems the worse it will get.

I certainly won’t be having children with him. I don’t think his children feel secure but mine aren’t really involved in this for the most part, though I realise it will probably still be affecting them. I just saw him as a victim in all of this, trying to do his best for the kids and I didn’t think that should mean he couldn’t have a good relationship. I didn’t realise how overwhelmed I would feel in reality.

He's stressed. You're stressed. All the kids are stressed. This relationship isn't working well enough to offset all of the drama, upset and instability it's bringing to you and your children. I think you should go back to dating each other for a while until his contact time is stable and settled (through court etc - whatever means necessary) and then consider if you still want to marry and live together in a year or two. I accept that all of us have baggage but you are with someone in a toxic relationship with their ex, with children and you being dragged in. Someone has to put their own kids first - let it be you.

@backseatcookers

I certainly won’t be having children with him. I don’t think his children feel secure but mine aren’t really involved in this for the most part, though I realise it will probably still be affecting them. I just saw him as a victim in all of this, trying to do his best for the kids and I didn’t think that should mean he couldn’t have a good relationship. I didn’t realise how overwhelmed I would feel in reality.

He's stressed. You're stressed. All the kids are stressed. This relationship isn't working well enough to offset all of the drama, upset and instability it's bringing to you and your children. I think you should go back to dating each other for a while until his contact time is stable and settled (through court etc - whatever means necessary) and then consider if you still want to marry and live together in a year or two. I accept that all of us have baggage but you are with someone in a toxic relationship with their ex, with children and you being dragged in. Someone has to put their own kids first - let it be you.

We live in a jointly owned property. I can't afford to move out and rent and I have about 100k of my money invested in this home that I wouldn't get back if we were to sell right now. It's very easy on the internet to say leave, or just date for a while. If I left, it would be permanent- I won't play about with people's lives like that.

But - we are generally happy! In love, affectionate, have a laugh together etc. His ex is an issue mainly when we have the kids for longer periods.

With regards to court - it's been two years and we are restricted as to holiday times so we can't take all the dc away etc. So an amendment would be good for all of us. I don't see that as a huge issue.

A previous poster suggested a Cafcass report must mean you are a good parent. The bar really is not high here! But it isn't my place to judge that. I do know that dp is a good parent and I don't see why he shouldn't be able to take the dc away for ten days somewhere or have them stay Friday to Monday alternate weekends. He can't do that at the moment.

Anyway I am not leaving him, but I expect a pile on and posters telling me I'm a bad parent. I am not a bad parent. I'm not perfect either, but none of us are. I will leave if the situation is untenable. I'm not there as it stands.

Blimey op, this is a mess for everyone concerned.
I think your own mental health won't improve until changes are made.
When I was much younger, my then partner had a child and the toxicity was evident all the time. It made me feel like i couldn't say or do the right things. We lived together for a couple of periods but in the end the atmosphere was awful.
I did not have children of my own then but could imagine how damaging that environment would have been to them.

In your shoes, postpone the wedding. Don't engage with family her about her behaviour, they seem to thrive on the drama.
Set your own deadline for when you are done with this situation.
Good luck

I think you’re being a bit naive OP. I’m a Social Worker and am often involved in private law proceedings, making recommendations about contact. I wouldn’t see your fiancé offering 40 minute calls to the children as a good thing and him being fair, I would see it as him not being able to assert boundaries with his ex and him putting her needs before his children’s - as 40 minutes is excessive and is contributing to an uncomfortable environment for the children to be in.

The 40 minute calls have only happened twice when the children were here for a week. As the order is unclear on this, he is seeking clarification from his solicitor and then will terminate the calls earlier if the solicitor advises that this is an appropriate course of action. He rang the solicitor today and she is getting back to him.

He isn’t offering the calls. They are court ordered.

Sorry to hear that you are so firmly tied to this situation. I guess that all that is left is to minimise the damage to your own children. Also speak to a legal expert and ensure that it is in all your best interests to be married to him - so that if, in a few years, you want to leave, and can get out without losing too much financially, you will not be in a worse position due to the marriage. Not that I am saying you should leave - just that this is not a good start, and is a sign that you need to be canny.

I’m wondering if I can request that my children are not referred to by name in any of the family court statements etc.
I am going to ring fence the deposit I put in to this house and ensure that I am protected financially along with my children.

If marriage is the less advisable option, good thing is that you could always blame cancelling it on Corona!

@ravenmum this is true. He is going to speak to his parents and I’ve said I won’t be willing to go ahead unless I’m happy with that. I think as long as I ringfence my deposit (I had considerably more from the sale of my home) and I am able to leave a portion of this house in my will to my children then marriage shouldn’t disadvantage me financially at all.

This is very bad for your own children and the hassle can cause permanent anxiety and stress. By all means continue seeing him but you cannot live with him until this has been sorted out. He needs to move out until he is prepared to take a very firm stance and stop this nonsense.
Your children's mental health should be your one and only concern here.
You can't see when you are in this situation how badly this affects everyone in the houseand how the stress of it brings everyones life to a halt.

We live in a jointly owned property. I can't afford to move out and rent and I have about 100k of my money invested in this home that I wouldn't get back if we were to sell right now. It's very easy on the internet to say leave, or just date for a while. If I left, it would be permanent- I won't play about with people's lives like that.

Just read this, dear God why?

We already live together in a jointly owned property. I don’t feel we are at the stage where he needs to move out; we have a lovely, happy home. All other aspects of the relationship are great. He just needs to be firm with his family - which he has said he will do and keep taking legal advice with regards to his dc. I want my dc kept out of proceedings and I’ve requested this.

Didn’t you get legal advice when you bought the house together ? How are you going to ring fence your deposit now?