Friend anxiety

[blarrr]

Hi, I have a a few friends whose children are in my DD's class at school. There is one Mum who I am around a lot, and we behave like close friends, but I'm finding the friendship very stressful and I don't know how to get away.

The problem is that both of our two children are best friends. Our sons are about to start school together in September. Over lockdown, I started to feel better and decided that I would try to meet up with a couple of other Mums over the holidays and be a bit more distant with her in September. However, she came round my house yesterday, and I feel straight back into feeling anxious. I know it's not going to work.

The trouble is that she's overly (fake) kind, and her kids make my kids stuff all the time. So I'm always in the 'grateful' position. She wants to know everything I'm doing - asking me which kids we've met up with, when I'm home/away, etc. She tells me vague info about what she's doing to hide that she's meeting up with loads of the DDs and DS classmates. Although sometimes she will choose to show off about particular connections. She sees it as a competition.

I can't make a friendship with another Mum whose kid is in my kids' class (or will also be starting in Sept), without her trying to 'take' that friend and then try to make me feel like that's her child's friend, not mine. I get left out of meet-ups. She wants me on my own, and to control who I see. She gets 'in' with everybody. It's all very high school.

She looked horrified when she found out that my DH has been meeting up with one of the Dads of a child in the September class, with children. I know she'll now be contacting the mother, and trying to make her, her friend. I went through this with my DD and now I'm going to go through it with my DS. I feel I can't escape her or make friends away from her, and as a result, I'm not looking forward to September!

Can anyone relate to this kind of situation please?

I know people are going to ask why she came round my house - she knocked on the door to give my kids cards and pictures her kids had made for them. I invited her in for a cup of tea. She came in for 20 mins. That conversation was enough to make me feel down. She's one of those toxic people that makes you feel crap.

Distance yourself. It's the only option. She sounds like a nutcase, quite frankly. You have no obligation to be friends with her.

If she knocks again tell her your going out somewhere. Try to keep your distance if you can. It's a while till September so maybe she will latch on to someone else in the meantime.
She does sound hard work though and very strange. Controlling all the situations is weird.
Hope someone has some better advice soon but keeping away from her sounds like the way to go !

Eek...that sounds very intense, and so tricky because your kids are involved, and her kids are also in service to her behaviour it seems. Distance yourself and learn to have better boundaries. I agree you are under no obligation, no matter how many cards her kids make for yours.

Thank you. It is difficult, because my kids love her kids.

I've had an idea.....

I am starting a new part-time job in September. It's only a couple of random hours a week, but I'm wondering whether I should use it as an excuse and start being like one of the busy Mums who show up in work gear, drop/grab their kids and run off! Even on days when I don't work, I could use the work excuse?

The downside is that it would also limit my interaction with the other Mums. I'd have to find other ways to chat with them. However, it would give me a way to ease myself out of interactions with her and dilute the friendship, with a 'legitimate' excuse that won't make her feel I'm pulling away.

I really don't know what else to do. She watches my every move and everyone I speak to.

What do you think?

You don’t have to chat to the other mums? In fact you don’t need to be friends with any school mums.......

Take a step back, your children are there to learn.

Hi Agnes, I know, except I'm not from this area originally and I work from home / SAHM so I don't meet or know other people. I do have some other good friends at school, who do not make me feel like this (obviously this friend is friend's with them also). I do want some friends in my life!

I understand but I would say find hobbies away from your child’s school as a way of making friends. It gets messy....as you’ve seen! It’ll also stop it from getting too intense!

Can completely relate. Not to this exact scenario but general anxiety of school mum friendships, so much politics and game playing, Some are constantly jostling for ‘pole position‘ and it’s exhausting if you just want your kids to hang out with their buddies and maybe you get thr odd friendly coffee or catch up along the way.
The only answer is to refuse to engage in games- keep arrangements with the apex predators to simple drop off play dates, don’t be emotionally manipulated by gifts conveying fake sentiment, with mums who are more normal just arrange to see them when and how you want and if the crazy mum wants to do one upmanship in the background let her- your normal mums will see what you see sooner or later.
Good luck! I need to take this advice myself to be honest!

Working part-time will give you the opportunity to widen your social circle as well, tho. Take every opportunity to look outside of the school run for potential friends.

I would distance yourself from her and be pleasant but just as vague as she is when conversing - just move on from her with "oh I meant to speak to the teacher, catch you later.." or "got a thing, gotta run" or "just need to say something to [x]". Don't tell her about your life. Why are you telling her things, you're not obliged to give chapter and verse?

I've never understood the school mum thing, I'm one of those busy working mums that drop and run so never got involved with any of this stuff.
I made friends through running groups, separate from kids. Could you try that?

She sounds creepy and draining, and like she's determined to Wendy you.

Thank you for all of the feedback and advice above.
Starskey80 - Yes it feels like she's always trying to Wendy me! It's hard to know how to make friends elsewhere. I was on a volunteer group locally - and it ended up being full of school Mums!

Category - I'm trying really hard not to tell her things. She asks direct questions that are hard to avoid though. She's quite sneaky with it. I'd avoided a question on text asking me when I was going away over the Summer hols, but yesterday she asked my husband when she saw him on the drive. Then she declared that she: "Knows when we are going away." I know it's because she'll organise meet-ups that she can brag to me about when I return.

Her DD also copies my DD all the time - hobbies, clothes, shoes, etc. I'll buy my child school shoes and hers will turn up in the same pair two days later. My child had a fringe cut in, then hers did that week. She also bosses my DD about quite a bit. I'm not keen on them being so close friends, but my DD seems to choose her a lot and they have a good rapport, when it's going well.

Hi, Just giving an update.

So, I was determined to be slightly more aloof and not accept 1:1 meet-ups. However, she sent me a message offering to have my children at her house whilst we pack to go on holiday. I kindly declined and said that we were not packing until the weekend, as not going away until the Monday.

However, it was like she would not take no for an answer. She then sent further messages on the same day with more offers - like to take my kids over the weekend so that I could go out for a meal with my husband, and offering to come pick them up and take them back.
she was determined to find a way for them to come round.

In the end, I agreed, as to keep turning her down would have looked like I was being 'off' in the face of her generosity and efforts to find a way to make it work. I insisted on taking and picking the kids up myself. She does these lovely gestures that then makes you feel you've got to repay the offer in some way.

I also feel there is an undertone to this - it's almost like there is a passive-aggressive threat, that if I don't remain close to her family and accept offers then I'm making it clear that I'm pulling away and there will be some consequence (as there often is). I won't be invited to the group-meet-ups she constantly engineers, and she will talk about me behind my back, etc.

The only way forward I can see is to withdraw myself and accept that I may be ostracised from a wider group of friendships, as all of our friendships are connected.

I am actually stressed just reading this - poor you.

You need support (what does DH say?) and strength to get through this. I think you need to Grey Rock her. Anything else is going to fan the flames of whatever the he’ll her deal is.

And bin school mum friendships this term. Arrive and drop and head to work.

I think it's a good idea to remember that you are not obliged to look at your phone. You are not obliged to have it near you or to even read messages if you've seen they have come in. That is your choice. She cannot object if you say you didn't see a message in time. How could she? That would be her trying to control when and how often you looked at your phone, her trying to control how you arrange your life and activities. She would look unhinged if she got annoyed when you say; "So sorry, didnt see your message in time, work was hectic, anyhow we couldn't have made that but thanks for asking."

Yes you're right, I thought that by turning her down it would solve the matter. I thought that was me being assertive and stopping the meet-up! I was expecting her to keep offering stuff in a desperate way. Next time I will try not replying for a while!

You should not have given in to her. Get your boundaries right back up.

Your anxiety is your emotional alarm screaming at you that she is manipulative and dangerous but your misplaced politeness will get you stung.

She sounds unhinged and socially triggered. There is always one in every year. Stand well back and once you do you will see the others rolling their eyes and swerving her.

It doesn’t matter if she doesn’t take “No” for an answer. After the 2nd “No” - you don’t repeat yourself - and don’t respond to her texts. Have a long list of vague statements to bat her away. Never give detail as this is info that gives her an “in” that she can dig through.

It’s a loooong road through primary school. Sit back and watch for a bit. Do not invest and hitch your emotional life and friendships too deeply with school gate stuff. It can be v toxic and competitive. Proceed with caution and find friends elsewhere.

*was not expecting

Agree with others - grey rock and fade. Put your phone to VM. Don’t open her texts for at least 6hrs and then reply 6 hrs after that. “Sorry, I’m busy” on repeat. If she asks doing what don’t reply for 6hrs and say “Just stuff”. You owe her nothing.

Sssslou - Thank you for you advice xxx I need must do all of this this term. I think having a job will help.
Some of the others are starting to notice things, but to be honest, it took me a long time to realise it - I've known her for 5 years and only started noticing the last year or so. She comes across as a meek, mild, generous, kind person (butter would not melt). It takes a while to see the manipulation.

That’s fine - don’t put yourself down for not spotting that she is a v good actor / highly skilled manipulator sooner. You have now though so just keep calm and have your rule book ready to anticipate her moves and bat her right back. It can be exhausting in the early days. But never, ever explain or justify anything to her because she will exploit it and go off like a rocket. She is not normal or emotionally regulated. Know that - don’t give her any fuel that she can spin.

I dint have children, but yes, I can relate, but I definitely wouldn't call a person like that a friend.......more like a woman who comes over to my house.

She sees it as a competition.

I can't make a friendship with another Mum whose kid is in my kids' class (or will also be starting in Sept), without her trying to 'take' that friend and then try to make me feel like that's her child's friend, not mine. I get left out of meet-ups. She wants me on my own, and to control who I see. She gets 'in' with everybody. It's all very high school.

No wonder you are anxious around her. It's very uncomfortable being around anxious, competitive people and you are feeling that. They can be quite nosey,as you've found out.

I'm usually quite straight with people, but with people like this it's incredibly difficult. They make it difficult. She knows that you are polite and takes full advantage of that and knows she can manipulate it.

I also feel there is an undertone to this - it's almost like there is a passive-aggressive threat, that if I don't remain close to her family and accept offers then I'm making it clear that I'm pulling away and there will be some consequence (as there often is). I won't be invited to the group-meet-ups she constantly engineers, and she will talk about me behind my back, etc

You are absolutely spot-on there. I can bet that if you confront her outright and say what's on her mind, she will behave like a bird with an injured wing and will then go on to lie or infer nasty things about you behind your back as punishment. It's a really difficult situation and I've had similar things done to me. These type of people are masters at appearing to be the victim to others, and most people will fall for it because most people, in my experience, do not look into these situations in great depth.

The only thing you can do is be a blank wall and maintain distance. You should not be at her beck & call for fear that she has power over friendship groups. Quite frankly, if they are fool enough to fall for her nonesense then do you really want them as friends? Mind you, they might actually have the same opinion of her as you but are not saying anything for various reasons.

They are like a quiet, persistent, manipulative sales people - if you say no, she will as why. DON'T enter into that dialogue. Her sole reason for asking is so she can break down your barriers. If she wants to sit down and have a chat in your house, say your busy. She will no doubt ask why so she can break you down, and it will be super awkward, but say 'I'm busy' in a super breezy way again. You shouldn't have to explain why, she should just accept that you are unavailable and that is that.

She comes across as a meek, mild, generous, kind person (butter would not melt). It takes a while to see the manipulation.

I KNEW IT!!!! Noooooooo!!! Avoid avoid avoid!!!!!! These people are so toxic that I was inspired to do a podcast a short while ago about them! They are wolves in sheep's clothing!!!!!!

you're*

@Sssloou

Agree with others - grey rock and fade. Put your phone to VM. Don’t open her texts for at least 6hrs and then reply 6 hrs after that. “Sorry, I’m busy” on repeat. If she asks doing what don’t reply for 6hrs and say “Just stuff”. You owe her nothing.

Agreed......except you said in a much shorter time than I did!