Friend anxiety

[blarrr]

Hi, I have a a few friends whose children are in my DD's class at school. There is one Mum who I am around a lot, and we behave like close friends, but I'm finding the friendship very stressful and I don't know how to get away.

The problem is that both of our two children are best friends. Our sons are about to start school together in September. Over lockdown, I started to feel better and decided that I would try to meet up with a couple of other Mums over the holidays and be a bit more distant with her in September. However, she came round my house yesterday, and I feel straight back into feeling anxious. I know it's not going to work.

The trouble is that she's overly (fake) kind, and her kids make my kids stuff all the time. So I'm always in the 'grateful' position. She wants to know everything I'm doing - asking me which kids we've met up with, when I'm home/away, etc. She tells me vague info about what she's doing to hide that she's meeting up with loads of the DDs and DS classmates. Although sometimes she will choose to show off about particular connections. She sees it as a competition.

I can't make a friendship with another Mum whose kid is in my kids' class (or will also be starting in Sept), without her trying to 'take' that friend and then try to make me feel like that's her child's friend, not mine. I get left out of meet-ups. She wants me on my own, and to control who I see. She gets 'in' with everybody. It's all very high school.

She looked horrified when she found out that my DH has been meeting up with one of the Dads of a child in the September class, with children. I know she'll now be contacting the mother, and trying to make her, her friend. I went through this with my DD and now I'm going to go through it with my DS. I feel I can't escape her or make friends away from her, and as a result, I'm not looking forward to September!

Can anyone relate to this kind of situation please?

Great advice above.
Also once you say "No thanks, that doesn't suit us today" etc...let that be it.

You have said NO.

If she comes back with other options, do NOT reply.
You answered No.
The worst thing you can do is get into a discussion.

Also, if you back away, do not get into a discussion.
You are busy with your work. End of.

If you need to back away for a bit from the other Mum's do.

I think you need to strongly encourage other friendships going forward.

It sounds really awful.
She sounds poisonous.
You will have to be equally ruthless unfortunately.

I distance myself from people like this and keep in touch privately with those I genuinely like. If I come across them in the playground I turn the conversation to weather, Donald trump, Brexit or anything else impersonal until the kids come out and we are naturally interrupted. She sounds awful!

@Wondersense That's very insightful, yes, you're exactly right. It's all very sneaky, so there is nothing you can actually say to anyone to explain how their behaviour is an issue. Isolated incidents sound like nothing, but when you take all of the little actions together, it forms a picture. These days, I feel shitty after every interaction with her. It's like being bullied, but you've no real evidence. They could talk they way out of it all.

It is like bullying OP, even though that may sound dramatic to some.

She has an agenda.
She could care less about you.

This will never improve.

So you need to extract yourself asap.

Explain it to your children gently, but firmly, that they need to play with other children too.
I would stick to play dates at the weekend with other children rather than after school for a while.

Avoid her, but don't be surprised if things escalate.
She sounds quietly deranged and will probably go quietly.

Do not get into any sort of discussion with her as she will just use it against.

Keep calm, keep repeating you are busy and get away from her.

If she calls to your house do not allow her in. "It isn't a good time".

Remain smiling and pleasant with other parents.
Hopefully they will see through any of her negativity.

Down the line you may get the chance is quizzed that she was "relentless/suffocating" and you were "simply too busy with work etc".

Good luck OP.

*won't go quietly!

In the end, I agreed,

These days, I feel shitty after every interaction with her.

Absolutely, you will feel much better after every interaction if you really take on board the excellent advice here and get your barriers up again. Could you treat it as a game? You win when you give away nothing that she can latch onto. You will feel less battered by her too.

Vagueness is your friend, don't read her message, only ever reply after the event. It's not a good time, sorry got to rush etc as everyone has said upthread

If she doesn't get anything from you she is much more likely to fade away.

Having "known" her for five years, once you are seen to successfully brush her off you might find other friends emerge from that same group. Enjoy.

Thank you Billy1966 - I agree. I also think I need to carefully pull out of the friendship without her realising I'm purposefully doing it, by blaming other things, if that's possible. I feel she is over-focused on me at the moment, and I really need her to find someone or something else to focus on! (although not nice for that person in the long run, obviously).

FinallyHere - Yes I'm going to have to be very careful about what I say. I'm usually quite an open person so it doesn't come naturally. She actually leaves awkward silences that I often feel I have to fill as well.

When she messaged me to offer to have my kids on the Friday, I should not have told her I wasn't leaving until Monday, because it opened the door for her to then offer Saturday or Sunday. It feels so unnatural for me to be more closed with my conversation though!

She actually leaves awkward silences that I often feel I have to fill as well.

It's just a technique. Now that you have spotted her, you will be better prepared to avoid her clutches in future.

I am sorry to say that she has preyed on you exactly because you are a lovely. kind and generous person. Now that you are aware of the way she works, prove to yourself that you simply will not get caught again.

She really does not deserve your attention. Lots of others might , but this one does not.

Hi op, can you try and work on how you speak to her? Ie not disclose so much and answer her questions with another question so you make her talk more. Personally I would not bother explaining myself why I am busy. She sounds toxic and that is a good enough excuse to distance yourself from her. Pay more attention at what she does to make you say so much without her giving too much detail about what she does. I do think that is a skill. But you can learn how to beat her at her own game. Good luck!

Thank you all. Today we were all waiting in a queue at the school gates - first day for our little ones. When my DS started talking a lot about the Mum's son, who was somewhere else in the queue. I could see that the woman in front felt threatened that we were close to the Mum, as she started talking a lot about the Mum, trying to show me that they were close friends, and telling son to seek out her son. Obviously they've been meeting up in the holidays.

This is what the mum does - she meets up with people on an individual basis and showers them (love bombing!) with kindness, helpfulness, playdates, thoughtfulness and generosity. So each individual starts thinking that they have a special close friendship with her. In reality, she is doing the same to lots of people, separately. So when an individual realises that there is another Mum who is very close to her, it comes as a shock, and they feel anxious and slightly competitive about it. I've seen this happen time and time again with her. I always seem to end up in a little triangle with her. Whoever I befriend, she befriends them and tried to play us off against each other, as if we are competing to be her friend.

This time I just smiled, and thought, thank God - you are welcome to her! I'm not playing the game or being part of these friendship triangles anymore.

Thank you for all of your advice!

Well done to you.

You have dropped the rope.

That’s a relief. You have stepped back and up and can see what’s happening.

Hope first day at school was wonderful. Don’t let the antics of some loon, pollute these precious, finite golden days with your little ones.

Well done and if anyone does ask are ye very good friends...deny, deny, and just say she is just one of the mum's in the class, not close at all. The children play together sometimes.

Put as much determined distance between you, with a glint in your eye, but not a word out of your mouth besides "busy, busy".

Best of luck. Keep us posted

Good to hear, well done.

I really don't understand this. Your children are friends - doesn't mean you have to be. She meets other mums when you're away on holiday - so what? If she doesn't invite you to social events, organise some of your own and invite her or not as you please. Life doesn't need to be this complicated and you don't need to give a woman you dislike any control over your life. Queen bees can't queen it if you've opted out of the monarchy!

You all sound a very silly bunch of women. I don't know anyone like this in real life and never have.

Op you have to make yourself unavailable. She's probably done this to other people. It sounds like she can't have more than one friend at a time.

Just start saying 'No' She will get the message eventually

Katy1213 not sure why you felt the need to just insult the whole group, how strange. I have just read the whole thread and thought most posters have some very good advice. OP: it sounds like you have already started to disassociate yourself from this woma which is good! Last September I was new to the whole school thing, I made an effort to be friendly to the other mums yet some of them would be so friendly one day and then walk past me in the street and ignore me the next, it bothered me for a while, until one of my real friends who is a teacher said to me don’t get involved with the school mum friendship groups cos you will get dragged into all sorts. My sister who has older kids told me the same, so I’ve followed that advice ever since. One mum who always arranged the “social“ events was at the summer fayre last year and she sort of ignored me a bit and made a big deal of the woman next to me, saying things like “I haven’t seen you for ages!” and very OTT like they were best mates, but what she didn’t know was the woman sat next to me was my sister in law. After this woman left I said to my sister in law “ I didnt realise you knew her so well?” and she said to me “I’ve only ever spoken to her once before”’ We laughed and I just thought how High School is this! Ridiculous! Anyway I am glad you got some good advice from mums net! x

I agree to be v cautious with the school gate dynamics. There is only ever one dynamic underneath all of the froth and it the social positioning (ie on top tier) of their child. You will be of interest if they can extract something from you for their family / child’s benefit. It can all be v visceral competitive. Sit back with other laid back types with a bag of popcorn and watch the social climbing pantomime. If you haven’t seen the comedy “Motherhood” (BBC written by Sharon Horgan) it’s v well observed - all the main players beautifully cast!

It IS very high school, and I get it that it could sound pretty ridiculous if you've not been through this or been friends with someone who is controlling and competitive over friendships. It's a pattern of toxic behaviour over time - lots of little comments and actions. I actually have a lot of friends, but most of them know this woman (she won't let me be friendly with someone else without 'getting in there'). I don't feel like this about any of my other friends, but this woman is giving me huge anxiety.

So second week into school - I hardly actually saw her for the first week because she parked around the corner. I'm anxious every day in case I see her, so was pleased. Then today she pulls up as I'm coming out of a friend's house, as I was returning something I'd borrowed from her. The look on the woman's face.....! She did not like it that I had been speaking to this friend.

Worse, we ended up leaving the woman behind to sort out her youngest child, who was causing a fuss, and walking towards to the school together without her. I felt a lot of anxiety, because I know this would have made her cross.

Later at pickup today, I see the woman's car on that friends' drive (doesn't usually park there). They walk in together. I walk past them when I am in the queue and she looks really uncomfortable. I feel like she's probably bitching about me. Every time I talk to anyone, later that day she will be with that person - arranging playdates. She feels so threatened by me talking to, or doing something with someone else. I feel watched, monitored and trapped.

So I'm thinking - don't let her make me feel competitive. I don't need to compete back. I just need to get on with my life and hope she loses interest.

Yes - watched Motherhood! Brilliant!

Well done.
Continue to avoid and be busy.

Be prepared that she may land up on your door so be prepared to say "no it doesn't suit, I'm busy." On a loop.
Prepare your children too, not to ask for hers to come in to play.

Don't worry about her bitching.
That is who she is.
Others will see that too.

Best of luck.

Ugh, sounds so toxic and relentless. It may be small comfort but she clearly admires and feels inferior to you, as she seems terrified that anyone you befriend will prefer you to her.

Good luck with mentally and physically distancing yourself. It sounds like the only way. She really needs to get a life! Imagine how exhausting it must be inside her head!

She sounds unhinged and fixated on you. Your senses are accurate and valid.

You can’t change her but need to be careful not to let her get under your skin and absorb her craziness or you might react as irrationally as she does.

Maybe a strategy of low profile - so she thinks she has “won” the title of school gate queen bee might be a way to go. Let her run her self ragged until Xmas where she will burn bridges all on her own and you can pick up with others then.

She sounds exhausting and dangerous - you need to keep calm, confident, detached, indifferent all of the time. Never get drawn in anything - you never have to justify, explain or defend any decisions - never give detail. Just - No thanks. No that doesn’t work for me. No we are busy.

It seems that you have already made some progress - just keep inching away.

You might also want to consider that you are already monitoring and projecting thoughts onto her. You can't know what she thought when she saw you with that other Mum as you are not a mind reader. Back off and look at your own role in this if you feel brave.

There are emotionally manipulative people out there OP who do just enough to unsettle and confuse you but are under the radar enough that you can’t call them out on individual acts as it seems petty.

But it is really important to put together the list of “odd” interactions and behaviours so that we can see the consolidation and totality.

In your case you have done this now so that you become hyper vigilant to her actions. That’s enough emotional triggering to know this person needs swerving - you don’t need to work them out - it’s enough that you feel confused and unsettled by their actions.