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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help me understand .. controlling?

81 replies

Totem50 · 26/07/2020 01:16

I've become increasing unhappy in a 4 year marriage with DW, although we've been together over 4. Its been sexless for a while and I'm trying to get to the bottom of some of the underlying issues.

I'm wondering whether I've allowed a parent-child dynamic to evolve and over the past year I've been getting therapy to improve my assertiveness. But I'm just wondering whether no matter how much I change.. I can only change how I react to a situation.

Having dinner my DW asks if I wanted an drink. I said yes, and asked if I could have it in a specific glass - a cut glass one. I explained I was going to have an alcoholic drink after so I wanted a nicer glass and that I would just use the same glass for both drinks. She brings the drink in a standard cheap glass. So trying to be more assertive I stand up and go and replace it. I explain and say that's not what I wanted. That then begins a tirade of criticism... she becomes aggressive saying she doesnt like me using those glasses as you have to wash them up by hand... I'm just being awkward etc

Its petty and minor I know. But I'm wondering if it defines a dynamic in our relationship. In the space of an hour I was criticised for three separate things..

I really dont understand why she was so controlling over what glass I used. It didnt affect her, I do the washing up anyway. Can someone please help me understand this...

OP posts:
Elieza · 26/07/2020 11:30

I think there is A LOT more to this than you are letting on.

  1. I think your upbringing has left you a bit cold and emotionless. It wasn’t your fault but that’s what those places do. And if it was all boys it can make you a bit weird in the way you deal with women. I know, my relatives went to one. Now look down on women.

  2. You both work hard. That’s tiring.

  3. Being tired combined with being stressed and dealing with a cold fish of a husband will not put a woman in the mood for sex. You whinging on about it will not help.

  4. Combine that with your wife dealing with the illness and subsequent loss of a parent and probably needing bereavement counselling (which she may not yet have tried for various reasons) and she will defo not be up for sex.

  5. You seem to be old fashioned in as much as she’s cooking the dinners and doing the dishes (she complained about the hand washing of crystal glasses) Yet later you say it’s you that washes. I’m not sure of what to believe here. I get the feeling you are bending the truth to make yourself out to be nicer than what you are to her and wonder if you just sit on your arse demanding your dinner and alcohol in a crystal glass while she’s running about knackered and dead inside from the loss of her darling parent. Get off your arse and get your own glass you lazy git!

  6. If you can’t be a more caring and considerate person and pull your weight she should leave you. Or you leave her.

  7. in my experience men will put up with anything if they are getting sex regularly. Rather than leave. If she was having sex with you you’d probably put up with everything else. Instead of trying to improve things.

Get counselling for sure if you want to stay together (not convinced you shouldn’t split up). BOTH of you so she can tell her side. I think you spin things in your favour so they counsellor will take your side. Sorry OP. Telling it as I see it.

billy1966 · 26/07/2020 12:07

OP,
You clearly are NOT happy and haven't been for a while.

Thankfully you don't have children to consider.

Continue with your counselling and make plans to separate.

Ye are both young enough to find partners that will make you both happier.

Do not waste 5 years trying to fix the un-fixable.

Best of luck.Flowers

Totem50 · 26/07/2020 12:13

I'm definitely not distorting the truth. I cooked the dinner btw, as I do most the time. I enjoy cooking, and I feel it's a way of showing that I care by trying new dishes or cooking something she likes.

And as I have been very clear in previous posts, when she brought the "wrong" glass i just said oh, and went and got it myself. I'm not lazy and I definitely dont expect her to wait hand and foot on me. I was taught by my parents to work hard, I've worked hard at everything I do for the whole of my life.

The bit I dont understand is why she made it into an argument. And why she felt the need to not do something very small that I asked. She complained about the hand washing but she knows that I would wash the dishes anyway.... it just felt like I'm not allowed to use something I enjoy

OP posts:
namechange12a · 26/07/2020 12:20

It's called Passive Aggression OP and god help anyone who has to deal with one. Passive aggression is indirect aggression. It sounds as though what she actually wanted to do was break the glass over your head - that would be direct aggression. Passive Aggression is where someone harbours a lot of anger towards you that they aren't expressing directly.

That's why she didn't get you the glass. She sounds very resentful and things in a relationship usually get to that point when the other person doesn't feel as though talking is going to get anywhere.

hustler2020 · 26/07/2020 12:29

you're not a child to be “allowed” to do anything
& you dont have to justify yourself to anyone but yourself

Bunnymumy · 26/07/2020 12:39

Have you read up on narcissistic pd. Because she totally sounds like a covert narcissist. Some of those are intent on making every convo a chore. And constantly creating arguments and nitpicking every little thing you do (basically theres their way or its wrong) I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned already. Maybe because the women of mumsnet expect the man to be the narcissist but it's actually a good 50/50 split in my experience. There are a lot of female narcissists out there too who are just as horrid.

I would suggest getting out now. Certainly don't have kids with her. You don't have kids to 'fix' marriages. It's only been 4 years, walk away before it's 40. She isn't happy with you and you arent happy with her. Go.

BertiesLanding · 26/07/2020 12:56

Oh dear.

OP, you are getting a very typical stance from many if not most of the posters here: the fact that you're a man means that, of course, your wife needs to be given the benefit of the doubt, and of course the fault lies with you and what you're doing/not doing.

Actually, I think that's bullshit.

I think your wife is controlling. She sounds thoroughly mired in her own psychological problems, and soul-sucking to be around.

You tolerate this because your relationship blueprint is a difficult one involving abandonment and avoidance on the part of your parents. This is what you know; this is what you unconsciously chose; and this is what you're getting.

And now you're getting the same kind of crap here, which is unconscionable.

Stay with your therapy. One day, you may realise that you need to get out, and that you can - and that your wife and her issues (with herself, with you) are no longer yours to deal with.

Flowers
LannieDuck · 26/07/2020 13:05

I agree that there's something weird going on with the housework here.

The nagging makes me feel small and inferior. I told her a while back and she admitted it was a problem and said she would be less naggy

'Nagging' is a horrible word that usually means the woman is repeatedly having to ask the man to do his fair share.

...but you say you do 70% of it. So what's she nagging you about? Or does she think you don't do enough (i.e. she thinks you actually do much less than 50%?)

"I do it every week so if you're not happy with what I buy then do it yourself". She then replies that "you've literally done it one week".. but I know I havent.

You seem to have different perceptions of how often you do the food shopping. Why does she think you've only done it for one week? Is she making it up?

she doesnt like me using those glasses as you have to wash them up by hand

This would only be an issue if she was going to need to wash them up. But you claim you were. So why was she concerned about the washing?

Yea I've told her we need to go to counselling. But months have gone by and nothing has happened. Because I do a lot of the house admin I had hoped she would have picked it up

You mentioned something that required work and just assumed she would do it. Presumably she assumed you would because it fell within the 'admin' category that is yours to sort out. Why didn't the two of you have a conversation about it.

...are you sure you do 70% of the housework? A lot can be invisible, so maybe you don't realise. Or perhaps it's the other way around - maybe she hasn't realised how much you do.

You're a scientist, so why can I suggest turning this into a quantitative exercise? Sit down with her and both write lists of the jobs you do. You could even assign an approximate duration and effort rating ;)

pppp0p0p777 · 26/07/2020 13:21

TBH when I saw the bit about boarding school at a young age I did think OH GOD NO. I mean feel free to put me right here, but even the nicest of them aren't really places where kids can safely be vulnerable, cry about stuff, go be cuddled by Mum and Dad, have pets to be devoted to, have grandparents or aunties to pop round the corner to, they're more like a junior version of working away on a business trip for long periods of time.

You say you're having individual therapy and thank heavens really, but how are you when it comes to being intimate and vulnerable with people, cherishing and nurturing them? Because that's what parents have to do.

Read up about the ghastly experiment where baby monkeys had to choose between wood-monkey-mum-with-milk and cuddly-fake-monkey-mum-without-milk - they went for the cuddles. The #1 thing that makes parents parents is that they're the one the kid goes to howling for a kiss and a cuddle when they've fallen over. You want kids - to be a good Dad you're going to have to do that.

You say you show love in practical ways and being willing to get stuck in is certainly a positive trait. Nobody is saying stop that :D

But do you think your wife also had a regimented childhood and married you because at the time you were as, um, emotionally limited as she was?

I'm probably projecting like crazy, to be frank, but my Dad had a boarding school-and-wicked-uncles loveless childhood so he internalised that good behaviour and "doing well in life" and "fitting in" were important and he literally, quite literally, had no idea what a loving family life was like. Not his fault, he'd never seen it done. He ..sort of...loved his dogs because his housemaster had dogs so he had seen how that worked!

My Mum left him when she realized that he didn't really understand that there was more to marriage than paying the mortgage and not sleeping around, and he then married someone who'd had a no-good type for her first husband, and so presumably valued his stability, though given that they then bickered (in JUST the way you describe in the 'glass' incident) FOR THE FIFTY YEARS OF THEIR MARRIAGE does make me wonder - well - just why? - it seems rude to ask and I'm sure if I did I would just get "I don't know what you mean".

We normally see the "one partner changes and the other doesn't" problem with weight loss, fitness, drinking, or work & finances, but emotional growth is certainly a thing where couples can grow apart too.

Here's something to try. If you were watching your life together with the sound turned off... what do you see?
Language is a relatively modern arrival in our mammalian evolution and we're quite good at saying things that aren't entirely true, but we are mostly still crap at disguising our facial expressions and body language. She may say XYZ, you may say ABC but in silent movie mode what do things look like?

I'm not saying be a dick to her. She's a fellow human being, however things play out, and deserves consideration as we all do. But just live your best life (oh and just get on and book the joint counselling and be very willing to listen to her and think about what you hear) and whether the marriage survives or you end up as friends (basically it sounds like you're slightly grumpy housemates right now) or as ex-acquaintances ... will come out in the wash as a side effect of living that good life. Make friends. Make plans. Go places. Do stuff. Think about what you'd do if you had just 10 years to live.

Oh and if you make friends with happy relationships - get them round for dinner if you can - there's nothing like a good role model for inspiring people to change.

And if you never had a pet - you are a grown up ... you can have one now if you like - even something like a hamster can teach you a huge amount about caring, life, love, sickness and old age, stuff that will stand you in good stead with your human relationships. Just a thought.

Anyway good luck OP, you're doing the right thing trying to break out of the current pattern for a start.

Geppili · 26/07/2020 14:18

Totem book the therapy and present it to her.

Geppili · 26/07/2020 14:31

Also read the five languages of love.

nolovelost · 26/07/2020 16:06

If the wine had already been poured and you had to change it then that's just ridiculous. If you're like this with other things then I can see why you annoy her and she thinks you're controlling.

Totem50 · 26/07/2020 19:22

Just regarding the last post... what wine?? Please read the situation. Its pretty simple, I asked for a specific glass (empty) and she brought a different one. I get up a d change it to which she gets annoyed and pissed with me. What am I controlling?

There is a lot to take in here and I will reply in time. Two things stick out. 1. If there was the relationship with no sound, then people would see little affection. I'm really struggling to show affection... it sounds so bad I know. But I dont feel it.

And ... selfishly... If I was told by a doctor tomorrow i had exactly ten years left to live, i would split and prefer to spend that time doing more things for me I guess.

OP posts:
BarbedBloom · 26/07/2020 19:32

There are some weird posts here that seem determined to spin some reason why the wife isn't the unreasonable one.

OP, the truth is it sounds like neither of you are happy anymore. I wouldn't remain in a sexless marriage, especially where one or both of you get so worked up over minor things. Yes you could say that if the counselling is important to you, then you should book it, but equally it doesn't sound like she is that fussed about sorting things.

I don't see there being very much here to save

nolovelost · 26/07/2020 19:35

"she brings the drink in a standard cheap glass"

nolovelost · 26/07/2020 19:39

OK not wine, you say alcoholic drink, my apologies. My comment still stands though!

Shizzlestix · 26/07/2020 19:55

The glass is just a symbol of your relationship going wrong. Me and my DH have favourite glasses, he wouldn’t use the wrong one when getting me a drink because he knows which one I like for whatever drink, same for me, I’d use the glass I know he likes.

Reading everything, @Totem50, I don’t think you can save this marriage. She’s refusing to engage with you and getting annoyed at minor things.

nolovelost · 26/07/2020 20:13

What else annoys her? I'm trying to work out if you're a nit picker in general or you have good reason to be like that. You seemed to enjoy picking apart my post when I mentioned wine.

Geppili · 26/07/2020 20:26

Have you had a diagnosis op?

Geppili · 26/07/2020 20:29

Sorry ignore me too little sleep!

Totem50 · 26/07/2020 22:44

It's small things like ... driving and she will start shouting saying you're too close your too close on the left hand side. (Never crashed in my life). Clean the house and then if I raise a point that I'm doing more than my fair share then the response will be simply that I'm too slow... it just eats away at me.

I've said I've had enough over the past two months and now I can see her saying "well done" but it just feels patronising. Life shouldn't be this hard right !!

OP posts:
monkeymonkey2010 · 26/07/2020 22:58

Sounds to me like she's got you 'pussy whipped'.....which basically means she clicks her fingers and gets you to jump through hoops to keep her 'happy'.....an endless list that you will never 'satisfy' by the way.
People like her need to always have something to 'hold over' you.

It sounds to me like she regularly - almost constantly - has a 'reason' to verbally abuse you.....you can bet your last penny if you treated her in the same manner you would be called an abuser.....

Thank God you don't have any kids! Cos you can bet she'd use children as another excuse to harass and abuse you.

I think she enjoys the monied lifestyle - it's all about her and she's running rings around you.

How much longer do you want to play the clown in her circus?????

Sunshineonrainydays · 26/07/2020 23:16

OP - This is no way to live for either of you.
Leave her (she sounds controlling).
Move on.
Life is too short.
Flowers

Quartz2208 · 27/07/2020 09:17

OP you sound deeply unhappy and that staying is causing your mental and physical health to suffer.

Leave

getsomehelp · 27/07/2020 09:23

Does she do all the housework? Maybe she is fed up with doing everything?
You could have said, "Don't worry i'll wash the glass", or you could have got up & got your own drink. It sounds to me that she is thoroughly fed up.
Do not have children together, IMO your marriage isn't going to survive