Help me understand .. controlling?

[Totem50]

I've become increasing unhappy in a 4 year marriage with DW, although we've been together over 4. Its been sexless for a while and I'm trying to get to the bottom of some of the underlying issues.

I'm wondering whether I've allowed a parent-child dynamic to evolve and over the past year I've been getting therapy to improve my assertiveness. But I'm just wondering whether no matter how much I change.. I can only change how I react to a situation.

Having dinner my DW asks if I wanted an drink. I said yes, and asked if I could have it in a specific glass - a cut glass one. I explained I was going to have an alcoholic drink after so I wanted a nicer glass and that I would just use the same glass for both drinks. She brings the drink in a standard cheap glass. So trying to be more assertive I stand up and go and replace it. I explain and say that's not what I wanted. That then begins a tirade of criticism... she becomes aggressive saying she doesnt like me using those glasses as you have to wash them up by hand... I'm just being awkward etc

Its petty and minor I know. But I'm wondering if it defines a dynamic in our relationship. In the space of an hour I was criticised for three separate things..

I really dont understand why she was so controlling over what glass I used. It didnt affect her, I do the washing up anyway. Can someone please help me understand this...

"Now the relationship is strained she wants them before it's too late" I find this really striking. A baby would put much more strain on your relationship! A baby cannot fix a marriage. Would she give up her career for a baby? What is the balance of power in your relationship? Who earns more? Who takes a final decision? Don't get pregnant until you have sorted this out! Don't let her standards of what a normal marriage is dictate yours.

I keep thinking she must be an accountant for some reason.

She is in a sort of paralysis. Maybe she is controlling of the house shit because that gives her a 'sense' of control over her mixed up emotions, grief, resentment and fear. Go private if you can. I have done it and it really helped my marriage for the better. It can feel safer having a witness. Night

I'm really sorry to hear that.

No we havent had any quality time together for a long time. I'm just so frustrated. She wont get help, she thinks that not having sex is normal for people under 40 and she has become very critical. Not just of me, of politicians, our neughbours etc. She is quite hard and if someone is having a bad time she will often say they just need to get themselves sorted and learn to cope.

Let's be fair... I dont think we both fancy each other anymore. She says she loves me, I'm really struggling to feel it right now

Yeah that's not normal at all no sex in marriage in forties. It does sound joyless and you sound like a decent man. Is she very materialistic? Is her reluctance to go to therapy and then possibly separate linked to her attachment to the house, the lifestyle? I mean I have v low libido, but I make damned sure I talk about it with my husband and tell him I reeaaaly fancy him, and try to be as warm as possible with him. He's really understanding and that kindness usually connects us for the better. She doesn't sound very tender or kind. Especially her attitude to getting pregnant.

Ironically I'd be happy giving her the house - my mental and physical health has deteriorated with the stress. I dont care anymore.. but I'm scared and wonder whether walking away is correct. She would be devastated I think.

We are both successful financially. Shes not an accountant as such but similar.. more senior management. It's not menopausal as we are only just getting to late 30s. I'm physically attractive .. I work hard to keep fit and look good. I will get flak for this but she struggles to stay fit. I support her, I try to get us to be healthier but I never pressure her. I love her for who she is, and I will love her till the day the bury me in the ground.

Totem, rest. Tomorrow will be a new day.

all I can think is that she is disappointed with other aspects of the relationship and so it's more of a venting rather than controlling

I think this could be the case. When a couple are not emotionally close then it is easier to find fault and bicker.

Your childhood sounds very tough and as you say made you avoidant which makes relationships difficult. Your wife may have her own set of emotion issues to deal with but you can't fix her so can only work on yourself. If your avoidant style is a factor it will be an issue in the next relationship.

The glass incident is just example of irritation you both feel towards each other. It happens when goodwill has disappeared.
Do you go on holiday? What do you do for fun together or separately? Do you have close friends?

It is petty to have a stand off over counselling. If it's important to you book it. If she doesn't engage with counselling then you know the issues won't get resolved so you have a choice, tolerate a sexless marriage or decide to separate. At least you will know.

You mention empathy but then discuss financially support. It is not the same. If your wife feels you were unsupportive during her bereavement it may have caused the fracture in marriage.

Last word, if you mean she is over weight, that could be a source of shame and anxiety for her re sex. It is for me..being large...even though my whippet thin husband reassures me constantly. I just think I am hideous! Maybe she has terribly low esteem and can't control her eating?

Once contempt has moved into a relationship there is seldom anything can be done to save it.

I don't think the glass situation was particularly controlling, from my perspective it's just small potatoes. I think your reaction was unnecessary and it probably came off as ungrateful as she'd gotten you a drink even though it wasn't the glass you wanted.

You both have different values.

Maybe it's a case of familiarity breeding contempt, and so she niggles about every little thing you do.

You can try to talk to her about it. If she won't communicate you should probably leave because it doesnt sound very happy. Please don't bring kids into it, it will just make things much more messy and difficult.

@Geppili I think she does have low self esteem yes. I've never criticised her, but on reflection I've probably havent done enough to reassure her either. You're hubby sounds a keeper! Its just so sad because I now struggle to be affectionate because I feel hurt. The nagging makes me feel small and inferior. I told her a while back and she admitted it was a problem and said she would be less naggy

I show my love through my actions ... doing the work and trying to help her. Cooking, ironing etc. Maybe this wasnt enough. Looking back I struggle to offer emotional support because she doesnt open up to me.

No children? Good. Don't make any. Divorce as soon as possible.

This won't get better.

Looking back I struggle to offer emotional support because she doesnt open up to me

I don't think your spouse needs to open up about bereavement, I would hope most people would have natural empathy.

Support isn't supposed to be conditional. Perhaps you are both avoidant/repressed emotionally?

I think we probably are both avoidant and emotionally repressed. I see a lot of change in me... is it wrong to expect the same of her?

Agree with @puzzledpiece. Give it up. Ffs, you're both miserable and have been for years. She's miserable and picky. You're miserable and confused.

You're treating it like scientific research and determined that a miraculous cure can be found if you work hard enough to find the root cause and right formula.

People do need to work at marraiges, but they shouldn't be hard, miserable, soul-sucking work. More remember to be nice and loving when you've had a stressful day type of work.

Pull the plug. Before you end up forever miserable. Sometimes there is no 'cure'. Just more misery.

(Can't think of a better word than miserable to describe this situation!,)

You are fighting over everything. It’s like a war. Look at it this way, she was doing something NICE for you. Offering a drink. The normal interaction is this
Me “babe want a drink?”
Husband “yes please”
Me “what drink?”
H “ribena”
Then he gets it in whatever glass I happen to grab because any other glass demands is weird and then getting annoyed about it is not ok because somebody making somebody else a drink is a favour that should be appreciated with a “thanks” and THAT IS ALL. You talk about power plays but she wasn’t doing that. She’s probably fed up with your passive aggressive. You are self absorbed, weird and ungrateful. You don’t appreciate or love your wife. Come on let’s be honest. You resent her because the bedroom stuff is dead. It’s super simple. You don’t say anything nice or lovely about her at all. Your marriage is dead. End this torture. Find somebody you do fancy/respect and you won’t give a shit what glass a drink comes in

I'm reading Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay

I think the reason why the glasses resonated was it was a clear case of where I laid out my wants... I asked politely for something and gave an explanation as to why those were my needs. The glasses are next to one another in the cupboard, and I was doing the washing up. I feel my needs were not met....and when they weren't I wasnt rude. Instead I just said that I had asked for a different glass and went and changed it myself without fuss. But then I got shouted out because I was being difficult and it's stupid to use those glasses.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but it just really resonated with me.

@Totem50

This marriage is not too good to leave. What is good about it? You are both unhappy, you say she is nasty to you without good reason, you have both withdrawn and are withholding intimacy. If it’s good on a material level, stop being so shallow. You only have one life and owe it to yourself to find peace, and hopefully happiness if it’s there to be found. If you feel love for her still, give an ultimatum. Marriage counselling for both of you to try to uncover the roots of your problems. Please, please don’t have a child with someone you don’t love or who doesn’t love you. A child isn’t a sticking plaster and you will be condemning them to a repressed childhood too.

If you don’t love her, end it immediately. Don’t think you can rekindle love. In most cases, when it’s gone it’s gone forever. Pull the plug and work on yourself more. Get personal counselling to understand yourself better.

The glass incident is something people often refer to as their lightbulb moment when you see the other persons behaviour for what it is. I would always make my exhusband a coffee or tea, when I had one. I didn’t even need to ask, he lived on coffee. Then one day I saw him with a coffee and realised he always made himself one and never even asked if it wanted a drink. Selfish then and selfish on the day he divorced him.

@Totem50

Yea I've told her we need to go to counselling. But months have gone by and nothing has happened. Because I do a lot of the house admin I had hoped she would have picked it up but after she agreed months ago nothing further has been said.. maybe she is scared of the outcome but she never tells me how she feels. I wanted to find someone I could work with so would rather go private than Relate.

You know this isn’t assertive behaviour, right?

Being assertive means saying where you’re at, not waiting silently in the hope someone else will do something. You’re not telling her how you feel here either.

There’s a lack of kindness and honesty between you. Talk to her about the counselling.

im sorry that you are going through this don't beat yourself up .

everyone wants & deserves to feel loved . being emasculated isn't love

there is obviously an underlying issue or may be the relationship has run its course

you show love through actions but they are practical actions try showing them through feelings that come from the heart and see if she responds

having read through your threaD you seem more practical than emotional maybe thats because you had to deal with putting your feelings aside from a young age in order to cope .

you’ve nailed the practical part of your life now in order to bring love/ passion /feeling “alive “ in to your life you need to work on the emotional part x

Totem, you seem like a really decent guy, but you don't sound happy.
From what you've said you clearly pull your weight around the house (something I think is very important) with the washing up, ironing, food shopping etc, she just sounds like she's lost her zest for life in general and is taking it out on you, you don't deserve that.
It's easy for other people to say but if you don't have children, if I were you, I'd probably leave. You may love each other but you're not happy and if something major doesn't change then why waste any more of your life in the situation? You're still young, be alone and happy or with someone new and happy... But don't stay in a marriage that's unhappy for fear of the unknown or for fear of hurting her. It's not right for either of you.
Good luck x

Thanks all. Just on the assertiveness. Yea I appreciate that I'm still on a learning curve. No matter what the outcome is I'm going to carry on with personal therapy and thinking about myself and my relationships.

I'm just frustrated. We agreed we needed outside help. And from her perspective that was sum game of input. I've been crawling through websites, finding people who might have slots, speaking with them and assessing. It's made me so pissed off that I'm now convinced its not worth it because I'm going into it already bitter. A friend.told me that I was only doing it so i could show that I had tried everything before quitting...

Read back what you wrote about the glass. You were passive aggressive and she shouted because you are being belligerent and quietly obstinate and arrogant and me me me about everything so she had her “fuck this” moment. You STILL haven’t said anything nice about her. You are drifting around in a quietly aggressive “woe is me” state and picking holes in EVERYTHING she does. Even giving you a glass you didn’t want. Why didn’t you just say “thank you” for the drink and appreciate it. When was the last time you spent a day just saying thank you and practicing gratitude? It’s all about you and your needs. The wrong glass isn’t a relevant need. You are being OTT and weird. Sorry but you are. You need help to identify what the right kind of needs are. You are sweating the small stuff because your big need of sex and intimacy isn’t being met. It’s about sex. End of. If you guys were at it like rabbits you wouldn’t give a shiny shit about what glass she gave you

Jesus OP, ignore the weirdos who are projecting their own issues onto you.

It's your house as well and you're a grown man and you can drink out of any glass you want. I think you're right, your wife sounds like your mother. It's like a child asking for a glass and the mother getting a plastic cup and saying, 'You're not old enough yet. Here.' and handing you a sippy cup. She's treating you as though she knows what's best and how to do things right.

I couldn't stand someone standing over me criticising me every day. She sounds very resentful and your marriage sounds like torture. I would have gone up, got the glass I wanted and gone back to the table and she would have probably glared at you over the table because you're not doing what she says.

I would continue the therapy for yourself, it sounds as though you are doing really well and gaining a lot of self insight. Imo, your relationship is over but you'll probably keep at it for a while.

It really annoys me when men claim they are 'helping' with the housework.
The housework is surely both of your responsibility? This notion that men are doing women a favour by doing their fair share has a very 1950s vibe to it and boils my blood.
You tidying, washing, cleaning your own house is not help.
I suspect much of her resentment towards you has something to do with this at a base level.