Mixed messages from woman

[Loodibo]

I'm basically confused and not sure how to proceed here.

I met a girl on the match app and we started chatting. I felt like we hit it off quite quick, were getting to know each other and enjoying the chat. Loads in common.
We were texting for a few days almost non stop. It felt like a real click.
So we arranged a date. We had been flirting a fair bit, but she said she had only recently broken up with an ex so wasn't keen to rush into anything, and we were definitely not going to sleep together on the first date. She said she wanted to get to know me first. That was/is totally fine by me.

So we meet. Chatting, enjoying each other's company. Drinking. She says she's over her ex now. She opens up a lot. Tells me secrets. At one point she's in tears about what she's telling me. It's obviously very personal and I'm honoured she feels comfortable to speak to me about it.
Before long things become physical, despite her saying she wouldn't. We go back to mine. We fool around a bit, but don't have sex. She stays over as she's tired and not feeling well from drink.

I walk her home in the morning. She's a bit upset about how fast things went.

After that, we arrange a second date on condition that there is no alcohol and clothes stay on, and we avoid sexual stuff.
So I invite her for board games. It's all good for a while, but then she offers me a massage and leads the conversation to sex again. I was behaving, but as she's opened the door, I'm happy to join in. She very much leads the convo though, and seems to enjoy turning up the heat. She tells me all the things she'd like to try with me.

I feel like, I am happy to wait for her to be ready, and go at her pace, but she's running with it.

So overall, although she is saying she wants to go slow, she seems keen to jump in too.

So anyway. We're back to text the next day. Having a great convo, talking about all the things we can do next time we meet up.
Suddenly, she says she's not into me romantically and just wants to be friends. Still getting over ex. She wants to do the things we were talking about but she's sure she doesn't see a romantic future for us.

So, obviously I'm confused. Blowing hot and cold. I don't know if she really means there is no future or if that is just the feeling today? Despite the mixed messages, I really really like her and think she's really special. I've told her as such too.
So there is also the factor of hanging out as a friend with the elephant in the room of my feelings for her.

@Loodibo

That probably makes her seem more crazy

It's not covering you in glory either mate. Pair of drama llamas!

Hmmm, man has boundaries clearly set out for him.
Woman has a few drinks, boundaries waver, man thinks "excellent"
Woman regrets and tries to re-establish boundaries, fails, repeat.
Woman clearly not able to make a clear headed decision, man still thinks it's ok to "romantically" pursue her.
Man says behaviour probably makes her seem more "crazy".

It's a bit like bingo.

How many similar stories from the womans point of view have we all heard here? I like to think if it was the woman on here she'd be advised to give you a wide berth.
Not only for her own welfare because she doesn't know what she wants but mainly because we all know how dangerous it can get with someone who doesn't respect and then tries to erode your boundaries.

I'm actually a little dissapointed with a lot of the comments on here I thought we were pro-women (does not equate to anti-male!) but we've had a bunch of assumptions that she is out to do over this poster because the behaviour seems erratic.

Poor woman could have escaped an abusive relationship and some of us have experienced the weird behavioural aftermath that sometimes comes as a result of being squashed for so long.
The last thing she needs is someone who will ignore her clear initial wishes and who just waits for the window of opportunity to open so they can get their end away.

The OP doesn't seem to be thinking very much with his brain up north and that makes me very suspicious of his intent.

All sounds very dramatic and drama fueled for two actual dates. My warning bells would be ringing loudly. If it's this bad and you're on MN asking advice after meeting up twice, how bad is it going to be a couple of months down the line?!

She sounds vulnerable and you seem happy to exploit that vulnerability.

@Notcoolmum

She sounds vulnerable and you seem happy to exploit that vulnerability.

This.

She sounds vulnerable and you seem happy to exploit that vulnerability.

Surely not! He’s a Nice Guy. They just want to find looovvveee. 🤮

I'd like to thank everyone who has offered advice.
I realise I may be insane to pursue. I appreciate the warnings and hopefully they will give me some amount of foresight to tread carefully.

But the short of it is I have caught feelings because of how I feel we click. I don't blame anyone for thinking that's stupid. It probably is.

But I'm not going to be checking this thread any more. I'm getting a lot of hate, despite respecting her, going at her pace, and letting her make her own choices, while my intentions have been clear.

I may prefer it if the post is deleted.

You haven't even taken time to muse on the fact she may actually be vulnerable and you could unintentionally take advantage.

I reckon that's because you know she is and want to have sex anyway.

"catch feelings" my bum frankly

I'm glad your stepping back from this thread. I'm feeling increasingly uncomfortable with each update you give .

How the hell you can catch feelings in this set up is beyond me. When this crashes and burns take some time to sort yourself out before another relationship.

Well enjoy the drama, because there is gong to be plenty! Some people just don't learn!

@squirrelsbizaar

Famousforwrongreason. You can equally meet female martyrs with the same attitude. Why not give some constructive help, instead of just attacking him because he’s male.

I am not here to 'give help' I'm not paid to be here and thats not my role here. But if you want to carry on playing amateur therapist, crack on love. my post was quoting a previous poster who's written an articulate and constructive post with which I wholeheartedly agree. I don't need to retype the same response again.

That is not 'attacking' just because he's a man, neither is me saying he reminds me very much of a man friend of mine who has a lot of the same attitudes.
And wtf is a 'female martyr'? In fact wtf is the point of your response to me? Completely irrelevant and for the record, I have known many, many men who make a play for confused and vulnerable women. It's something a lot of guys actively look for, in order to have control over someone who is weak and at a low ebb. It's very easy to guilt trip them into having sex because they played the lush me / pull you game. Emotionally vulnerable women are vulnerable to predatory men. This guy's language is not just triggering me but is also causing other posters to voice concerns. Nothing wrong with trying to educate the guy about how to have his own boundaries when the woman he's dating clearly doesn't have control over hers at the moment.
A decent guy would back right off until she is in a better place.
Now dfod.

Hi OP,

She sounds like me when I was younger and I often ended up in these situations - going back and forth and the men for some reason loved it.

I think it's that she's unattainable but exciting sexually.

I think she's a bit of a mess. I definitely was. I meant it when I told men I wasn't over my ex, I imagine she does too. As for the occasional bouts of intimacy - alcohol and loneliness.

Avoid. You're going to end up hurt.

famousforwrongreason.
You sound really angry and bitter.
No one on this thread has advised the poster to pursue a relationship with the woman in question.
MN in general is about giving opinion and advice, I guess in that sense we are all amateur therapists ? its just I prefer to be kind to people and not hateful.
No ones a celebrity on here, so I will be staying.
You could also argue that the OP sounds quite vulnerable if they are not long out of a long term marriage and considering jumping into a relationship with a woman with very inconsistent boundaries. Have you considered that, or does the man hating rhetoric not extend that far.
Reference nice guy, women martyrs - basically people that lack self awareness in relationships. A women would be directed to the myriad of support options that are available. Where does a man go ? he dares ventures onto MN and get accused of rape!
Its interesting that when the gender of the poster was queried the venom from certain posters stopped, only to resume when the op confirmed they are male. So yes he is being attacked because he is male.

If he is vulnerable, why is he not taking on board that there is a high possibility she is? Surely he would understand a bit more.

All we know is what he is saying to us, and I just feel something a bit off here. This isn't a guy (imo) who is vulnerable or has the best interest of this woman at heart.

It feels a quite predatory to me - he wants sex and he's not bothered that his chosen sex partner isn't exactly on board/enthusiastic all of the time. Instead she's clearly told him she doesn't want to and then wavers a bit and he's straight on that weakness.

Agree with Famous statement that "A decent guy would back right off until she is in a better place"

A PP said that abusive/predatory guys are like moths to the light with women like the OP has described.

The OP hasn't really shown any concern for her wellbeing or state of mind. His only concern is reading the "mixed messages" in such a way that it gives him the go ahead for a physical relationship.

@squirrelsbizaar

famousforwrongreason. You sound really angry and bitter. No one on this thread has advised the poster to pursue a relationship with the woman in question. MN in general is about giving opinion and advice, I guess in that sense we are all amateur therapists ? its just I prefer to be kind to people and not hateful. No ones a celebrity on here, so I will be staying. You could also argue that the OP sounds quite vulnerable if they are not long out of a long term marriage and considering jumping into a relationship with a woman with very inconsistent boundaries. Have you considered that, or does the man hating rhetoric not extend that far. Reference nice guy, women martyrs - basically people that lack self awareness in relationships. A women would be directed to the myriad of support options that are available. Where does a man go ? he dares ventures onto MN and get accused of rape! Its interesting that when the gender of the poster was queried the venom from certain posters stopped, only to resume when the op confirmed they are male. So yes he is being attacked because he is male.

@squirrelsbizaar You call yourself kind and not hateful? And say I'm attacking because I've expressed the same concerns as a lot of people on here? Yet I'm being singled out by you and 'attacked'. why? And what on earth do you mean by 'no one's a celebrity'?

You are not kind if somebody says that they find this person triggering and you respond by telling them they're bitter. That's really horrible and unkind. If a man posted on here saying the same as me would you call him out? You'd probably tell him how sensitive and enlightened he is.

I haven't said anything different from the majority of posters here, why am I the 'bitter' one?
Perhaps my life experience affords me a little more knowledge to back up my posts.
You sound as though you are the type of person to excuse a man anything because he is a man. Boys will be boys.
poor naive grown man, been married for ten years and now at the mercy of manipulative women and no backbone in order to escape from this minxy femme fatale. This is one of the ways abusers get away with hiding in plain sight, when women underestimate the power of men in a patriarchal society and blame the victim because she is a wily 'female' using feminine wiles to seduce and manipulate.

Seriously, does he really sound 'vulnerable' to you?
He's basically saying 'she's mental but I'd do her anyway' , despite her 'inconsistencies', which is a very common attitude with a lot of men.
There's a popular joke 'the hot and crazy matrix'. And about a billion pick up artists who extol this form of dating in order to obtain the end result of sex.
Not only have I been personally involved in sex crime but I have also worked in this field for a very long time.
Nowhere have I called this man a rapist, you have twisted my words. But...
There many behaviours which are tried and tested by men in order to get women into bed when the woman isn't 100% sure that she wants it. There's even a fucking chart topping song about it. In fact several over the last few decades.
The men who use these moves are not always 'rapists' in the widely understood sense but all the same, they know they're getting sex because the woman is confused and possibly unstable in some way. And vulnerable. Men have the power and experience to exploit this. They are not all the sort of men who you'd cross the street to avoid. Just guys taking advantage because they can. This guy, once challenged by a few people suddenly changed hiw wonderings too 'I've caught feelings'. And why? Because we women will be more sympathetic if we believe he's thinking with his heart and not his dick.

The trouble with amateurs is that their inexperience and lack of relevant subject knowledge can make their advice dangerous.

Potential personality disorder. Steer clear.