Told my mother to fuck off - additional advice needed please

[Nibblingoncrumpets]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to update on the situation as it has had some developments which have been upsetting, and I wanted the wonderful support that I have previously received, again.

Essentially, my son had a birthday and my mother dropped off some gifts from my siblings and her. Left them on the doorstep. No contact made with me (DH was unlucky enough to be leaving exactly as she was arriving and received some victim spiel “leaving some gifts for MY grandson”), cards very much “to MY BELOVED GRANDSON” etc. We kept the gifts as it seemed the least confrontational thing to do, and sent 2 line thank you cards “from our son” to them - to be polite but not have to engage. All very ironic though as her “Beloved grandson” has been in and out of hospital the last 2 months with quite serious medical problems and she is none the wiser as she didn’t want to check in with her daughter living 3 minutes down the road. Add to this that a few village locals have seen me around and mentioned my mother crying to them about being kept away from my son. And unfortunately a mutual acquaintance of ours dropped in a few things she has said eg “I know crumpets had a good childhood because her brothers did”, or “I am so proud of myself I haven’t talked to crumpets in 3 months” or “all my friends agree it’s just awful how she talks to me and I shouldn’t put up with it” etc.

BUT

I am overdue with my second baby. I know that my mother and siblings are bound to be awful and leave some gifts/cards for new baby which do NOT mention me or acknowledge my presence.

Anyway, I feel that boundaries have been crossed. the Toxic Parents book by Susan Forward suggests writing a letter, to just tell my truth to her and express myself. I have drafted such a letter, which I am planning to send when baby is out and presents have been received, along with the presents being returned (or cards - whatever comes up). I am extremely pleased with the letter but I also feel a bit guilty as I know it will upset her/anger her, and it almost makes me wonder if I am exaggerating as I feel so happy now as an adult that I surely can’t care so much about all the things she did to me?

Thank you for any advice in advance. Previous post below:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3878459-Need-a-hand-hold-finally-told-my-mother-to-FUCK-OFF

I always find it surprising how those at fault can brandish their dirty linen

As long as in your mind your happy for the letter to be made public

Safe guard yourself

crumpets

re your comment:-

"Essentially, my son had a birthday and my mother dropped off some gifts from my siblings and her. Left them on the doorstep. No contact made with me (DH was unlucky enough to be leaving exactly as she was arriving and received some victim spiel “leaving some gifts for MY grandson”), cards very much “to MY BELOVED GRANDSON” etc. We kept the gifts as it seemed the least confrontational thing to do, and sent 2 line thank you cards “from our son” to them - to be polite but not have to engage"

First of all I am very sorry to read that your son has been so very ill recently and hope he goes onto make a good recovery.

Unfortunately by responding at all, even if it did not have your name on any response, you gave your mother what she wanted which is a response. That to such disordered of thinking people like your mother is the reward. They know they have you then.

What your mother did here too is to try and control you with gifts. This is hoovering behaviour and narcissists in particular adopt hoovering as a ways of trying to regain power and control over their targets i.e you people. Its an attempt to reel you back in when you decide to lower all contact with them.

Ideally what should have happened here is that the all the unwanted gifts (and gifts should come with obligations and not strings) should have been disposed of promptly into the bin and with no acknowledgement. If she does leave any more stuff on your doorstep going forward please do not acknowledge any of it and dispose of it accordingly. Radio silence from you must be maintained.

Re the letter it will be used by her against you, no matter how carefully worded. I would not send it to her. As Babdoc writes in her comment, "it is important to write the letter because it gives YOU closure - it will not have any desired effect on your mother."

Your own finite level of energies need to focus on you and your family both now and going forward, not on her.

Longer term too, I would look into moving away from this area and leaving no forwarding address.

I have to say I do sad they didn’t acknowledge my letter. Which really surprised me as I thought I was at peace with their lack of love for me.

Shortly after I went no contact I dreamed I was talking to my mother and she was saying the same old rubbish and I was trying to reply to her by telling her the truth because she was lying but my voice was a whisper and she was shouting me down. And I was trying so hard to be heard but my voice was just a whisper despite my efforts.

Pretty much the reality of my personal situation. I was also pregnant around that time so made it more upsetting for me.

As a PP said take care of yourself. Put yourself first and do whatever to help you some to terms with this.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Thank you for
Your response; I often see you on these family threads and your advice
Is always wonderful.

You are right about the presents; I just hadn’t thought about it beforehand and was quite thrown at the time/felt the need to
Not be hurtful. But completely understand how
This will have been interpreted.

My question about the letter would be “if I’m not going to see her (or siblings, most likely) again, does it matter if she uses the letter against me? I won’t know as I won’t be in contact with her”

@frazzledasarock

Not much to say to that, but I’m sending you a hug. I understand you x

If you send it YOU will be watching and waiting for a response directly or indirectly (thru family and friends) - over which you have no control over the timing or actions - this will preoccupy and consume you at this precious time. Don’t give her that - cherish this for your new little family.

Have set polite “close-down” phrases and actions if she turns up somewhere or others talk about her.

Get your DH on board to manage all of this swiftly and calmly. You need actively protecting to feel secure and focused on your new baby. Resist every urge (although natural) to think about your DM. Scoot her out of your headspace when an intrusive thought comes in with a big boom stick and actively replace that thought with a beautiful image of the 4 of you somewhere beautiful.

Is your home private and secure?

Is your home private and secure?

Very! Good advice re forcing her out of my head space

I agree, write the letter for your own benefit but don’t send it.

You think it’s a chance for you to “ have your say” or Put your side of things but she won’t even read it. I mean she will of course lol at what it says and use it against you, but she won’t hear it.

I’d she was capable of recognising that you a human being with feelings then you wouldn’t be where you are today.

All she will do with The letter is show it to people and scream and sob “ I can’t believe she would do that to me after all the sacrifices I’ve made for her. I’ve been the perfect mother and this is how repays me “.

She is incapable of hearing your pain and seeing it from Your point of view. It will never happen. If your happiness and healing depends on that then you will never find it and she will always have power over you.

On a practical level, the fact that you are sending her “ Thank you” letters last week shows that you are not ready to go NC with her yet. You need to think through the implications of this.

If you go NC she might forbid anyone else in the family to have contact with you. Forever. Are you ok with that?

Do you understand that she will tell everyone that she has NO IDEA why you are NC and that you have refused to tell her ?

The thank you cards were “from DS”. It was literally a line saying thank you for my bike etc - I sent them to my siblings too. I just thought it would receive the least backlash to handle it this way.

I am absolutely fine being NC with her. There is no other option; I cannot have her in my life. She is awful. I am more sad about not having my siblings in my life as a result, but they have made their choice and again, it just wouldn’t work. I can’t have a relationship with them now I have “seen the light” about all of their behaviours. They are all co dependent messes and alcoholics anyway - I don’t want my children exposed to that.

I know what she has been telling people, as unfortunately they have told me. It has annoyed me but also just verified to me that she is not someone who will see the error of her ways, and she is basically batshit. She had a very, very unhappy childhood herself and just hasn’t dealt with that. She is still a child. Whcih is not my problem to solve!

The letter is not even really about her understanding it, or seeing the light, or anything. It’s simply me knowing, until the end of time, that I have said everything I want to say to her. Whether she cares or not. Whether she understands or not. Whether she runs through the town like wee willy winky and shows it to everyone 😬 because the message in whcih I told her to fuck off was a jumbled, spur of the moment thing. I want to just have my chance to express myself in a calm, measured manner.

There’s a great bit in the Susan forward book about how, If they were asked, they would of course think/say they they love you, but that they just don’t in a real or constructive way

Really? She thinks that?

Oh, how naive she is for an expert. Mine made a point of telling me & my children she didn't because of what a horrible person I was. Which I had worked out for myself many years previously, but hey, can't beat hearing it from the horse's mouth, can you?

Anyhow, you've decided you want to do it, so you're going to do it anyhow. If she decides to use it as proof of cruelness, mental instability, etc, I'm sure you'll be prepared.

OP I think.there is a lot of good advice in Susan Forward's book but not the part about confronting your parent(s). Maybe for some kinds of 'toxic' it helps, but not with a Narc. It would just give her fuel and she would use it for her own gain in any way she could. The one thing she wouldn't do would be to actually accept one word of it - she's a Narc, so she truly believes none of it can be her fault. Look after yourself and focus on your healing, not hers (by way of letters or anything else). Take care and focus on you

@MitziK

I understand how hurtful that must have been for you, and I’m
Sorry to hear that. Tbh my main drawback for sending the letter is if it’s worth doing something to anger/upset someone else (because I actually do pity her as well, her life is awful when I think about it), when I am happy and have a good life. You are right though, some parents are vocal about not loving/liking their children.

@Badtasteflump

I see your point fully

Hi crumpets

I would still not send this letter, it will be used by her as ammo against you with you this time providing the ready made bullet. Honestly do not give her that level of power.

No contact as well is precisely that so there should not have been any response from you at all previously. I fully understand why you did it though but it was a response and to her, that is the reward.

It is truly not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.

I would suggest using this letter as a form of therapy for yourself. It is cathartic without question. Please don’t send it, though. Painful truths have a way of being twisted around and weaponised against you. Those flying monkeys you mentioned running into will quote things from this letter, only it won’t be you who is the victim, it will be her, and nothing will convince them that this is not HER story. (She sounds very much like my mother, who is fortunately dead, but still affects my self esteem.) The best thing you can do is move far away, change your phone numbers and leave no forwarding address. She does not have any right to access your children. Don’t believe otherwise. Be happy with your own choices to create your own family without her opinions poisoning yourself future.

I get why you feel pity for your mum, OP. But please don't allow the fact that she had such an unhappy childhood to make that an excuse. It isn't an excuse at all.

I used to think that my F's traumatic childhood was an excuse for his behaviour towards us. And his childhood was really traumatic, as he grew up in Prague during World War II, and both his own father and uncle were in the resistance and were killed for it.

Add to that the fact that he also had Parkinson's Disease, so we blamed his illness and his medication for his paranoia and what I used to call his 'bees in his bonnet'; whatever he wanted done had to be done right then, however unimportant it might be.

My DSis and I even thought that maybe his medication was responsible for the SA we suffered at his hands. In short, we were still making excuses for him.

It helped that he'd been dead for many years by then.

The thing that removed the wool from my eyes was reading some of his letters to my DM when I was helping her with a sort out. They reeked of emotional abuse and coercive control. It helped me to understand why my DM was unable to see what was going on under her nose.

My point really is that however bad someone's childhood was, it can't take away their responsibility for their actions. My DSis and I had very difficult childhoods and all we want to do is protect our DC. And quite clearly the same is true of you.

As to sending the letter to your mum, I'm inclined to think it wouldn't be a good idea, but that really has to be your decision. As my F is dead, that's something I haven't had the opportunity to do anyway. But I think that if he were still alive, it wouldn't be a good idea. He's still in my head 22 years after he passed away. If you send the letter, I don't think it will bring you the closure you think it will.

OP you aren't NC. Please read on NC.

Don't invite drama in your life by sending a letter that will not go the way you are planning or anticipating.

Cut her off from your lives. No presents from DS and not accepting her presents. Send them all back. She sounds horrible and you need boundaries.

@Mittens030869

I’m
Sorry to hear that you had an unhappy childhood. And thank you for sharing about your father - you are right that their childhoods/illnesses etc are not an excuse. Your poor mother, too.

OP you aren't NC. Please read on NC

This is a little
Unfair: I have been completely NC since Easter - bar this recent development with the gifts. I think that’s not too bad going, and I regret the gift situation but I panicked.

@justilou1

She does not have any right to access your children. Don’t believe otherwise. Be happy with your own choices to create your own family without her opinions poisoning yourself future

Going to save this in my phone - excellent thank you

You have done brilliantly since Easter - the early days are the hardest - that’s when you are counting days, then weeks, now you are on months and soon it will be years.

All of these milestones come up in the first year and have to be negotiated, dealt with and are each triggering in their own right. Birthdays, births, weddings, funerals, events, anniversaries, wider family celebrations etc. Each one will be a hurdle - but you will think ahead, know it will trigger you but ensure that specific boundaries are in place for each.

Sometimes relationships with nice family members have to be compromised and are a casualty of going NC in order to protect you from your DM.

You have done really well. Don’t get drawn into the pendulum swings of rage and hurt or respond to urges to do something. Express the rage and hurt in safer ways - and instead settle on the dull ache of sorrow and grief for the DM you should have had. But more importantly create space in your mind, heart and life to cram in all the positive people around you to flush out thinking about her.

@Sssloou

What a wonderful post, thank you x

In a similar situation with my father I wrote the letter many times but never sent it. If I had sent it it would never have hit home as he is incapable of taking any criticism. In our dynamic he was always right. Cold hard no contact was what I did. Gifts were donated and not commented on. After a few years limited contact was re established. It's obvious now that if there is any bullshit, I will walk. Conversations are infrequent but respectful and I don't expect much of him. I know where I stand now whereas before I was always seeking approval but disappointed and angry. I had a life threatening illness this year, he didn't visit. Frankly I was relieved, he's hard work.

If I were you, I'd sit on that letter a long time. Do you really need to send it? Stick to true no contact for a while. Look after you and yours, repel the flying monkeys. Accept that there will be other casualties - I lost a good chunk of my extended family who believed my dad's lies and to this day probably think I am the devil incarnate, I think let them believe what they will. One thing that happened for me during the period of true no contact is that I spent my energy on other relationships that grew stronger and are much healthier for me. I'm so happy about that as I have replaced a very negative person with some really great people who give back what's put in in terms of love and respect.

In a similar situation with my father I wrote the letter many times but never sent it. If I had sent it it would never have hit home as he is incapable of taking any criticism. In our dynamic he was always right. Cold hard no contact was what I did. Gifts were donated and not commented on. After a few years limited contact was re established. It's obvious now that if there is any bullshit, I will walk. Conversations are infrequent but respectful and I don't expect much of him. I know where I stand now whereas before I was always seeking approval but disappointed and angry. I had a life threatening illness this year, he didn't visit. Frankly I was relieved, he's hard work.

If I were you, I'd sit on that letter a long time. Do you really need to send it? Stick to true no contact for a while. Look after you and yours, repel the flying monkeys. Accept that there will be other casualties - I lost a good chunk of my extended family who believed my dad's lies and to this day probably think I am the devil incarnate, I think let them believe what they will. One thing that happened for me during the period of true no contact is that I spent my energy on other relationships that grew stronger and are much healthier for me. I'm so happy about that as I have replaced a very negative person with some really great people who give back what's put in in terms of love and respect.

Hi Crumpets,

I remember your first thread well, and I cheered you on from behind my computer screen. I think our mothers are sadly related.

The only advice I can offer is the same advice given to me by my best friend, after I had told my 92 yo abusive and violent (to her dying day) mother that she sucked at being a mother. he told me: "Better to say it now than yell at a grave."

And, boy, did it feel good! I don't even remember her response!

Do what you need to do to have peace within yourself.

My mum was NC with her parents. She eventually did it when she had children because she felt the need to protect us.

My advice, seeing how my mum hasdealt with it, is to cease all contact - no thank you notes from your children, no letters to let her know why you feel the way you do, no nothing.

She is trying to control you still - that is why she is dropping off presents and making comments to others. She wants a reaction because it gives her pleasure to see you jumping and responding each time. This gives her a kick!

No response every time helps you build that wall stronger. It helps you to establish a new life without her influence and the guilt and it means she loses control.

Just because she is related to you doesn't mean you have any obligation to her - she forfeited that with her treatment of you.

Write the letter if it helps you, but I would burn it instead of sending it - it will make no difference to her behaviour.

Go and live a life of your choosing without her spoiling it. Xx

By sending the letter you are reacting to her which is exactly what she wants.
She will be delighted that you have spent time and energy on this letter.
She will love that she has had such a huge impact on you that despite all going on in your life you still think about her ( that it's negative means nothing to these people).
Sending that letter declaring that you want absolutely nothing to do with her is sending to her the message that she's a huge part of your life.

I'd not want her to know I give her headspace.

I am reading everyone’s stories and opinions and taking everything on board - thank you all so much. There is a bit of a split between send/don’t (although it skews towards don’t).

I suppose I will have to see how I feel and what feels right for me (right for me without considering her or her feelings or any external factors, just my own mental health and what I want to achieve etc) when I have had the baby and she inevitably tries to make contact.

It is a wonderful feeling that these last few months have been so much happier without her, and that Is certainly not something I am going to change!