Caring and helpful...or making me reliant?

[peachesandoranges]

Hi everyone

I just wondered your take on this. I have been in my relationship for almost two years. It still feels pretty new. We had some early issues for various reasons. But my main question is how you would feel if a man you didn't live with, often seemed to want to do most things for you?

I don't know if I am just being ungrateful/paranoid and he is being helpful and nice, more so than I am used to, as he is a very different guy to guys I used to date, or if in some way he is making me overly reliant on him. I can't believe he would intentionally be doing this, however.

Examples are I used to have a hobby and a different job and he was often insistent on giving me lifts there and back. I appreciated this sometimes but also felt a bit smothered as I am quite independent and like to walk rather than ride/drive to local places anyway. I told him this but he would still always ask and insist on giving me lifts. But if I said no it didn't really turn to arguments. But I just ended up feeling bad when I said no I want to walk etc.

Also whenever I want to do anything at home he wants to do it, though we don't live together. I was going to get somebody to do some decorating at some point (when I feel safe enough after lock down) no, he would "rather" do it than me get this local tradesman in for it. He didn't really push it too much (he pushed it a bit, however) or argue about it, but still. He didn't give a reason why. I was going to put up some other things in the house, no, he would rather do it and get involved with the sourcing and everything else.

I don't know, writing this down does make me feel a bit silly, I am just concerned I am somehow becoming overly reliant. Maybe I have a gut feeling but it may be paranoia due to my own history. We see each other too much for my liking (a topic I have broached before but we always end up going back to the same old patterns). Perhaps it is more that I am just more independent than he realises. He is older than me and also seems to often want to take on this protector carer role in the relationship, which I know isn't too healthy, and I do get fed up some times with that and feel a bit condescended to sometimes.

I know a lot of men show love by their actions and like to do things but I don't know why... There is something that I am paranoid about or that irritates me a tiny bit about it.

Am I worrying about nothing and just ungrateful?

I appreciate all advice and responses! May take a while to reply as I have so much to get on with today and tonight! thank you

Why are you having fewer arguments now?

I think it would be a concern if it's because you have toned down your assertiveness for him.

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself , you can ask strangers in the internet for their thoughts. There isn't one person that posted on the forum that did it out of anything but choice.

I think it's telling that you feel like you need to work out why you have these feelings . It might be something and it might be nothing. But this is a relationship forum and all the posters are happy to hear and talk about your feelings, and to help you get some clarity.

It is funny you mention "nice guy" as he said a few times early on that he was a nice guy

WOAH - MASSIVE red flag. You are right - nice people don't go around saying they are nice. He isn't nice anyway, making you uncomfortable when you say "no" to stuff.

How much older is he? He may want to mould and dominate you.

You say you've had abusive relationships - other abusers pick up on this, as often said on MN.

Honestly, OP, I'd be very wary of this one.

If you were to make it clear you don't want to live with him for a long time how would he react.

I had one exactly the same and I never felt it was genuine kindness.

It became about control and also making me indebted to him all the time.

In the early days, he would help me out with practical things but later when I really could do with a hand, he was all talk and no action. When I tried to finish it, he went out of his way to buy me things I had mentioned in passing.

When I dumped him, he told me he felt ‘used’ .

Your op definitely set off alarm bells for me.

Btw he got very nasty when I finished it for good.

I worry that he’d use the house jobs like decorating as an excuse to stay over (pre lockdown anyway) and then before you realise it he’s moved himself in by stealth and without discussion. Be wary @peachesandoranges.

If you’re not comfortable about how it’s going you can end it. As others have said you might want to plan how to do that so that you’re safe and prepare yourself for some unwanted behaviour.

But better that than living in a terrible relationship.

Only you know how much it’s not feeling right. Listen to the doubts. I don’t think it sounds great but I’m just some poster on an Internet forum.

Thanks everyone. It's hard as I do really love him and it doesn't seem to come from an abusive place. Just maybe a bit authoritarian in a way, he has taken on this role for himself. He is more than a decade older. Also I am not perfect myself by any means.

He said the nice guy thing a couple times at the start but hasn't for a long time, probably because once or twice I used it against him during arguments eg "that was a pretty nasty thing to say for a nice guy" or something like that.

It has actually been me that has mentioned living together, during happier moments. He has never been that keen/bothered. We already live very close by to each other. Makes it difficult if we do break up.

However deep down I am quite sure it is better not to move in together anyway, I had previously thought I didn't want to live with another man again anyway. I doubt it would happen at least not for a couple more years at which point I would have presumably really thought all my concerns and the issues through and got to know him a bit better, etc. So I am not worried about a living together situation at the moment.

You are right to trust your gut, everything you’ve described is controlling and will likely escalate. He wants to know who you’re mixing with and doesn’t want other people in your house. I’m glad you don’t live together a

Honestly OP this is how it starts

What do you love about him?. What are you getting out of this relationship now?.

What are your boundaries like these days in respect of relationships?. They do seem to be still pretty low here.

You are not paranoid and he is overbearing. He knows it too and does not really care about you. His actions towards you are not loving ones.

You seem to be isolated socially as well, another draw for such a person like this.

I would have a look at Women's Aid Freedom Programme and at the very least do this online initially if you have never done this.

Maybe just a completely honest conversation, pointing out as you have here your concerns.

He may just feel he has to take responsibility for the relationship and micromanage it? Maybe he feels that's his role?

You need to talk honestly and he needs to accept a more equal relationship

Being a bit authoritarian = thinking he is superior and can dictate 😟 He thinks he’s right and has authority to control you, what you do, who you see etc. Every update he sounds more like an angry controlling dad figure than a loving kind partner (partners see each other as equals and respect their differences).

Oh he doesn't control who I see at all. The only example has been the decorating tradesperson thing. He is fine with me seeing my family, friends (though yes I only have a few friends). I appreciate that could certainly change later.

Just seems that yes he does try to take the upper hand when it comes to matters that clearly as a younger woman I am not capable of dealing with/deciding myself. It does really seem like it comes from a place of caring most of the time, but then yes, why do I sometimes have a gut feeling or feel smothered. It is very confusing!

He is funny and attractive and kind and caring a lot of the time. But perhaps he is taking the "caring" too far at least for me anyway.

It is hard though to talk about serious things. Normally results in argument. To be fair that works on both sides, once he tried to raise an issue with me and I also got defensive and annoyed myself. But usually is me try to discuss or raise issues with him.

The abusive relationships I had in the past were very obvious - just pure violence but no controlling or EA or anything. So that is why I find it harder to spot other forms I guess. But also why I am paranoid as well as I am so aware of potential for abuse everywhere.

comes to matters that clearly as a younger woman I am not capable of dealing with/deciding myself.

Why can you not deal with these matters yourself? Who has decided that you are not capable as a "young woman"?

As an adult woman, you are capable of dealing with any matters yourself. Why does he get to decide what you can or can't do?

It does sound a bit weird - the being keen on doing something for you that would create some sort of social obligation, when you hadn't asked at all or seemed bothered about paying someone to do it - I think there's a name for it, loan sharking.
Gavin de Becker's The Gift Of Fear is a good read - helps make sense of why sometimes we should feel uneasy about certain behaviour.

It has actually been me that has mentioned living together, during happier moments
You only have happy moments.
This isn't good.
The more you write the more concerns I think we all have.
Please really think about this and your future.
Value yourself 100%. Do not 'settle'. Be 100% happy and secure in any relationship.

Sounds like the start of controlling behaviour to me too.

@pearsandbears thingsdogetbetter seems to be referring to guys who present themselves as nice but are not genuine and have ulterior motives.
Referring to himself as a nice guy would make me wary, same as people who say “you can trust me”.

OP it’s hard to know, if he doesn’t mind where you go or who you see the rest of the time then it doesn’t seem controlling, not yet anyway, could there be someone at your hobby that he’s insecure about?
The tradespeople thing could be that he genuinely wants to help or he’s uncomfortable with the idea of a strange male being in your house? Or maybe he assumes you are and is transferring that on to you? I don’t really like having tradespeople in my house personally.

After 2 years I would expect some controlling behaviour to have revealed itself, at least a little, but you should absolutely respect what you feel comfortable with and see how he reacts to that. Any argument telling you you’re being unreasonable, ungrateful, minimising your feelings etc is a no no.

We have had many arguments that have ultimately ended up minimising my feelings.

The last one when I raised something he did that made me feel bad sometimes, he just blew up and was all "I'm sick of this shit" and turned it onto me saying I am too thin skinned, this is how it seems to go with arguments now. In the end he did call down and reluctantly accept what I was saying though. Hence I suppose I try to avoid them, so I can't raise anything or discuss anything anymore. All I want is a decent adult relationship with communication which is what I thought I would get with someone older. Although I was very happy in my last relationship, he didn't communicate any issues with me, and just left and broke my heart. So clearly being able to raise and discuss things is now very important to me but I guess not for new one. He never really raises anything. The one time he did, yes I also got defensive and a bit annoyed but I apologised after. But I know now he will just that one time as an excuse to not discuss anything with me going forward.

I do think with the lifts and tradesperson and everything it may be more of an old fashioned paranoia, and sexism to some extent (ie it isn't safe enough for women to go anywhere alone). Like his mother said she would never get a taxi at night. He wants me to be safe etc (even though when these lifts used to happen it was usually day time) I have pointed out to him that yes it is good to be safe but actually women are more at risk of harm from somebody they know, rather than a stranger. But anyway we haven't had the lift thing for quite a few months due to lockdown etc.

Thanks so much for the advice everyone. I don't know whether it is controlling, abusive or not but it certainly bothers and smothers me at times and the whole dynamic of the relationship (him adopting this slightly more authorarian, I think this is best for you role even though I am a grown adult... though I am small and look young for my age...) is frustrating.

OP I personally think he sounds quite manipulative, especially as you mentioned him doing the "I'm a nice guy" thing early on.

I'd guess he's said stuff along the lines of him being too nice for his own good and how people have taken advantage of him before etc?

But you need to take a step back and really process what you're asking and why.

Maybe he's abusive, maybe he's not. Maybe he's consciously manipulating, maybe he's not.

You don't need someone to confirm an 'official' case of abuse to leave a relationship. Being unhappy or unnerved or having an underlying bad gut feeling are reasons enough to leave!

It sounds like due to your previous experience you are doing what many victims of abuse do (including me in the past) and thinking well he's not 'that' bad and he does xyz nice things so I can't end it.

The reality is that even if he was lovely through and through, not controlling etc but you felt this way then you would still be right to end it. Because you aren't feeling happy and secure, you don't trust his intentions are pure (and they sound hella manipulative to me - he'll throw back in your face all the help he's 'given' insisted on giving you when it ends) and that's reason enough.

Life's too short to feel smothered all the time.3

we have had many arguments that ultimately end up minimising my feelings
turned it on me saying I am too thin skinned
him adopting this slightly more authoritarian I think this is best for you role even though I’m a grown adult

Well, regardless of whether his intentions are genuine or not, that isn’t okay.
Maybe don’t try and work out whether he is abusive or not but just think about the above and whether you want to work on the relationship or not.
As pp above I think women who have been in abusive relationships tend to feel they have to have an outsider justify their reasons for leaving as being good enough but just not being happy is a good enough reason.

Hence I suppose I try to avoid them, so I can't raise anything or discuss anything anymore.

So you’re starting to tread lightly, ready to tiptoe on eggshells?...

Not being able to raise issues about things that are perfectly normal for couples to talk about because of a fear of how he will behave is a massive blatant red flag.

Yes to reading the Gift of Fear, and Why Does He Do That, and look at the Freedom Programme. Please.

If someone kept offering up help to the point of being annoying, I think I'd initially stop telling them what I was up to so they don't know to offer. You don't live together so you don't have to tell him your plans all the time, not necessarily being secretive, you could just say at end of the day what you've been up to ( after you've done the necessary . If he insists on being over nosey then just explain to him that you like to do things for yourself in life, and you would like him to leave you to it, unless you ask for help, there is no need to offer, you will let him know.
If he ignored this request, a stern convo about boundaries would be in order - then get out if nothing changes, because it's then becoming more sinister.

Just resserecting this! I am still struggling with my feelings and what I want to do but re-reading the thread and want to reply.

@backseatcookers I do recall him once saying how he had sometimes been taken advantage of because he was too nice, yes...

@Opentooffers I have already been a bit like that throughout the relationship. Can't remember any examples though.

I have forgotten what else I was going to say now! Haha. But if I do I will come back. Thanks for the help.

Oh yes I remember now. One time when we were sending soppy messages about what we liked about each other, etc, one of the things he actually put was something along the lines of, it's really cute how you are determined to try to do things yourself.

I mean?! I am a grown woman! I am a bit eccentric and scatter brained and perhaps not the perfect model of adulthood, but still.