Trying to set boundaries but just pissing her off?

[LadyPrigsbottom]

I have a family member who I really love, but who I find communicating with quite difficult at times. I always manage to piss her off, without meaning to.

She is a little younger than I am, but we are both in our 30s. She lives on her own, so we are her support bubble, which she wanted. She works all week (not from home), so is only free at weekends. So, she came to stay a couple of weekends ago. All fine. We had a lovely time and it was lovely to catch up. However, it obviously eats into family / couple time (which we get little enough of) and one of the kids has to move beds as we have a tiny house. No big deal and no trouble in the scheme of things, but not something we want to be doing every week iyswim.

Anyway, all fine. She asked to come back as soon as she left, so we said not this weekend, but the one after. That is this weekend.

She lives a couple of hours drive from us and last time came for one night, so we assumed that would be the same this time. Then she asked could she come straight from her work on the Friday, so arriving Friday evening. We said could we see how the week goes and let her know later in the week. Then she said she had applied for A/L on the Friday, so, good news, she could come on Friday morning. I said ok, so are you coming for the night again and going back on the Saturday night? She said she'd planned to stay the extra night and go back on the Sunday afternoon. I said, politely, could she just come for the one night, because it's been a busy week (it has) with one thing and another.

This upset her a bit and she said she thought she was like one of the family and I said yes, she is, but she doesn't live here and, crucially, she doesn't have a room here, so it's just a little bit disruptive for the kids and DH who is not obviously related to her at all. I wouldn't want his relative coming for the whole weekend every other weekend etc. This all came out in quite a long conversation btw. I didn't pepper her with all of that in one go and I did try to say it as nicely as I could without being TOO "sweet", (as I have tried that in the past with her and that annoyed her too - I asked her if she was ok because she had been so ott angry with me about not answering the phone to her - I called her back 15 minutes after she called - and she got properly pissed off when I asked if she was ok "don't send me messages like that").

Anyway, the long and the short of it is, that she became upset on the phone today, said "at least I know where I stand now" and then cried and hung up without saying goodbye. I immediately apologise by text for making her cry. She responded saying she isn't coming as she doesn't want to be a burden and also doesn't want to do the drive for just a short stay all the time, which I obviously understand.

At the moment, I just don't have the energy to respond. Many members of my family are volatile and I honestly need to be in the right place to deal with them sometimes, so I know this is also a "me problem". I am not blaming her, because I know I sometimes come across as defensive / territorial about having family time with DH and dcs? And that is genuine. I do think I come across that way at times and wonder if I'm being a twat and need to lighten up about that...

Does she not have many friends normally? Sounds a little like she is spending too much time in her own head, and getting carried away thinking about little things, and seeing it only from her own point of view - loneliness can have that effect unfortunately. She might well feel rejected by everyone, hence the crying when "even you" or your five-year-old "reject" her.

Ultimately, though, that is a problem that only she can solve. Difficult at the moment, but if she is spending too much time alone, relying just on you for company, that's just not going to work. If she feels unable to go out and find friends, she needs to get help, work out some baby steps she can take to start improving things, and find some other activities to improve her mood.

@ravenmum, she has a lot of friends and works full time with colleagues she genuinely loves. She is a keyworker, so has never been in lockdown. Her job involves working closely with people.

She has a housemate who moved out at the beginning of lockdown, but who she sees for socially distanced walks and sport, she has an old school friend living round the corner from her. They were very close at school and have stayed in touch, going on holidays together, she was her bridesmaid etc. She has colleagues who she is in touch with from her training, which she only recently completed.

She is a lot less isolated than I am arguably, except that she lives alone.

She has always maintained brilliant relationships with anyone not in our immediate family, which is what makes her behaviour towards me and sometimes our other sibling and parents, (when they were both alive and now the surviving parent), all the harder to understand.

But you're right about her social life and actually, horrible as our conversations have been, she did say she now has stuff on with friends this weekend. She always had this option but prioritised coming to us, which makes me feel guilty.

Thinking back to some conversations we've had over the years, I remember saying how much I hated the explosiveness and drama of our family and she said she quite liked it. Obviously, she doesn't like it when things go badly wrong, but the minor squabbles, in-fighting and small dramas, she finds entertaining, but I don't. I think some of the things I have found genuinely a bit upsetting, she thinks is a bit of a laugh.

The people who argue the loudest at boundaries being set are generally the ones who try and run right over them. They are the ones who need them the most.

You are right to step away.

Engage when she is calm. Offer family counselling for the two of you to try and repair it, but make it clear, your children are off limits until your relationship is better.

If my sister said she wanted to see my DC and not me in the was your sis did, I'd be telling her to stay away and actually temporarily block her to get some space.

It's not healthy for my DC to be around someone who has such feelings towards me.

So if she maintains that she doesn't want to talk through the issues as you suggested, then she can stay right where she is.

I haven't got the time for that kind of nonsense.

Do you have other siblings?

Yes, one other sibling, who neither of us sees much of, as they live really far away.

Your sister is a nasty bitch who is manipulating you to get what she wants.
What do YOU get from the relationship because reading your posts, you seem pretty frustrated by her!
So what if she's your sister? That doesn't give her the right to boss you around and take advantage of you.
Stand up to her and don't back down!!

So it is more that she has a thing about families, and likes making drama? In that case, however hard you work to be nice, she's going to create drama, as she has now. You might as well not try; the end result will be no different.

She is not more important than you! Her feelings are not more valid than yours. Sounds like a ton of drama and no payback. Who CARES if she wants to see your children? As parent you make that call. Sounds entitled and tedious and too much drama by far. I’d avoid for a bit if I were you and Grey Rock thereafter.

At the moment, yes, I do find her very frustrating, but she can be fun and very loving towards the kids. Always has been a bit on and off with me. I won't write her off entirely, as she has been through a rough ride, but I will definitely be trying to keep a little bit more distance between us.

She has this habit of looking at other families and saying "I want to be like that". She always has done this. Wished away our parents and wanted to be part of other families. So, at the minute, she has a friend who is very close to her sister and I think she wants to emulate that with me. But the problem is, there is clearly underlying resentment there, from both of us tbh. She clearly feels resentful about some stuff with our deceased parent and I honestly can't just forget completely some of the stuff she has said and done before that and since. Not talking about childhood btw, but as adults, she has done some extremely upsetting things to me, including coming very, VERY close to punching me square in the face, after tbf I had just called her extremely selfish, so I 100% was not innocent, (she stopped herself at the last minute, but was in a properly spit flying rage), which I can't just pretend didn't happen. And talking last night, it wasn't difficult to get her to admit that yes, she feels resentful towards me too, which I understand, as she did get left dealing with some very difficult stuff with our parents. Again, this was a long time ago. Many years now, but not childhood. But the resentment is still there, so it can't be just like her friend and her sister.

She wants to play happy families, but then I will do something which on the face of it is not at all bad, like, for example, she once called me and was worried about an exam. I can't remember what I said, but I was trying to reassure her and she went absolutely batshit at me down the phone and it's always a criticism "you are SO bad at this" etc flowed by wailing and shouting. Similarly, when I didn't answer the phone recently. I was homeschooling one child and watching a toddler and I left my phone charging on silent. 15 minutes later, I saw the missed call and called back. She was spitting mad. "OK, Prigsbottom, you REALLY need to make sure you have your phone near you in case of emergencies" in a totally arsey tone. She also sent a message to my DH telling him the same, that I had to be available. It was not an emergency btw, or, at least it was not something I had any control or say over. She thought this was fine, that it wasn't aggressive and that I'd misinterpreted her "panic" for aggression.

Anyway, I think this must come from a place of underlying resentment about stuff which I understand her feeling resentful over. But then, please don't pretend we're chums and then treat me like your personal punching bag.

Would she scream down the phone at her colleagues? Course she wouldn't. She knows exactly how she's treating you.
How dare she. Seems like that's become the family dynamic. You can easily change that. You're a grown up who doesn't have to listen to her shite, sister or no sister.

Just read your your update. Honestly?? She sounds abusive. Set those boundaries now.

Your update OP honestly who has time for all this raging and storming? Incredibly tiresome. Good for you for stepping back now but .... why has it taken you so long? She is awful - do you feel like you don’t count? (Hint - of course you do!)

I wouldn’t entertain this for five minutes. Sister or not I’d tell her she can come and stay ( if you must) for one night. If she doesn’t like it she can fuck off. My relationship would be over with Anybody that punched me square in the face.

She needs some outside help by the sound of it as this is a really toxic relationship. Maybe you could suggest meeting half way and each driving an hour if she wants to meet again. I sure as hell wouldn't want someone so resentful in my house, especially with children around.

I agree newname, re the outside help tbh.

I would definitely meet up, not at home. At the moment she's not saying anything, but I think we need a bit of space from each other.

She is very unpleasant and selfish from the sound of it.
Someone who wants to see my kids and not me the sister can bog off. She wouldn't be invited to stay over again for a very long time. Maybe when she actually grows up and doesn't tantrum worse than the two year old you can talk again. I'd not put the kids on FT with her to shield them from her idiocy.

Time is precious with DCs - they need to be in a calm, peaceful and positive environment where everyone treats each other with kindness and respect. Not where there is demanding, difficult behaviours where everyone is adapting in case she blows her top - they wills sense, absorb and internalise this tension/drama/toxicity - and be confused by it and it will cause them anxiety. They also don’t need to experience their own mother walking in eggshells. If you DH has heard her raging - then your v young DCs may have as well - this will have scared them. They don’t need any of this.

You have decided that you want to live an gentle and peaceful life - she is sabotaging this - don’t let her. She is a “high conflict personality” and needs professional help to address it not an environment / relationship where this is inadvertently enabled and facilitated.

She chooses to treat others with respect and chooses to be ugly and volatile with you. Think about that - and stop her in her tracks by staying calm and having clear consequences and boundaries. But to be frank if she is honest that she is holding resentment and treating you with contempt - then there’s v little to salvage here and you would be doing both of you a favour to detach and put in some cool distance.

YOUR DCs are not here to entertain your toxic sister.

She reminds me very much of my sibling, down to the blaming one parent for the other's death. I've recently had a child sibling had suddenly decided family is the be all and end all. Like your situation it's complicated, and I do understand why she's like she is but her behavior was not inevitable. Our mother is scared of her so I get thrown under the bus to appease her.

My way of dealing with it is to just bit have a relationship with her. Why should I put up with being treated like shit just so she can play at being happy families? As far as I'm concerned I need to protect my daughter from her and if that causes problems so be it. Luckily I don't live close to her at all.

Next time yours starts at you down the phone just tell her you don't need to put up with it and put the phone down. She'll fume, but let her. You need to train her that tantrums will not get her the result she desires.

@TimeIhadaNameChange, that is spookily similar .

Thanks again everyone for the help and support on here. I'm glad not to be seeing her this weekend tbh, after hearing what she thinks of me. I'm sure she feels the same way and I'm very glad she has other plans with friends instead.

She sounds awful, and yes, abusive.

I'm wondering though what the family dynamic was like growing up - did she witness emotionally abusive or really dysfunctional relationships? What was your parents relationship like?

Something has gone quite wrong for your sister.

OP, she doesn't like you, tolerates you and uses you as an emotional punching bag.

You have become confused over time and thought this was something you had to tolerate.

Your obligation is to your children and husband.

When family life and work are full on, it can be exhausting to try and find time for anything else.

When I was in the thick of it I became nearly irrationally annoyed when a couple of people felt they could just land in on me. Not something they would tolerate at all I might add.

I brutally cut them off.
We are now back in touch but I do not regret my clarifying things.

When you work and have a young family, you are giving and giving and people who bring stress to your life and nothing more need firm backing away from.

Take space and time from her.

She sounds most unpleasant and hard work.

Accept that you need space.

She needs to grow up, but sadly I doubt she will.

Protect your family and your peace.

@AbsentmindedWoman, I totally agree. There is something wrong with the whole family dynamic. It is a long story and yes, there was some horrible interaction between our parents, but this was when we were adults. I don't remember them being the happiest couple when we were children, but this sister actually disagrees and did think they were very happy until we were adults. No abuse or anything like that that either of us knows about and actually, they seemed to be very happy together when one of them sadly died. Which is sad in a way, but also quite reassuring.

billy, yes, I think that there is something going on that means she doesn't like me. Or maybe it's just my personality. But it doesn't really matter either way tbh.

I think it sounds like you have the patience of a saint. I don't think you can give any more, without actually becoming a doormat. Her problems are not your problems. It's nice that you care about her, and are accomodating her so much. You don't need to sacrifice your family time for her. FWIW before I had children, I was more selfish and didn't 'get' it in the same way I do now. Don't allow yourself to be manipulated/steamrollered, because you'll just feel resentful. If she throws a Queenie fit on the phone, and you are ringing to pacify her, you are just feeding the drama that she has admitted she likes. A healthier dynamic would be to state your case (and it seems like you have cracked this part) and then refuse to be drawn into the dance. If it stops working, she may become over time more straightforward to deal with.