Trying to set boundaries but just pissing her off?

[LadyPrigsbottom]

I have a family member who I really love, but who I find communicating with quite difficult at times. I always manage to piss her off, without meaning to.

She is a little younger than I am, but we are both in our 30s. She lives on her own, so we are her support bubble, which she wanted. She works all week (not from home), so is only free at weekends. So, she came to stay a couple of weekends ago. All fine. We had a lovely time and it was lovely to catch up. However, it obviously eats into family / couple time (which we get little enough of) and one of the kids has to move beds as we have a tiny house. No big deal and no trouble in the scheme of things, but not something we want to be doing every week iyswim.

Anyway, all fine. She asked to come back as soon as she left, so we said not this weekend, but the one after. That is this weekend.

She lives a couple of hours drive from us and last time came for one night, so we assumed that would be the same this time. Then she asked could she come straight from her work on the Friday, so arriving Friday evening. We said could we see how the week goes and let her know later in the week. Then she said she had applied for A/L on the Friday, so, good news, she could come on Friday morning. I said ok, so are you coming for the night again and going back on the Saturday night? She said she'd planned to stay the extra night and go back on the Sunday afternoon. I said, politely, could she just come for the one night, because it's been a busy week (it has) with one thing and another.

This upset her a bit and she said she thought she was like one of the family and I said yes, she is, but she doesn't live here and, crucially, she doesn't have a room here, so it's just a little bit disruptive for the kids and DH who is not obviously related to her at all. I wouldn't want his relative coming for the whole weekend every other weekend etc. This all came out in quite a long conversation btw. I didn't pepper her with all of that in one go and I did try to say it as nicely as I could without being TOO "sweet", (as I have tried that in the past with her and that annoyed her too - I asked her if she was ok because she had been so ott angry with me about not answering the phone to her - I called her back 15 minutes after she called - and she got properly pissed off when I asked if she was ok "don't send me messages like that").

Anyway, the long and the short of it is, that she became upset on the phone today, said "at least I know where I stand now" and then cried and hung up without saying goodbye. I immediately apologise by text for making her cry. She responded saying she isn't coming as she doesn't want to be a burden and also doesn't want to do the drive for just a short stay all the time, which I obviously understand.

At the moment, I just don't have the energy to respond. Many members of my family are volatile and I honestly need to be in the right place to deal with them sometimes, so I know this is also a "me problem". I am not blaming her, because I know I sometimes come across as defensive / territorial about having family time with DH and dcs? And that is genuine. I do think I come across that way at times and wonder if I'm being a twat and need to lighten up about that...

Yes, I agree with you and thank you.

I (very politely) said, could you please just stay the one night this weekend and she took the hump, cried and hung up on me. I mean...is that normal? And then "I don't want to be a burden, so I'm not coming". Jesus.

The time that she got arsey, because 5yo was being a bit camera shy, I did say, "dc is 5 years old. You are thirty years older. Think about what you are doing", and she said "NO!" like a fucking 3 year old. She does sometimes act like another child and it's ridiculous tbh. She is a highly intelligent, professional woman, in her thirties the rest of the time, but she just has these bonkers moments where she acts like a toddler and stomps her feet if she doesn't get her way.

Sorry, I'm on a roll now aren't I? Thanks for letting me vent a bit appreciate you don't have a choice as it's an online forum. I'm sure it'll all blow over soon enough and there are much worse things going on in the world than this.

I definitely see where you are coming from. Let her know she is welcome but because there is no spare room its difficult. My sister is just like this . Very prickly and you feel loke she is always judging you. Ok in small doses

Vent away.
Sounds like years of stuff built up. Next time she has a tantrum, ignore her.

I think I'm ignoring future tantrums. That is my policy from now on. Ok, not when it's my actual 2yo, who rarely tantrums actually.

femfem, yy! Smaller doses would be better. If she lived nearby, I could happily host her for meals etc or go on shopping trips, but then say goodnight and so long. It's harder when she comes to stay, as she reverts to being a bit child like and then I have an extra child to watch, instead of adult company.

Thanks everyone

Setting boundaries will frequently piss people who behave in such a way that you need to consciously/verbally work to set boundaries with them to an extent that you don't have to with other people.

These are people who manipulate, guilt trip, pressure, whatever to try and overturn a boundary- they can't accept a no.

Many members of my family are volatile and I honestly need to be in the right place to deal with them sometimes, so I know this is also a "me problem"

Not at all- they sound stressful/hard work. Anyone would find it hard.

Also, pre lockdown, we could go places together. Now we are in our house or garden a lot more.

You could go out for a drive and a walk etc now. Maybe have her overnight once a month/few weeks or something? She comes for tea and then a trip out the next day?

Decide what you want to do. It's your life and you have enough to deal with with work and the kids etc. You have a right to shape your life in a way that's best for your relaxation, well being and mental health.

She really is, if she wasn't my sister, the most inconsiderate guest.

I know you said these things can't be said, but you could say over the phone that if she comes she'll have to do/not do X,Y,Z. If she loses it, so what? I don't think she'll completely disown you, and if she disowns you for setting boundaries then she's not someone you want to have around anyway.

If she's so fragile that she claims to need you this much, you are not the right person to help her, she needs more help from professionals.

Good lord it sounds exhausting!
Your house , your rules.
Your kids, your rules.
Your family time and marriage, your rules.
She’s needs a big grow up!
Sorry to sound harsh OP but you have gone beyond the call of duty. Next time she’s in your house give her lots of jobs, tell her to clean up after herself and get her out of bed early to go on child friendly walks!
Bet she won’t return for a while. 😜

She sounds a right pain in the arse.
In my younger days I would worry about upsetting people/ keeping them happy but came to realise that some people just push and push and still aren't happy!

These days I will make an offer (i.e. you're welcome to stay for one night) and not budge from it. If I get told I've upset someone I will say "oh dear, I'm still happy for you to come one night - have a think and let me know".

It's win win for you. She either backs down and comes for one night (without being pandered to) and learns you have put a line in the sand. Or if she strops and doesn't come, hurrah, no PITA guest for the weekend!

Has she always been the golden child?

Honestly, thank you so much for the support. It has helped me a lot .

Monica, golden child...no... I don't think so. She is more shouty than smug iyswim?

honey, yes, this is what I should be doing I think. DH just looked baffled / amused when I said what she'd said. He has heard her in full swing before and been partially on the receiving end, so he knows what she is like sometimes.

As PP has said your DH, DCs, family life, weekends and down time comes front and centre. These family times are finite and precious. They are precious because you want to have a calm and peaceful home - where everyone treats each other and also automatically expects to be treated with kindness and respect.

Anyone who compromises these values / behaviours even if they are just creating enough tension so that you all have to adapt your own behaviours and tap dance around them so as not to trigger a volatile outburst - is not welcome and not compatible in your home.

Your DCs don’t need to see you on edge, your DH doesn’t need his weekends changed to accommodate her - they come first not her.

The volatility in your family is causing you to behave in ways that are not healthy.

Your description of her reminds me of Rachel younger Sister in Friends. All me me me and stropping if she doesn't get her own way.
She is acting like a child so you need to act like the mother and lay down rules.
I would not put up with the way she talks to and about your child. Thats disgraceful behaviour. Stick to your guns and hopefully she will eventually get the message.

Stop pandering to her emotional terrorism. She sounds like a toddler having a tantrum who thinks the entire universe revolves around her. How exhausting.

The dynamic makes her sound like a stroppy teenager who wants to come back home to stay with her mum.

Does she ever reciprocate your hospitality? Not necessarily for the whole family but has she ever invited you to stay at hers for a night?

It just comes across as being a one-sided relationship where everyone walks on eggshells around her to avoid setting off another teenage tantrum.

I would put these weekend visits on hold for a while. She sounds exhausting.

OMG YES, SHE IS VERY HARD WORK! NEVER would I say this IRL, never. But omg sometimes very hard work, very combative, very judgemental towards other family members. Sometimes, she loses the rag if the fucking 5yo isn't nice enough to her on FT

Stop pandering to her!
Don't enable her with offering another weekend when she can stay longer!
You don't need to jump just cos she snaps her fingers at you - or throws a tantrum.

Personally, i'd offer more than one night only during school holidays......and i wouldn't be making sleeping over for one night a regular thing either.
It doesn't sound like she has any respect for any of you so i don't get why you're taking on guilt for wanting and asserting boundaries.

Thanks again so much everyone.

I still haven't replied. I will sleep on it and she may say something else in the meantime.

Rembrandt, I have not stayed with her actually, but I'm sure if the occasion arose, she would host me.

Update: we spoke yesterday and I think I was a lot more honest about things.

Basically, her going off at me and often shouting down the phone and sometimes dissolving into tears is ongoing and has been for many years. I said there is clearly something in our relationship that is not right or healthy and I'd like to work on that away from the dcs. She basically said she would rather see the kids than me, said I was being an asshole, cried, said I was not to dare compare my bereavement with hers (parent), "don't you fucking dare say you suffered the same as I did". I mean, she does have a point. It's a long story. But either way, I don't think she has altogether warm feelings towards me, so I guess this is why she gets very angry with me over seemingly small things. I often answer the phone to her and with absolutely no bad intentions, manage to really anger her.

She is dealing with a lot, as our family is quite complicated, but I just feel, right at the moment, that I don't want to be tap dancing to keep her happy any more. I feel bad for everything she has gone through. She feels I have come off better because "you have a family and a husband", but actually, I've had plenty to deal with myself. I have had to move all over the place with my DH. She has had A LOT of financial help to work on her now excellent career. Looking after dcs, while lovely and entirely my choice, is no picnic, especially with no family around at all and also dealing with a bereavement just before I fell pregnant with our first dc. I think dismissing my feelings because hers are more important is unfair. I should say, this all started about 10 years ago or more. This is not a very recent bereavement and even before that, this sort of stuff came up.

I knew it wasn't just about the weekend. She also misunderstood what I'd said about this and thought I was strictly saying 24 hours only, which is something i did not say. I explained the only reason I thought it would be ok for her to come for one night is because that is what she did the last time and preferred it for practical reasons. Now that I know it's not a reasonable drive for a short stay, I won't suggest it again.

I'm tired out of people taking the hump all the time. It's sad and I don't want to be isolationist, but I'm not making huge efforts to keep our family together anymore.

Long story again, but this sister refused to speak to our surviving parent for a while and accused them of killing (not literally, but being responsible for the death of) our deceased parent. I don't agree. This obviously caused enormous upset at a terrible time and the family hasn't been the same since. No, I don't blame her, as it is a horrible history, but it makes things harder.

As you can see, it's all very complicated and unpleasant, but even if I am being the asshole and she is the innocent party, surely it is better for us not to have too much contact at the moment? I know she wants to see the kids and I don't want to prevent that, but at the same time, she took the hump so strongly when I said come for one night instead of two. I don't think I'm being an obstacle.

Anyway, excuse the long post.

I feel sad about this whole thing and hope I don't live to regret it. I don't think I'm stubborn by nature at all but I really do feel a bit of a breather is needed all round.

She is deeply unpleasant, disrespectful, ungrateful and volatile. Amazing that what you suspected has come out after just one phone conversation. V odd that a mature grown woman hasn’t developed a social life sufficient to fill her weekends.

You are doing her a favour. She will now have the opportunity to reflect on her own behaviour which it seems is consistently difficult with others - not just you and she will know this.

She then has to take the choice to make some decisions to adapt her thinking and evolve as an adult - or to remain stuck, bitter and trapped in her negative, unresolved rage and anger.

None of this is your concern though. Sounds like your extended family situation is challenging all round and I would just keep focused on maintaining and preserving the calm and peaceful family life you are creating with your little unit and not get drawn into any dramas elsewhere.

Take a breather. You are not responsible for her. Sounds like you are the emotional dumping ground.
So she comes to stay in your house but only cos she wants to see the kids rather than you and she told you that?
What a twat.

I was always the peacemaker in my family. Not anymore. I got tired of them behaving how they like, yet my feelings were completely ignored. I'm tired of excusing bad behaviour.
Put in your boundaries, this will only get worse if you don't.

I am actually a bit teary reading these posts. Thank you so much. I'm just very relieved. Thank you for the supportive comments.

I hate anger. I feel like I have seen too much of it in our extended family. I don't want my children to grow up like that and think it's normal to rage at everyone.

I am going to 100% focus on making the safest, most peaceful, loving home I can for my kids. I am not engaging with any of this unpleasantness anymore. I would honestly rather be left totally alone than deal with this.

I am leaving my proverbial door open if she ever feels as if she did anything wrong and wants to work on things with me. At the moment, she is fully focused on me being a baddy. Even if I am, surely she is better off without me then, so no loss for her either.

Honestly that’s such a wonderful decision you have made a lifelong gift for your DCs. Difficult, messy, enmeshed families leech your emotional finite capacity and even if you are not dealing with this week’s drama your headspace is preoccupied with their negative and histrionic stories, issues, spats etc.......which means you have less headspace and emotional energy available to generate positive energy for your DCs. You can’t be in two emotional places at once, we all only have finite energy - CHOOSE who gets it and where you deploy it - and guard it closely.

Thank you