Using sex to deal with feelings

[Lorelai101]

Just before lockdown something happened with the guy I'm seeing. I wont go into it, but he handled a situation badly. People said he was abusive and I was vulnerable and should walk away, but I really don't see it like that at all. I feel very safe with him and if I was concerned about abuse I would walk away.

But the problem is that he seems to have some sort of default mode of sex. In the above 'situation' basically I was upset and he used sex to try and make me feel better. Then, we were working through some things and he was upset, got drunk and called his ex fwb and invited her over. He says when she got there nothing happened as he realised it was stupid and sent her home but his first reaction was to have sex.
He has a tough relationship with his Dad who has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer. He didn't want to talk about it, which I get, but he initiated sex which was quite rough like he was letting his emotions out through sex. (I was ok with it, if I wasn't I would have stopped him) Afterwards he was really apologetic and worried he had hurt me or was too rough with me. We had sex again later and he was gentle.

I don't know if I'm reading too much into the whole thing? But I'm worried its going to be a problem if his main way of communicating is through sex. We do talk, its lot like we don't communicate at all but... I don't know...I don't even know if any of this makes sense.. :(

Good for you. Take some time out, look after yourself and move on stronger. Good luck with everything.

I remember that thread
Yes it was really fucked up and horrible behaviour from him. It was a shocking way to respond to a panic attack. Women can and do get aroused whilst being sexually assaulted - it's a documented phenomenon. You weren't thinking clearly whilst having a panic attack and his response to that was to start being rough and sexual with you. Grim.

Hi op
I was in a RS with someone earlier this year who had weird sex boundaries and it took me a while to see it, as I really enjoyed having sex with him so it was even more confusing. He knew I had been seriously sexually assaulted as a young woman and I had some certain positions or things I didn’t like, that made me feel scared. He sometimes did used to try to gently touch my neck, I would say No, stop that but I had to say it more than once and give the reason why - he was offended I would not want him to touch my neck... but I had already said I never want anyone to. Also I didn’t like feeling trapped if he lay directly and full weight on top of me, and had to also tell him that more than once too
The last time I had sex with him, he was in a weird mood, it felt strange like he was all disrespectful and reckless. he laid his full weight on top of me and wouldn’t get off when I asked him to. I went home feeling weird and violated and not long after I ended it with him and now I see it was the right thing to do and it could have just got worse and worse with him pushing my boundaries and getting off on doing so

You aren’t weak, nor am I. Please do get out of this. You don’t owe him a face to face you can end things however you want to

I remember that thread. Yes, bloody awful. He is sadistic. It's not your fault, anyone can run in to a wrong'un, and unfortunately they do target/manipulate women with mental health problems or who are vulnerable in other ways. What matters is what we do next. xxx

A long time ago, I had an experience where I was crying and a bloke I was seeing shagged me. I found him very attractive so I thought nothing of it, but really I think I would've preferred him to chat to me.

With that particular guy though, as far as he was concerned I was just there for sex really so it didn't matter what frame of mind I was in, I should be giving him sex if he's with me and wants it. There's probably an element of that with your guy- he feels entitled to and is overly obsessed with sex.

But I think your one also got off on it. The bloke I was seeing said after this incident he didn't think he was a sexual sadist, he just 'likes extremes of emotion.' Who knows with these guys, though.

I'm 43 and have experienced a lot of users and other dodgy types over my lifetime.

Start looking for the red flags when you date again, avoiding or ditching wrong'uns quickly, and learning to be happy in your own company with your own hobbies and goals, so you can drop arseholes easily.

Maybe I do try and rationalise it to make myself feel better but reading all this stuff makes him look like a complete monster and its really not like that at all.
Nobody is perfect. I make mistakes too. Maybe I like that he's not perfect, because I will mess up too and I'd want him to forgive me.
All this talk of rape and stuff, I feel like its just dramatising what really happened. Like the thing with his Dad. He came round and I opened the door to let him in. I could tell his mood was off, like his head was somewhere else. I asked if he was ok. He didn't say anything, just pushed me against the wall and started kissing me quite aggressively and we had sex right there in the hallway. I was fully aware of him being rough but I was ok with it. I allowed him to do that because I thought that was what he needed from me at that time. After, he apologised and checked I was ok. He genuinely seemed to feel bad about it but I reassured him it was fine. So maybe I was in the wrong as I should have stopped it. I knew he was upset and allowed him to do something he then regretted afterwards. He needed me to be the one to tell him no, and I didn't. So it's not all on him. Maybe I just cant be the person that he needs me to be. I cant set the boundaries he needs. Maybe I do need to get some self respect and realise this has all been some abusive game to him. It's completely heartbreaking to hear people think our whole relationship has been a an act and his feelings for me are not genuine. I'm really not trying to justify it at all- It is what it is. But I guess maybe I was looking for some reassurance that maybe it doesn't have to be the end. That yes, he has issues, but we can work on it. But I get that I shouldn't.
Im not backtracking, I will do it. I'm currently writing him an email explaining how I feel and that I want to break up. But I'm finding it really hard and confusing. :(

I found your latest update quite hard to read. 'I can't set the boundaries he needs '. This is not your fault.

I was fully aware of him being rough but I was ok with it. I allowed him to do that because I thought that was what he needed from me at that time.

Do you realise how that comes across OP? Very worrying. You have not been put on this earth to allow someone to do that to you.

What happens the day he has this urge again and you are not in the mood? Or he has an urge and you’re not around but someone else is....? You know deep down there is a strong possibility he never turned The FWB away that day.

He has issues and you cannot both on it. He has to work on his issues and he won’t because you are enabling his behaviour.

In your example above, I don’t see it as you consenting. You allowed him because you felt you had to he needed it. This isn’t consent imo. Consent is you being up for it, wanting it not feeling you have to....

Once you are in a pattern where you have no boundaries and he knows it, he doesn’t respect you and that won’t change. You can only leave.

Oh OP I can identify so much with what you're saying.

I had/am trying to have a complete overhaul of myself after my latest wrong'un.

Getting some self-esteem and not being made into a puppet because of my desire to please people and not lose them.

I cant set the boundaries he needs

He's not a child, or an animal, if he acts inappropriately that's not your fault or your responsibility.

I don't think there's anything you can do which would need the level of forgiveness his behaviour demands.

Reread your last post op. It has made me feel quite sad for you.

You are not here as a "thing" for him to use to fulfill his needs; where are your wants and desires in this? Where is the kindness and empathy and gentleness and understanding from him?

He is testing your boundaries. So far you’ve shown him you have none. There’s always a dead/dying dad at the back of it somewhere it’s no excuse.

www.docdroid.net/py03/why-does-he-do-that-pdf

Came across the pdf of one of the books on another thread. It's not you, it's him. He's not normal. You don't owe him anything, you're allowed end any relationship, at any time, for any reason. You don't have to write him a big long email explaining yourself. He'll probably try and argue his way out of any points you make anyway.

Thank you- I will read the book.

I don't want to keep going on, I know he was wrong and I'm being an idiot, so I'll drop it now, but there is another side to all this.
The man that listens to me have
a little cry down the phone when I'm having a tough time with the kids and then sends me flowers. Takes me out for surprise lunches when we'd not seen each other for a while, rearranging things at work to spend time with me in the day when Im free as the kids are at school. The man who understands I have kids and that they do come first.
The man who sends me messages telling me he cant get me off his mind.
The man I can chat to for hours, who makes me laugh, is constantly showing me affection, touching my hand, my waist, my hair like he cant get enough. The man I opened up to who didn't run away.
What if it is all just a genuine misunderstanding and I'm throwing it away.

@Lorelai101, the man who deserves you will be respectful of your feelings all the time. I recommend reading the Baggage Reclaim blog about the landmarks of healthy relationships. Don’t get distracted by him sending you flowers etc when the base framework of respect and trust doesn’t seem to be there.

That's why its confusing. Because he can be so lovely. And if he is so lovely other times, how can he suddenly treat you the way you described in your other post.
Because he can.
It fucks with your head. But it's meant to, it keeps you confused and doubt if its really happening.

Also, the confusion and self doubt will take over your head and your life. Other things will happen, you will let things slide because you don't know what to make it or you don't want to believe it.
Please please believe us when we say it will only get worse if you stay with him. You're doing the right thing by choosing you.
Keep posting if you need. If you need to get it out.

OP all those lovely things he is and does make him sound more like an abuser.
What advice would you give your best friend if she told you her partner sometimes gets angry and punches her, that releases his negative emotions, she is ok with it, it doesn’t hurt too much and he is very apologetic afterwards, the rest of the time he is lovely?

Nobody would fall in love with an abuser if they were abusive on the first date. All abusers are perfectly capable of being pleasant, kind, caring and generous.

They mostly seem able to control their extreme behaviours at work and in society. They might bully, scream at and hit their partner, but they manage not to do this to their employers, clients, staff or general public.

If you were happy and secure in the relationship you wouldn't be concerned and posting here. Listen to your instincts.

Who the fuck phones up a FWB to come over when they're in a relationship? Why would you do that? Why would you then make your partner suffer by telling them you did that? What in the name of God is wrong with him?

You're not an idiot, anyone can come across a wrong'un and it's not always easy to get out, especially if you have mental health problems etc.

The man that listens to me have a little cry down the phone when I'm having a tough time with the kids and then sends me flowers. Takes me out for surprise lunches when we'd not seen each other for a while, rearranging things at work to spend time with me in the day when Im free as the kids are at school. The man who understands I have kids and that they do come first. The man who sends me messages telling me he cant get me off his mind. The man I can chat to for hours, who makes me laugh, is constantly showing me affection, touching my hand, my waist, my hair like he cant get enough. The man I opened up to who didn't run away.

I know it seems hard to believe but all these men do this. The charm is so they can keep you around to fuck with you and use you, and subject you to their barbarity. If they were sadistic and screwing with us at all times we wouldn't stay as long, or go back to them. So it goes in a cycle of abuse, charm-cruelty-apology-charm-cruelty-apology etc. They use intermittent reinforcement to keep us on the string so they can get what they want from us, sex and ego strokes, or even getting off on hurting us. feelingishealing.co.uk/intermittent-reinforcement/

What if it is all just a genuine misunderstanding and I'm throwing it away.

So he subjects you to sexual barbarism and it is all a mistake? You know this is bullshit by how he apologized afterwards. And his cheating you/ planning to cheat on you, and telling you so as to control your behaviour and stop you confronting him in future for fear he will cheat, was chosen and calculated.

And if all of this is some mistake- he shags you at a completely inappropriate time, is violent sexually, and is compelled to call a woman to shag if you do something he doesn't like- such a person would be some sort of crazed, intellectually subnormal, severely brain damaged animal. In fact it is an insult to most people with intellectual impairment, brain damage, or animals to compare him to them. That isn't someone you want to be with. And you know this isn't the case anyway, due to how he acts in the charm phase.

I hope you do continue/update this thread because we all care and want to know what happens- we're terrified. Please let us know when you end it with him. xxx

Exactly what @NoMoreDickheads has said.

OP, I would add that no one thinks you are an idiot. I think some of the people commenting have either been through this or had loved ones who have and it’s easier for someone who is not in the situation to see it for what it is.

You have to remember this:

• no one says he is a monster, but he needs help and you cannot help him. He has to go through the process for himself
• the process of recovery starts with recognising there is a problem and desire to sort it
• it is unlikely he realises he has a problem if you accept his behaviour as normal. YOU feed his problem by enabling his behaviour. Only you (and sadly maybe others after you) leaving him will lead him to realise there is a problem with his behaviour.

Straight after the panic attack/having sex thing, he asked what had caused it. I talked about it (it was to do with my ex), he listened, he held me, he looked after me. The next day he had to leave me on the verge of having another panic attack about seeing my ex, because my kids were coming home and I didn't want them to see him.
He said that got to him and was hard for him to leave me like that. That's when he got drunk and called fwb.
The next evening he came round (at his suggestion) so we could talk. I was very honest with him about my anxiety and things that he hadn't known about before. He was behaving strange, wouldn't look me in the eye, didn't speak, just listened to me rambling on. I actually thought he looked like he was about to cry. I thought he didn't want to be with me so I told him it was over and to leave. Then as he was leaving he said something stupid like 'you have no idea' and just left.
At this point I was done with him. I'd poured my heart out to him and been completely honest and he had walked away. I was done with all the drama. Later he tried to call, but I didn't answer. He sent this long email about how it was hard for him to hear about my anxiety etc as he cant fix it. He likes to be in control and he cant control this which puts him out of his comfort zone. He then admitted what happened with the fwb. He said he was ashamed, sorry etc He had done it because he was upset and drunk and admitted he turned to sex cos he was struggling with his feelings and being helpless that he had to leave me when really he wanted to stay with me and protect me (ie punch my ex in the face). I know it sounds ridiculous now reading that back. He nearly had sex with another woman because he couldn't 'protect' me. I know.
I guess it was all just a load of BS or whatever but things went back to normal. He was caring and supportive when I was struggling with the kids by myself, home schooling, fitting in my hours for work, keeping on top of housework etc during lockdown.
Then the other day the thing with his Dad happened and afterwards it did make me question things again.
If he hit me I would walk. If he got angry, was jealous, controlling towards me etc I'd get it. But what is this? Being a bit of an immature dick on occasion, admitting he nearly cheated (which isn't nice but I've forgiven/moved on from that) and being a bit rough with sex sometimes? I know how he behaved isn't right but its the calling it abuse thing that I struggle with. And the suggestions that it will get worse/lead to more. I do feel safe with him. I'm not frightened of him. But I do feel something isn't right.
Anyway, I've emailed him. Said some of how I'm feeling and that I need a break to sort my head. Not the end but I guess it's a start.
Thank you for listening to all this shit and your advice x

He's told me that if I really do feel that way about him then he agrees we shouldn't be together as he doesn't ever want me to feel that way. So I guess that is it for now...

When I said it will get worse, I mean that if he disrespects you now and you 'move on' from that like it's ok when you feel it's not, he will up the behaviour. See what else he can do that is ok for him.
From what you've written, it does seem like he's controlling. Rough sex is hurting you, you said you didn't stop it because 'he needed that'
That is abusive. Where are your needs taken into account?
Other posters have suggested some good reading material. Take some time to yourself. Time to get your head clear and read about these abusive behaviours and see how many boxes he ticks.
There is something in you protecting you. Listen to that. Trust yourself.

no one says he is a monster

@Littlewing80 Not a monster, as unfortunately sadistic twisted men obsessed with sex are not unheard of. But a nasty creature.

Straight after the panic attack/having sex thing, he asked what had caused it. I talked about it (it was to do with my ex), he listened, he held me, he looked after me.

They do, it creates the process called trauma bonding. For instance, a man who has hit a woman will tend her wounds afterwards and kiss her etc. He did not treat you well, and he knew that- it was a violation and you know that, that's why you posted about it at the time.

After the abuse the abuser knows he has to win his partner round/gaslight her into thinking he isn't what he's just shown himself to be. He is the only person there to comfort her immediately after a traumatic experience, and so it creates trauma bonding/Stockholm syndrome. www.talkspace.com/blog/trauma-bonding/

What you describe is horrible to hear OP, how you are in the thick of it, you still believe he is sincere.

I actually thought he looked like he was about to cry.

Yes, my ex could also fake tears or fake being on the verge of tears. They do it to make you believe they're truly cut up that they hurt you. But it's all manipulation to keep you hanging on.

When as he was leaving he said something stupid like 'you have no idea' and just left.

I hope you are starting to get some idea. Not a word is sincere with these guys, or we will never know what is a throwaway comment and what is an attempt at manipulation. With this comment I think he sought to leave you on a 'cliffhanger' of anxiety worrying what he meant, to add to the impact of the blow he was planning to deal about his cheating.

He sent this long email about how it was hard for him to hear about my anxiety etc as he cant fix it. He likes to be in control and he cant control this which puts him out of his comfort zone. He then admitted what happened with the fwb.

I.e. he said he doesn't really want to hear about your feelings, because it upset him and might lead to him cheating, as might him having to leave because your kids are coming home and they are still your top priority thankfully, not him. Unfortunately, a lot of women end up that these men become their top priority even above their children, because of the emotional manipulation.

But what is this?

Manipulation, psychological and sexual abuse/sadism. Part of your feeling of wrongness is 'cognitive dissonance' www.thenarcissisticpersonality.com/cognitive-dissonance/ because you're trying to convince yourself he's a nice guy, when his behaviour shows you he's not (nice words are easy to say, especially when they get him what he wants.)

^Anyway, I've emailed him. Said some of how I'm feeling and that I need a break to sort my head. Not the end but I guess it's a start.
Thank you for listening to all this shit and your advice^

Well done OP, keep going please! I will be delighted to hear when you have left this sicko behind for good. I'll donate to a charity of your choice.

He's told me that if I really do feel that way about him then he agrees we shouldn't be together as he doesn't ever want me to feel that way. So I guess that is it for now

@Lorelai101 This is all manipulative shit designed to screw with you and convince you he's oh-so-adorable and selflessly has your best interests at heart. Please block him on your phone, Facebook, email, everything. xxx

OP you should block him from contacting you. He will come back all charming and remorseful saying he can’t be without you. If you give him a chance, the abuse will all start again and ramp up.
Don’t allow him in your house if he turns up unannounced 💐