Using sex to deal with feelings

[Lorelai101]

Just before lockdown something happened with the guy I'm seeing. I wont go into it, but he handled a situation badly. People said he was abusive and I was vulnerable and should walk away, but I really don't see it like that at all. I feel very safe with him and if I was concerned about abuse I would walk away.

But the problem is that he seems to have some sort of default mode of sex. In the above 'situation' basically I was upset and he used sex to try and make me feel better. Then, we were working through some things and he was upset, got drunk and called his ex fwb and invited her over. He says when she got there nothing happened as he realised it was stupid and sent her home but his first reaction was to have sex.
He has a tough relationship with his Dad who has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer. He didn't want to talk about it, which I get, but he initiated sex which was quite rough like he was letting his emotions out through sex. (I was ok with it, if I wasn't I would have stopped him) Afterwards he was really apologetic and worried he had hurt me or was too rough with me. We had sex again later and he was gentle.

I don't know if I'm reading too much into the whole thing? But I'm worried its going to be a problem if his main way of communicating is through sex. We do talk, its lot like we don't communicate at all but... I don't know...I don't even know if any of this makes sense.. :(

People said he was abusive and I was vulnerable and should walk away

Usually loved ones are right OP. I was with someone awful, some of my friends could see it as clear as day and my family were terrified at how his lack of caring for my well being would end.

Why would he even tell me about it if he was hiding something? I get he messed up

He was saying 'oh noes, I cheated on you/nearly cheated on you because I'm a troubled soul, I can't help myself.' This is to make you excuse some of the dodgy stuff he has done and will go on to do. If you believe it, it's effectively his 'get out of jail free' card.

I wont go into it, but he handled a situation badly. People said he was abusive and I was vulnerable and should walk away, but I really don't see it like that at all. I feel very safe with him and if I was concerned about abuse I would walk away. But the problem is that he seems to have some sort of default mode of sex. In the above 'situation' basically I was upset and he used sex to try and make me feel better.

He didn't rape me. If it come across that way, I've not worded it correctly. He didn't do anything I didn't consent to.

What I mean by rape is this bit, not the rough sex incident, though that was bad enough. You admit you didn't want sex, he 'used sex to try and make you feel better' i.e you didn't want it. You would just've wanted a cuddle or to talk about things or whatever helps you when you're upset.

At the very least, it was sexual coercion. You weren't in the mood and it wasn't what you wanted.

It won't end here.

Every single person that has made a comment has warned you to walk.
They are not doing it to unnecessarily ruin your evening.
A lot come from experience and others come from seeing it from an outside perspective.
You are in an easier position to leave than you will be later on.
Look back at his past relationships, see if they are running a similar pattern if you like.
But I strongly advise you take on these people's advice.

I know it doesn’t feel like rape. I’ve been thrrre. However. please take note of of the disparity between your feelings and his and don’t discount your own perspective. It really matters. Please understand he was all about him and not at all about you in this instance .

Why have you posted if you think it's all ok?
The reason he is messed up it's the exDr reason why you need to 'throw it all away'
You're already defending him and you sound like you are the woman that can save him. You aren't and you can't.
He's manipulating you.

Sorry typo, exact reason.
Hope you're ok Op but he can see you coming a mile off. That is not said to loser you, i think people have replied on here because they've experienced this kind of man.

people have replied on here because they've experienced this kind of man.

I've experienced rapey men/rapists. This bloke seems particularly nasty and weird tho.

@Lorelai101 How you describe it as his 'default response' remind me of a couple of threads.

I've only been on here since about September and one of the most shocking threads was called 'husband's go to response in moments of anger' or something like that, I can't find it now. There was another woman posted a similar thread a few months later.

What the husbands were doing was putting their hands round the women's throats. The women felt this was just something the men did without having any control over it. They were in denial about what was happening.

The men have complete control over it- they have complete control over their arms, just like your bloke has over his c*ck and whether he rapes, coerces or is rough with you.

OP, I have a hunch you've posted because you're confused about how this is making you feel? You asked if it was making any sense in your first post.
People have replied because it does make sense and now you've got the replies and it's confirming that deep down feeling you have that it's not ok?
I say these as questions because it's a guess on how you might be feeling.
Non of these replies are a criticism on you, maybe that's why you're defensive.
A man like that can choose any woman that's vulnerable, and thank goodness you have come on mumsnet.
Please be careful and keep safe from him

He's using sex as a weapon to manipulate you with. This is extremely controlling and dangerous behaviour from him. He might not have raped you, but he absolutely could do it in the future. You need to leave this relationship behind and start afresh. There's a lot of great advice on this thread. You can't save this man. You can only save yourself from further abuse. Best of luck.

IME, yes there are men out there who use sex as a way to work out their personal angst, and for some reason, think it will make another person who is sad or under pressure feel better if they shag them, however, these are just the kind of men you want to be avoiding in life. Not the kind of man who is fixable as they would rather just have sex than fix and address themselves, so don't even try.

@Aerial2020 I imagine OP wasn't sure about the comments such as someone said Find some self respect and never contact him again! which kind of implies OP doesn't have self respect, and the other post

He has chosen you for a reason cos you seem to have no or loose boundaries around his behaviour. Men like this find the vulnerable women.

I can see how someone could take the first statement there as pejorative.

I get what people meant by these statements though, but I can see why OP might take them as saying she is doing something wrong.

You're right that these vultures prey on the vulnerable, though.

OP, a relationship should make your life easier, not harder. When you're in a crisis of some sort, your partner should help, not add to it.

You're not tied to this guy, you don't have DC with him, you can just split up now. You shouldn't be on here agonizing.

Maybe he does have an unhealthy attitude to sex and emotions, maybe he's just not a nice person. I don't know. But his attitude to emotions and sex are making you unhappy and worried. You don't need that in your life. There are plenty of decent men in the world.

The fact he ran straight to another woman when you had problems is a HUGE red flag. Do you want to be worried that every time you have an argument he's going to cheat on you? What a miserable existence.

I do know it's not ok. I am concerned. That's why I posted. I wanted to check I wasn't overreacting.
I seem to have come across as needy and pathetic, letting a man walk all over me. That isn't me.
I'm not sitting around waiting for a knight in shining armour to come and rescue me. I learnt a long time ago that nobody can save me. I am in control of my own happiness.
But maybe that's just what I want to think about myself and I am in fact relying on a man, that I don't want to let go...
It's hard to hear these things. Be called vulnerable. A target. Have people basically say he's 'picked' me cos he could see I was a gullible twat.
I'm not defending what he has done. I know it's not right. But we've dealt with him calling his fwb, we've moved past that. I've forgiven him and made that decision to move forward.

I don't even know anymore.
:(
It's not like I see him, he does something sexually inappropriate, then leaves. The rest of the time we do have a good, happy, normal relationship. I was just concerned about his attitude towards sex that small percentage of the time.

Consciously or not, he is teaching you that the way to have a harmonious relationship and resolve any issues with him is to have sex, his way, on his terms.

Can you see that?

It worries me that when people have been shocked by his behaviour and made that clear on here, your immediate response is to be very defensive.

That's what happens when you're in a toxic relationship - people around you (like your friends who said they're concerned) and even strangers (like us lot) point it out and the two people in the relationship double down on their 'us against the world' codependency.

I say that as someone who has been in that relationship before and felt I had to defend my partner whatever he did.

I just want you to know people aren't attacking you by being concerned about you or flagging up concerns about his behaviour. You know deep down this is very concerning as you've posted about it.

Hopefully you can try to take on board some advice from those of us who wish we had asked for people's thoughts and taken them on board when we were in similar dynamics

No one called you a twat.
You haven't come across as needy or pathetic.
I'm sorry if I upset you, I do think he's chosen you because he's seen something in you that can forgive this behaviour. We all are at times and we all need support at times. And you have posted to look after yourself.
It's good you've posted. Please keep doing so.

That meant to say we all are vulnerable at times

Sorry cross posted there.

OP do you think that a woman has to be weak or pathetic to be in unhealthy or toxic or abusive relationships?

Because that isn't the case.

I'm the textbook 'last person you'd ever think would let someone do xyz to them' yet by bad luck / fate / a perfect storm of my upbringing and my genetics... whatever it was, I've been in a couple of abusive relationships.

Straight A student, gobby as fuck, over achiever, business owner... I'm not what someone might look at and label a victim. That doesn't mean I haven't been a victim of certain behaviours.

So we get it, I promise. People aren't implying you're weak from what you've said, they're suggesting that for whatever reason this particular relationship has gotten under your skin and has started to shift your boundaries and make you question what you're ok with and what you aren't.

I felt I couldn't possibly be in a toxic or abusive relationship because I was too gobby / wouldn't put up with that and so I stayed way too long because I wanted to prove everyone wrong - if it was abuse, I would just leave right? If he treated me like shit I would just leave right? But it's so much more nuanced and multi layered than that.

The shark cage analogy fitted my own personal situation well but I totally understand it's not a one size fits all thing.

And a man's attitude towards sex is never just a minor thing. I don't say that flippantly. It's so loaded with their ideas of intimacy, respect, coercion, consent, power, equality - the list goes on - that it's indicative of them as a person.

For me, I was ashamed. Ashamed I had let it get this far because I wasn't a victim either. I could stop it. I was an intelligent woman. No one really knew all the awful details cos who would believe I could let someone do that.
If it gets too far, you can't stop it. Not without help.
You can walk away from him now.

@Aerial2020 same here

I get it. I have my answer. I know I need to end it.
I actually posted on here before about what he did when I was upset. People were saying they felt sick reading it and telling me to leave him. The comments really upset me and I wasn't prepared to hear it at the time. I thought everyone was overreacting. The post got reported and removed, like my life was actually just some kind of sick joke.
But I hear it now. I need to walk away from him. Thanks for taking time to reply.
xxx

It's not like I see him, he does something sexually inappropriate, then leaves. The rest of the time we do have a good, happy, normal relationship.

No-one abusive (and this is what this is) tends to be abusive 24/7, if only because they know they have to behave sometimes or the other person won't stick around. In fact, a lot of these guys really turn on the charm when they aren't acting dodgy, to keep you tolerating them despite the nasty sex, rape etc.

I'm not defending what he has done. I know it's not right. But we've dealt with him calling his fwb, we've moved past that. I've forgiven him and made that decision to move forward.

How often are you going to forgive him? You need to set boundaries to yourself and to him. Say that you won't put up with his cheating on you/msging other girls for sex again, if it happens again then it's the end. And mean it, and act on it if/when he does it again.

The rape and sadistic sex, you should never see him again for doing that, anyway.

But I hear it now. I need to walk away from him. Thanks for taking time to reply.

We didn't just say this stuff for the sake of it. We want you to act on it.

So you're going to block him on everything and never see him again? Please let us know when you've done it.

I'd be concerned if you meet him face to face to do it. He is sexually violent.

I hope @mumsnet pays attention to this. That's twice recently I've seen vulnerable posters say their posts were removed and it made them feel disbelieved/devalued when they needed to talk or were talking about it for the first time.

OP, so sorry to hear about all this.

But I hear it now. I need to walk away from him.

I wish I'd had Mumsnet when I was young, OP. I'm sorry your first post was removed.

You might have a read of The Gift of Fear - I think Gavin somebody and Why Does He Do That? Lundy Bancroft. Gavin de Becker. Basically it's not you, it's him.

You've spotted the things that aren't normal and you're walking away. Much better to do it now rather than later.

@Lorelai101

I get it. I have my answer. I know I need to end it. I actually posted on here before about what he did when I was upset. People were saying they felt sick reading it and telling me to leave him. The comments really upset me and I wasn't prepared to hear it at the time. I thought everyone was overreacting. The post got reported and removed, like my life was actually just some kind of sick joke. But I hear it now. I need to walk away from him. Thanks for taking time to reply. xxx

Are you prepared to say here what it was? If not, is it because you don't want to hear people telling you this again? I'm not asking this out of nosiness but if you are avoiding painting the whole picture because you don't want to hear what people say...that should tell you something

I will leave.
I'm not just gonna send him a quick text message and block him. Its hard :( But I will sort out what I'm going to do and end things with him. He wont get violent if we talk face to face. He's really not like that. I'm not fearing for my safety. I'm just not comfortable with his behaviour sometimes...

I'm sure you will say exactly what everyone else did at the time. I didn't go into it because I didn't want my post to be removed again before I'd got any replies, so I guess it doesn't matter now...

I have self harmed in the past. I was upset about something and started to have a panic attack and felt like I needed to hurt myself to calm myself down. He could see I wanted to hurt myself so he bit me on the shoulder and started biting/kissing my neck to distract me. It did distract me, I started to calm down, got turned on, we had sex. I felt weird about it afterwards, that he had done that. People were saying he was getting off seeing me upset... I don't think it was like that. We talked about it, he knows he handled it wrong. He was just trying to help (in his own messed up way) and take control of the situation. He'd never seen me like that before so maybe he just panicked. Sometimes I still feel like it wasn't that big of a deal. I did enjoy it. If I'd told him to stop I'm 99.9% sure he would have, but I didn't. But I do keep coming back to it in my mind. It does make me feel uncomfortable and a bit f*cked up to be honest that I let him to that. And then with the other things as well... I know it's not the way a normal person would behave.