Dad has no empathy or social skills - why?

[LovePeonies]

My Dad has really poor social skills. I have a whole lifetime of experiences I could write about (!) but I will try and be brief.

He constantly judges and criticises other people. For example if we were in a restaurant and there was someone overweight he would make a comment like "look over there at them stuffing their face". Or he could see someone in the street and would say something about their appearance. He mainly criticises women which is a great example he has given to me and my sister growing up (!) It is really, really rude and hurtful and we always tell him to stop being so horrible but he never does. My DSis, DB, DM and I avoid going to places with him as much as we can. However, my sister and I went on a walk with him during lockdown as we knew there would not be many people around. However he instead criticised people's homes, cars and front gardens - "their house looks a mess, so rundown", "their front garden looks stupid". It is summer, a lot of people would had their windows fully open so they likely heard him. If I or anyone else tell him to stop being rude or to be quiet he raises his voice deliberately to embarrass us and tells us to not tell him what to do. He does not comprehend that other people can hear him or that if he must make such horrible comments he should whisper or lower his voice.

Even aside from the cruel comments he makes, he is uncomfortable in all social situations too like when we went to a family wedding he wanted to go home straight after the ceremony, or when we visit relatives he will either stay home or make us leave after very a short time. When we had family or friends visiting our home (pre-lockdown) he would always go out. He is also really poor at making eye contact and struggles to make conversation. If I ever try and talk to him about something I just get "hmm" in response and that's it and I can tell he is not really listening to me. He doesn't participate in any of our family celebrations like he never comes to restaurants when we are celebrating a family member's birthday, graduation, engagement, etc. It is really quite hurtful.

I just do not understand the cause of it. I cannot interpret why he acts that way. I understand that you could just say he is a mean person but I feel like that paired with the lack of social skills implies something more like an actual condition?

I’m sure Autism has crossed your mind. He sounds like the negative comments are almost compulsive. Not sure what you can do though as he clearly has some demand avoidance and won’t be told.

Have you asked him why? He will be very aware of it.

He sounds very unhappy and the raising his voice to embarrass you is manipulative.

I know he's your dad but how is it being in his company for you? I wouldn't be able for that sort of constant negativity.

I’m not sure that autism causes loud and rude comments about women but not about Men.

Does he behave like this at events that he wants to go to? or only at event that the family want him to go to and he doesn't personally enjoy?

How are his social skills at work ? Has he been fired from many jobs because of his rudeness ?

You've probably done this before, OP, but can you sit him down and have a serious chat and say:
'If I were someone that you've never met and started making comments like......'
be very sure to give examples, like: 'you've got quite a lot of baldness here, but some men your age have kept more of their hair, it might mean that they've looked after themselves better and ate a better diet, also... can you see over there in the corner, someone hasn't painted the windowsill as well as they could have, it's shoddy work, probably something you've done, was it?'
Obviously being you, you'd not say this to anyone else, but he would.
The intention is not hurt but to draw attention to his insulting behaviour.
*It's a good idea to state after you have finished the attack example, say you don't mean it, but that's how his comments are received. Comments can be cutting, especially if another person is insecure and had a lifetime/childhood of abuse, which is more common than we think.
Give us an update when you finish, if you actually manage to get through to him.

@ShouldWeChangeTheBulb

I’m sure Autism has crossed your mind. He sounds like the negative comments are almost compulsive. Not sure what you can do though as he clearly has some demand avoidance and won’t be told.

I have wondered about Autism because my uncle (his DB) has been diagnosed with Autism as an adult and I know that it can run in families. I agree that on paper it seems like he may have Autism. However I know lots of people with Autism and none of them make mean comments about others.

I agree that the negative comments seem compulsive, it is like his brain is hardwired to find fault in others and he has to say those negative comments as soon as he thinks them.

My Dad is a bit like this and my counsellor suggested he might be autistic. He seems generally unaware of socially acceptable behaviour, is emotionally cold and very hard to have a conversation with (unless he wants something). He doesn’t seem to be able to read non verbal cues and is inappropriate. He’ll launch shocking political opinions at you in a tirade that was uninvited and have no idea why people avoid him.

He once nearly got beat up at a concert while constantly loudly “fat shaming” a pregnant young woman who he was disgusted at having to sit beside. It was awful. I once nearly blacked out and was leaning up against a wall for support and he tried carrying on a normal conversation with me like nothing was happening. If you pull him up on his behaviour he sulks like a small child and says he’s constantly anxious as he always feels he’s doing the wrong thing.

He wasn’t like this in the past. Certainly as a small child, although he was never especially affectionate or physically/verbally loving, he was always well mannered, polite and respectful.
My mother says he was a lovely man when they dated and married and it was after about 10 years he slowly started to change. I sometimes wonder if it’s some sort of a “brain event”. One of the rudest people I ever met had an undetected bleed in her brain affecting personality. We all fell out with her then felt terrible as she genuinely couldn’t help it.

Has your Dad been this way forever? You really have my sympathies. I know how complex it is emotionally to have a father like this.

@tiredanddangerous

Have you asked him why? He will be very aware of it.

I have but he doesn't really give a proper answer. I just think he thinks of himself superior and like it is his right to be able to do or say what he wants so he does not think anything of it and doesn't think he is doing anything wrong. He is very hard to talk to about things as he will either not really give an answer or he will get defensive and angry.

My Dad had different issues but, well, long story short, when I took a look at his childhood - which he never really spoke about - I got a much better idea of WHY and was able to have some compassion for him. Don't get me wrong, it still got to me and he didn't change, but I was able to accept it and deal with it just a bit better.
Techniques for dealing with children whose (counterproductive) behaviour stems from their environment can be helpful though they have to be refined a bit for use with someone decades older!

Problem with his self-esteem, perhaps; inferiority complex that makes him keen to point out others' faults, to get a brief moment of feeling like the cool one? And when you criticise, he feels like you are criticising him as an entire person, rather than criticising one changeable behaviour, so he gets defensive, or tries not to think about it as the thought is too scary that he might be horrible? What were his parents like? Might some of it be learned behaviour?

Some autistic people are nice, some are not nice. His compulsion to speak his mind and social awkwardness could well be autistic traits, but for all those thoughts to be mean and superior would just be him. It is tricky, because being self-aware and changing habits can be really difficult for autistic people. But just because it's harder for us doesn't mean it's not important.

@Windmillwhirl

He sounds very unhappy and the raising his voice to embarrass you is manipulative.

I know he's your dad but how is it being in his company for you? I wouldn't be able for that sort of constant negativity.

He is definitely really manipulative. He loves to play the victim.

Once my DM, DB, DSis and I had tickets for the theatre. He had been asked many, many times at the time of booking and leading up to the day whether he wanted to attend so we could purchase a ticket for him. He said no every time, just as we expected as he hates things like that. The day comes and we are leaving to catch the train and he starts up his act. Saying how cruel we are going without him, we never think of him, he is going to go out as he deserves to have plans so someone will have to stay home to look after the dogs, etc. I call his bluff and say he can have my ticket and I'll stay home and straight away he realises he can't act like the poor, mistreated husband/father and so his mood switches back to normal and he says "no it's fine, I don't want to go".

He does this everytime we are going anywhere. From what I can tell he does this for one of two reasons: one is to ruin our day out by making us feel guilty or or two to make us feel like we have to grovel to earn back his forgiveness because we are so cruel which he uses as leverage to get us to do things for him.

It is exhausting. I always feel low and down after spending too much time around him as the negativity is almost contagious.

@SHAR0N

I’m not sure that autism causes loud and rude comments about women but not about Men.

Does he behave like this at events that he wants to go to? or only at event that the family want him to go to and he doesn't personally enjoy?

How are his social skills at work ? Has he been fired from many jobs because of his rudeness ?

He doesn't go to events ever so I wouldn't know, but when he goes to a shop he wants to go to he does act the same way.

He works from home with his own business and has done for probably 20 years. I don't think he would cope working with others. I know some of the jobs he had when he was younger he would quit for silly reasons.

@JaffaJaffJaffpussycatpuss

You've probably done this before, OP, but can you sit him down and have a serious chat and say: 'If I were someone that you've never met and started making comments like......' be very sure to give examples, like: 'you've got quite a lot of baldness here, but some men your age have kept more of their hair, it might mean that they've looked after themselves better and ate a better diet, also... can you see over there in the corner, someone hasn't painted the windowsill as well as they could have, it's shoddy work, probably something you've done, was it?' Obviously being you, you'd not say this to anyone else, but he would. The intention is not hurt but to draw attention to his insulting behaviour. *It's a good idea to state after you have finished the attack example, say you don't mean it, but that's how his comments are received. Comments can be cutting, especially if another person is insecure and had a lifetime/childhood of abuse, which is more common than we think. Give us an update when you finish, if you actually manage to get through to him.

I have done this exact thing before to him and he answers that he doesn't get what people say or think of him. I agree with his answer, I don't think he cares what people think of him at all. The only exception is when he can do some small good deed for someone he loves to be seen as a hero and will talk about it endlessly. Little things we all do like hand in lost wallets, help someone short reach something off the top shelf in a supermarket, etc he will use as an indicator that he is a nice person and will almost brag about it.

@NameChange84

My Dad is a bit like this and my counsellor suggested he might be autistic. He seems generally unaware of socially acceptable behaviour, is emotionally cold and very hard to have a conversation with (unless he wants something). He doesn’t seem to be able to read non verbal cues and is inappropriate. He’ll launch shocking political opinions at you in a tirade that was uninvited and have no idea why people avoid him.

He once nearly got beat up at a concert while constantly loudly “fat shaming” a pregnant young woman who he was disgusted at having to sit beside. It was awful. I once nearly blacked out and was leaning up against a wall for support and he tried carrying on a normal conversation with me like nothing was happening. If you pull him up on his behaviour he sulks like a small child and says he’s constantly anxious as he always feels he’s doing the wrong thing.

He wasn’t like this in the past. Certainly as a small child, although he was never especially affectionate or physically/verbally loving, he was always well mannered, polite and respectful.
My mother says he was a lovely man when they dated and married and it was after about 10 years he slowly started to change. I sometimes wonder if it’s some sort of a “brain event”. One of the rudest people I ever met had an undetected bleed in her brain affecting personality. We all fell out with her then felt terrible as she genuinely couldn’t help it.

Has your Dad been this way forever? You really have my sympathies. I know how complex it is emotionally to have a father like this.

My Dad sounds very similar to yours too so I wonder if it may be autism that may explain, even just partially, his behaviour.

My Dad has always been like this. I don't know what he was like as a child but when my parents met in their early 20s he was like this, it's just my Mum didn't see any of the red flags as he probably masked some of it until they were married.

He does this everytime we are going anywhere. From what I can tell he does this for one of two reasons: one is to ruin our day out by making us feel guilty or or two to make us feel like we have to grovel to earn back his forgiveness because we are so cruel which he uses as leverage to get us to do things for him

He’s just manipulative and passive aggressive then. It’s not a disorder, it’s part of his character and personality.

I’d be going low contact with him. You don’t deserve to be treated like that.

@user0002846727

My Dad had different issues but, well, long story short, when I took a look at his childhood - which he never really spoke about - I got a much better idea of WHY and was able to have some compassion for him. Don't get me wrong, it still got to me and he didn't change, but I was able to accept it and deal with it just a bit better. Techniques for dealing with children whose (counterproductive) behaviour stems from their environment can be helpful though they have to be refined a bit for use with someone decades older!

My Dad did have a really difficult childhood so I do empathise with him. I have found that helpful to try and be more compassionate but it is still hard. I wish he had the insight to see how his behaviour affects his family and perhaps try and see a therapist to talk through it all but he would never do that.

@ravenmum

Problem with his self-esteem, perhaps; inferiority complex that makes him keen to point out others' faults, to get a brief moment of feeling like the cool one? And when you criticise, he feels like you are criticising him as an entire person, rather than criticising one changeable behaviour, so he gets defensive, or tries not to think about it as the thought is too scary that he might be horrible? What were his parents like? Might some of it be learned behaviour?

Yes, you are probably right. I think he does have low self-esteem and likes to put other people down so he feels better about himself. Often the things he criticises others for are 'flaws' that he himself has.

I think my Dad is a more diluted version of his Dad from the stories I have heard. His Dad was violent which my Dad isn't and has never been.

@whatyouwalkingbout

Some autistic people are nice, some are not nice. His compulsion to speak his mind and social awkwardness could well be autistic traits, but for all those thoughts to be mean and superior would just be him. It is tricky, because being self-aware and changing habits can be really difficult for autistic people. But just because it's harder for us doesn't mean it's not important.

Ohh that makes sense. So the compulsion to always speak his mind could be attributed to be an autistic trait, but the thoughts on his mind are just him.

@SHAR0N

He does this everytime we are going anywhere. From what I can tell he does this for one of two reasons: one is to ruin our day out by making us feel guilty or or two to make us feel like we have to grovel to earn back his forgiveness because we are so cruel which he uses as leverage to get us to do things for him

He’s just manipulative and passive aggressive then. It’s not a disorder, it’s part of his character and personality.

I’d be going low contact with him. You don’t deserve to be treated like that.

Hmm, it seems so. I guess I was hopeful that there would be some kind of answer out there for why he acts like that so that I wouldn't have to accept that he just treats us poorly.

It's hard because other times he can be a good Dad in his own way. Like if I ever need DIY done or a lift in the car he will do that. But the turning point for me was my graduation where he was making rude comments about people and then raised his voice to embarrass me and it happened to be right in front of a small group of my university lecturers and university friends. I can never forgive that as I was humiliated.

Sorry I phrased that wrong, I mean when I was a small child I can’t remember him being like this. I don’t know much about his childhood except that he was very spoiled and doted on but also expected to work exceptionally hard from childhood at school and in his parent’s businesses. But he was very, very spoiled by his mother and other older relatives and treated like a prince.

But yes he definitely wasn’t always like this, which is why I don’t tend to think it’s autism. It took about 10 years for any red flags to show in my parents marriage.

I did meet another similar older man (in his 70s) who was very rude to me personally and negative and took everything people said apart. He came across as really really unhappy and miserable.

I’m still leaning to something neurological with my Dad. I don’t know about yours but mine is also quite devoid of any emotion. Like, how other fathers would kill anyone who would try to hurt their “little girl” or have those lovely moments of pride and affection and love, my Dad isn’t like that. He’d never say “you look nice” to any of us or, I could have walked across the lounge in a ball gown and he’d never ask why/where I was going. And like yours doesn’t seem to listen if you initiate conversation. It’s like I’m boring him just by attempting to talk.

Mine also can’t detect when he’s being scammed or follow storylines in films etc. It’s like he doesn’t get facial expression or emotional intricacies.

He is not necessarily autistic.

I know someone like this who is just like your dad and doesn't care about offending people in public and it's also done in a very obvious deep booming voice (he's 6ft 5in).

Because no one ever picks him up about it he just gets more
confident and clever doing it.

However get him on his own or in a group that do/would stand up to him he is very uncomfortable and quite pathetic.

You come across as a very nice person, and I'm sorry to say but I think your dad is a resentful bully.

@ravenmum

Problem with his self-esteem, perhaps; inferiority complex that makes him keen to point out others' faults, to get a brief moment of feeling like the cool one? And when you criticise, he feels like you are criticising him as an entire person, rather than criticising one changeable behaviour, so he gets defensive, or tries not to think about it as the thought is too scary that he might be horrible? What were his parents like? Might some of it be learned behaviour?

Ravenmum has got it one here. I wanted to see if you had done what I suggested before saying what Ravenmum had. Your dad may have some autistic traits, but my brother's neurotrypical girlfriend does what your dad does. The people most critical of others are almost always the most critical of themselves, then they belittle others to fill the void they created to feel more superior. It's called an ego and it's false confidence because they don't want to believe they are as insecure as they are because they will see it as a weakness. Whether you can get through to a person who is like this in hope that they will listen depends on their ego too because they will have to allow themselves to comprehend that you might have something worth listening to that they might not know. People can change, but only they can do it, no amount of coaxing from you can, unfortunately however badly they are affecting others. It's important to know that all people (excluding perhaps people that don't understand social cues etc.) that are hurting. It doesn't look like it because they don't want people to know, they want people to think they have it all sorted out and know everything. There are different levels of it. It is annoying though, I have several in my family. My mum was classically like your Dad in my childhood but is lesser so now... her Father was even worse and she copied. Some people call it narcissism but we have to be careful it doesn't become an identity, because I am a firm believer that people can change as I have stated and are not born feeling superior, but 'good enough' and a healthy view of themselves.

My DD is very similar, even the wanting to be a hero, for example a girl scraped his car and he was all don't worry about it, my sisters of the same thing accidentally on her birthday and he shouted at her and made her cry! The only difference is my DD would be sociable but I can see he's annoying people and they don't really like his company. He constantly criticises people and I think it is to make himself feel better

I've got a relative like this too. I put it down to a crushingly low self esteem, so he has to trash others to make himself feel superior, or at least worthy.

It's most hurtful when he trashes me, to my face, but then clearly brags about how amazing I am to other people. He never says a kind word to me.

I spend as little time as I can with him.