AIBU - Black Lives Matter

[Melandri]

Hi all,

This is a highly sensitive issue I know and I’m not looking for opinions on the topic or to spark any confrontation between people, I just need to know if you think I’m being unreasonable in the discussions I’ve had with my partner.

I am fairly well read on the current situation and firmly support Black Lives Matter. He isn’t and is adamant that “they’ve phrased it wrong” and is in the camp that believes it should be All Lives Matter.

I’ve asked him what he agrees with and what he doesn’t but he can’t really explain and he openly admits to not being informed on the situation but that it’s his opinion so he should be allowed it. On the one hand he says it is awful what happened and he thinks black lives are important but then he says “what about me? I’m not happy with my job. I’ve got hardships” and he doesn’t seem to get the point.

We’ve tried talking and I honestly hoped we could have a grown up chat but instead he raises his voice, gets worked up, and says he’s not interested.

He’s also the one to raise it as a topic of conversation, not me, I know we have differing views and having tried to talk previously I know it’s likely to end in an argument.

We fell out last night and now this morning we haven’t really spoken to each other. To me the issue between us is more than BLM, it’s a sign that we see the world very differently.

Am I being unreasonable for hoping we could talk about what’s going on in the world even if we see it from 2 different standpoints?
Would you be concerned about his reaction and attitudes to the current situation?

Thank you and I hope it’s ok to ask the question about how you’d handle differing views in a relationship.

OP. This issue has shown you he’s unintelligent, has a nasty streak, and is racist.

You must be devastated but you can’t respect him or trust him after this.

There does appear to be something fundamentally wrong with a lot of police in America, I was amazed at how many walked past and over an unconscious pensioner on the floor - that was some weird collective behaviour, he could of been dead for all they knew, just really odd, don't get it at all, that wasn't about race either. There has to be huge flaws in their training. It's good that police brutality is getting exposed, now everyone has a video camera on their phone to expose it. The stats have been shocking for decades without this being addressed, it is about time, enough is enough and the law should apply to police as much as anyone else.
Having said my rant, I think that maybe your DP is trying to communicate ineffectively about how bad he feels his life is, hence he brought it down to his problems. Also, perhaps he has a competitive nature to the extent that he has to have the worst life and he has to win the argument whether he's right or not. Maybe it's possible to find out from him why he's so miserable and stressed out but if he puts up a brick wall to communication it's understandable to get tired of his attitude.

A lot of people like myself don’t identify with a movement that is just for one racial group.

The reason why the U.K. is pretty good on the racism front is because we think everyone should be treated equally - everyone matters. We respect our police and we are quick to shout racist.

I too would be annoyed if my partner thought thought that my opinion or how I viewed an event was inferior to theirs. Black lives matter or all lives matter - who cares, we should all care about all lives.

Chanting on the streets for blacks people, well what about other ethnic groups? The south Asian population is huge in England And they’ve had history with the British.

I’m sure I’ll get a tirade of abuse, but I really don’t care about people who tell me that I should word something a certain way when my thoughts and feelings are wholesome.

All lives matter. All skin colours are equal. All ethnicities have to work together and bring each other up.

OP - it looks like he really doesn’t care about the BLM movement so why do you want to talk about it? If he’s a racist you probably would have known that by now.

Maybe he just doesn’t care at this moment in time. We all have lockdown, we all have issues. Maybe he just doesn’t care for the movement. There are plenty of movements that people don’t follow.

Show him this.

It is very difficult when you realise in your relationship that you have polarised views on certain issues.

When I first met my ex-partner I thought he understood/accepted diversity in the community but over the years his true colours came out. He would often spout homophobic stuff and then racist views. If I debated it with him, he would often shout me down and start to come out with immature comments, with no credible or articulate debate. Then when the referendum reared it's head he became very clear he was on the opposite side to me. It was definitely another nail in the coffin for our relationship. Also, when I cut out all dairy products (for health reasons) he started to get snidey with me about being a vegan.

Either way, if your views are so polarised and it flags up attitudes you are not comfortable with, the relationship is doomed.

So you pushed and pushed and he flew off the handle and he is the bad one?

I don't know what's not clicking for some posters on here, of course all lives matter but Black lives all over the world are in and have always been in imminent danger from police, NHS, schools and workplaces.

We all have stuff going on, but imagine fearing for your safety every time you left your house? Some colleague at work or the shop behaving with micro and macro aggressions?

Some of these opinions I read on here are not facts, they cannot trump lived experiences. Read and research. The reality is these protests benefit everyone not just a certain demographic.

@LivingInColour I totally agree with you and support BLM. I've had to point out to people why ALM is actually offensive and unhelpful analogy.

But also, some posters on here have failed to read that the OP didn't want a BLM debate as she was clearly focusing on the issue of her partner having polarised views.

@PinkMonkeyBird yes that part of not reading what OP initially said. I think when someone refuses to read and research why they think the way they do is very telling.

I repeat that opinion doesn't trump reality. It cannot be skewed and twisted to make sense to you (not you but in general) personally, it is ok to learn/unlearn that what you think you know or knew is not true, be uncomfortable, know that most people on this site and/or their partners have been complicit.

I'd encourage the OP to suggest reading/research to their partner and see if they're willing.

Let's try a few small points.
There is not a direct read across from America to UK or Europe. Especially on policing matters.
Have you suddenly polarised a world issue into your family. Just ask is this reasonable?
To include the NHS as somehow being part of an oppressive culture lacks logic. Whenever I go to our local hospital I encounter highly educated (mainly Asian) consultants making decisions and giving instructions.

The OPs question of AIBU means that readers/responders have to look at the argument to try and decide whether or not she is being unreasonable and furthermore, if it could or should be a deal breaker to her..

After all it is often okay for a married couple to have polarised view on many different topics but it doesn't mean that it is a reason to consider the future of their relationship.

Ultimately it is the OPs decision whether or not she decides to advocate harder for her partners understanding, leaves the issue as a non starter or walks away from the relationship altogether.

I personally like the different viewpoints that have been presented here and it's been interesting to read this thread.

To me there are two different issues and as PPs have already said , the more important issue has not been talked about as much. The OP and her partner have communication issues and can be at least a little antagonistic and contemptuous of each other. This is the real issue and where the OP needs to focus. This is something that can be worked on and improved if both parties are willing.

And by "more important issue" . I meant to the OP in the discussion about her relationship.

I am not dismissing BLM or saying that's a less important issue.

@JustthisOnce333 black women are FIVE times more likely to die in birth/pregnancy than white women in the UK. Of course the NHS is part of the problem and a few Asian consultants doesn't change this.

But to return to the OP. This is probably - in fact, this is definitely - my white privilege showing but I couldn't be with a person who proudly states they're not interested in reading or learning. In fact, I don't think I could even be friends with someone like that. OP clearly has an empathetic and curious worldview, so I think they're fundamentally mis-matched. Also I don't think they'll ever be able to find a big enough house to accommodate the chip on his shoulder, so...

@JustthisOnce333 I apologise profusely, I've addressed the first part of my post to the wrong person! I meant @soruff

If your partner is fed up in his job, he can go out and change his job. No single BAME person, fed up at endemic, systematic racism, has the ability to single-handedly go out and end that of their own volition, hence why it requires a global movement. If he can't grasp the fundamental difference, then I'd wonder about his intelligence quite frankly.

As others have said, I could potentially see myself with someone who held differing political views, although I think it would be difficult and no doubt be a source of arguments and issues, but something as fundamental as human rights? No, I wouldn't even attempt to keep friends of acquaintances who held latent racist, sexist, transphobic views etc. Life's too short to bother with people who are just going to antagonise you with their own bigotry.

Just don’t talk about it. Keep your views to yourself problem solved No the problem is not solved. You should be able to talk to your partner without them raising their voice, sulking and swearing. I have friends who I have had open discussions about this very subject. I’ll be honest, I don’t think I could be friends or be with someone who disagreed with me on such an important matter that affects me directly and was unwilling to educate themselves. There is a wealth of information out there for those willing to educate themselves.

If your boyfriend is willing to learn the following books may be helpful (books I have read, but others make be able to recommend others):
Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race by Reni
Eddo Lodge. Me and White Supremacy: How to Recognise
Your Privilege, Combat Racism and Change the World by Layla Saad.
If you have Sky TV, they currently have a Black Lives Matter section with some informative documentaries. If you can be open with him about why you are unhappy and he's still focused on 'All Lives Matter', and what about me, then I think you have your answer about your relationship.

I've o idea why the phrasing matters so much. It's not about whether all white people have a good job! It's about black people being more likely to get shot for no other reason than their skin colour. It's also about other issues that put black people at a disadvantage. Like the funding for diseases that mainly or exclusively affect black people. I would love a journalist to look into spending on sickle cell anemia research, and compare to a similarly debilitating condition that also affects white people. Might be interesting.

@soruff I don't know of your post was directed at me and I'm not sure what you mean. Your experience at your local hospital will be different from mine.

Like I said there are plenty of resources out there, books and educators and what I suggested for OP was to see if her partner was willing to learn/unlearn some of the reasons why he thinks the way he does.

I think when you talk of White Privilege there’s an association with great material wealth that lots of white people feel is not part of their experience. I think White men might struggle more to see this than white women - women are very familiar with the concept of Male privilege and are able to apply that learning to the subject of race. Lots of white men go through their lives blind to their advantages assuming their opportunities ( or confidence) are shared by everyone. If they’ve had a difficult upbringing themselves ( say financially disadvantaged) then they feel a bit insulted at the insinuation that they have it easy or they haven’t suffered. I think your OHs comments about not liking his job are his way of expressing that. In addition if you don’t go around being actively hostile to POC it can feel like a horrible accusation despite the fact that you never actually do anything to help either - you’re passively part of the problem. I think it’s an uncomfortable place to sit

To be honest, I see your situation as the whole problem with the current conversation surrounding current events.
No one is allowed to have a different opinion, you not even allowed to say you dont know. If you don't fully support BLM than you are deemed a racist, a bully and an idiot.
Even here your partner has made some very honest comments, including that he isn't totally knowledgeable about the subject.
Can you imagine if the tables were turned and your partner expected you to have the same view as him on every subject, that he kept brow beating you till you snapped, that he called you negative names if you didn't. Posters here would be screaming that he is a manipulative controlling bully. and I am afraid that is exactly what you are.
He can have a different view, he can not want to be forced to talk about it till he agrees with you.
This isn't about BLM, it is how you communicate with your partner and you react if he doesnt fall in line with you way of thinking

I think the OPs partner might be guilty of missing the point and might be guilty of being annoying and obviously telling her to fuck off is out of order. He might in fact be a terrible person, I don't know either way.

But what does the OP say that actually indicates he is a racist or small minded? For all we know he is an advocate for people who have autusm , or volunteers with people who have learning disabilities or cares for his grandmother who has Alzheimer's . A lot of people on this thread have taken a little piece of information about this man, in the context of a couple of arguments and completely written him off .

No offence but is that not the kind of thinking we are trying to move away from?

Thank you everyone for your feedback and input. To those of you who have recognised that the issue is communication between myself and my partner - you’ve hit the nail on the head and it’s this that I’m worried about. I wonder if it can be fixed or at the very least be improved upon or if we are too different?
I’m not an argumentative person but will happily talk openly, he seems a discussion as an opportunity to raise his voice.

To @Cheeseandwin5 and any others who accused me of bringing the subject up or “browbeating” him then please re-read it and see that I didn’t. He’s brought it up each and every time and I’ve done my best to talk about it but if I’ve seen it heading downhill I’ve tried to stop it. I haven’t called him negative names, I don’t do that. Whereas he has told me to fuck off which I totally disagree with, I just don’t think you should talk to someone you love in that way.

Anyway, all of this has revealed even more about his character and that he’s unable to talk about things. If I don’t nod along and say “yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir” then I’m shouted at and sworn at.

Thanks again everyone for sharing your views.
Now I’ve got to work out what to do about my relationship...

I have always seen the phrase Black lives matter...as Black lives matter too. Of course all lives matter but it’s more about recognising the inequalities in our society.

Well you could agree to disagree on subjects like BLM. His comments about it being phrased wrong and what about other issues are not more than what many people (even black people) think. Some have said it should be phrased “black lives matter too” which I don’t agree with but I can understand where they are coming from and respect that as it I should a phrasing that would cause less lash backs. And on other issues, one example I’ve heard is the fact it is an issue that affects mostly men, not women. Even in the US, police brutality kills fewer black people (mostly men) than the high number black women dying of childbirth every year. Yet where is the movement, the worldwide outcry for these women? Yes it’s a whatabout, but it does highlight that in a patriarchal society male lives will always be more important than female lives. They will always get more popular support to fight injustice and oppression.

However, I would say to him that no one is entitled to an opinion. Only an informed opinion. No one is entitled to ignorance. If he can’t explain his opinion using informed rationales, then I’d say you may have an incompatibility issue. Some people prefer to go through life in ignorance, blissfully blind to the sufferings of anyone except themselves. They are not informed because they don’t care about anything that doesn’t affect them. I couldn’t be married to a person like that.