AIBU - Black Lives Matter

[Melandri]

Hi all,

This is a highly sensitive issue I know and I’m not looking for opinions on the topic or to spark any confrontation between people, I just need to know if you think I’m being unreasonable in the discussions I’ve had with my partner.

I am fairly well read on the current situation and firmly support Black Lives Matter. He isn’t and is adamant that “they’ve phrased it wrong” and is in the camp that believes it should be All Lives Matter.

I’ve asked him what he agrees with and what he doesn’t but he can’t really explain and he openly admits to not being informed on the situation but that it’s his opinion so he should be allowed it. On the one hand he says it is awful what happened and he thinks black lives are important but then he says “what about me? I’m not happy with my job. I’ve got hardships” and he doesn’t seem to get the point.

We’ve tried talking and I honestly hoped we could have a grown up chat but instead he raises his voice, gets worked up, and says he’s not interested.

He’s also the one to raise it as a topic of conversation, not me, I know we have differing views and having tried to talk previously I know it’s likely to end in an argument.

We fell out last night and now this morning we haven’t really spoken to each other. To me the issue between us is more than BLM, it’s a sign that we see the world very differently.

Am I being unreasonable for hoping we could talk about what’s going on in the world even if we see it from 2 different standpoints?
Would you be concerned about his reaction and attitudes to the current situation?

Thank you and I hope it’s ok to ask the question about how you’d handle differing views in a relationship.

@Skyla2005

Just don’t talk about it. Keep your views to yourself problem solved

That’s kind of hard in a relationship. If I was OP I would feel the same way especially as he keeps raising it. @Melandri he wants to stay uninformed (ignorant) he wants you to come around to his thinking. I couldn’t be in a relationship with someone like that. Being ignorant is one thing actively wanting someone to unlearn show contempt for education to a level I couldn’t condone. That for me is the real crux issue, the fact he’s a closet racist is another issue.

He's showing his true colours.

Many men believe things should revolve around them and they can't handle others having the spotlight.

He doesn't read or learn about BLM because it doesn't concern him.
And him implying he is oppressed as a white male because everything isn't perfect for him, is offensive.

He's not a nice man.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. What seems wrong to me is how he's behaving, although of course if this issue is that important to you, you could choose not to be with him based on his opinions on BLM alone.

We’ve tried talking and I honestly hoped we could have a grown up chat but instead he raises his voice, gets worked up, and says he’s not interested.

He thinks his opinion is more important than yours and tries to shout you down, effectively trying to get you to STFU. That he is the one that raises the issue (and you don't because you don't want the hassle) shows that what he is actually trying to do is kind of about control and authority over you.

Am I being unreasonable for hoping we could talk about what’s going on in the world even if we see it from 2 different standpoints?

Of course not.

Would you be concerned about his reaction and attitudes to the current situation?

I would be concerned at his behaviour- it's kind of aggressive. And if a man was on a completely different page in an unpleasant way to me I might dump him. The red line for me would be feminism, but that's partly because being anti-feminist can say something about how a man might treat a woman in a relationship.

You could ask him for his views on Feminism and see what he comes out with.

@Skyla2005 OP has said it's her boyf that raises it now, not her.

To be fair to him, he’s admitted that he doesn’t know much about the subject and you’re there pushing him to have an opinion that’s acceptable to you when you know he’s less informed than you and so has had less time to think through the issues. That’s just not a nice thing to do to your partner, just because you’d like to have a discussion about it doesn’t mean he should have to. If he’s telling you he’s not interested in a particular topic of conversation and you keep pushing it, what do you expect?

He may have a point about Black Lives Matter being phrased wrong. It has raised the same response from many people and maybe there is a different phrase that could have been used that would have prevented people from thinking that the phrase implies that other lives don’t matter. That in itself is a fair and valid opinion. For people who are completely uninformed and who have their own disadvantages in life, it can come across as dismissive of other lives. It takes a little time and thought to understand why the words Black lives Matter are appropriate. I’ve taken the time to understand it and am in full support, but before I understood I wouldn’t have appreciated a more knowledgeable partner pushing me on it and after asking my opinion on it telling me that I’m wrong and not allowed an opinion.

It’s not like he’s shouting his opinion on the streets or posting it all over Facebook, he’s having a conversation with his partner. You said he thinks it’s awful what happened, and that’s enough when you’re right at the beginning of understanding huge, complicated issues. I don’t think it’s fair to imply that he’s racist based on what you’ve said. It doesn’t make people racist just because they don’t automatically and immediately understand issues that have never affected them.

melandri that's awful, but it looks as though you know what you need to know now.

Being with someone who makes a point of not learning, not being prepared to change, is surely a recipe for long teem conflict and misery.

If I still held fast to all the views I held when I was 39, I would be a pretty (or an even more) annoying person and a terrible (or even worse) parent.

30 I meant, but I expect you know what I mean

he says openly that he doesn’t read and will stay uninformed...
So why would you want to be with someone like this? You are obviously not like that yourself, the relationship hasn't got a future. Don't be devastated - just end a relationship that's never, ever going to work for you.

I am dating a BAME man right now and would never claim to know exactly what he has struggled with or that I know anything about it as a white woman, although I have often been assumed to be of Asian heritage and have experienced some racism (as has my DD2) I still know it’s not the same thing and never will be. I couldn’t be with anyone who expressed these views

I am going to say something that is going to perhaps show my ignorance and if you want to tell me anything that I can read or look upon to educate myself I would appreciate it.

I am white , I live in a town that , to me , is probably over 90% white. The first time I went to London as a teenager I was absolutely amazed at seeing the rich diversity and culture . Basically I'm a bit of a hick.

I work with underprivileged and sometimes abused/neglected white children and my first thought was to them. They matter , they aren't black but they matter and for about 24 hours I continued to think this ridiculous and ill informed thought. I eventually realised that by saying black lives matter , it is not saying that white lives don't , and of course this is something that absolutely must be addressed and corrected .

Just to say , some if us take longer to see the point than others. I think you should try to discuss this with your husband more . Because when I actually started to realise, it taught me something important , your husband could be the same.

I think @TorkTorkBam has a great perspective on this.
You are focused on a big picture thing about the world at large and he is focused on something that is more direct ie something about his job by the sounds.
You feel like he isn't hearing you, and he probably feels that you aren't hearing him.
The winner is the person who listens first, not the person who makes the other person listen first.

Notice i say listen not agree, and try to talk about feelings not what is ostensibly"correct"

I wouldn’t want to write someone off as a person because if this view, it can come from many different places, and mean different things. Also... defensiveness in the form of ‘all lives matter‘ can be a genuine ignorance of how bad it can be for black people. I want to continue open discussion in our society, to change it for the better. So I wouldn’t want to close down a discussion. Change takes time.

I’ve been having this ‘discussion’ with my father who has expressed similar misguided views imho. I have questioned his responses.

However would I want to be someone’s girlfriend when they repeatedly dismissed others pain? Probably not.

Just to say , some if us take longer to see the point than others. I think you should try to discuss this with your husband more . Because when I actually started to realise, it taught me something important , your husband could be the same.

Good perspective. And it also something that we ultimately aim for isn’t it? A world where there is really no predjudice and all lives do indeed matter? What people often don’t get in my view, is that in order to get there we have to challenge deep rooted inequalities and predjudice that are directed at particular groups. Our job at this moment is to listen, reflect and act positively on black lives matter. At another time, we can focus on women’s lives matter for example. We wouldn’t say well men’s lives matter. Of course they do, but there is a problem with how women are treated worse in many cases. Same with the BLM. We have to give room to a particular problem, the racism. We don’t do this by dismissing it.

If he was happy to discuss and disagree and take on board your points then that would be fine but he isn't at the moment.

And aside from this specific issue, as you're the one who has to live with him, is this going to be repeated in discussions about sleep training the baby or which car to buy or the millions of other things you might disagree about?

A fairly simple of way of thinking about it would be :
You are right to be angry at your own hardship. It's not a race to the bottom. The very specific issue here is that your hardship isn't related to your skin colour. (but to an unfair economic system, government policies etc all of which you should be directing your anger and energy at).

If he thinks he has been hard done by, let's talk about white privilege. Let's talk about how by having an African sounding name or a different accent, he probably would have struggled getting the job he hates do much.
I bet his hardships don't include being followed around in a shop in case he might steal something.
I bet his hardships don't include having to research what racism is like in places he wants to holiday to.

All the above have happened to me and my husband.

If your DH doesn't want to be informed and wants to continue to stay uneducated, tell him to keep his small minded thoughts to himself because they don't hold any weight.

I think you have to meet in the middle. By the sounds of it he is not an unpleasant person, he just struggles to understand the focus of the BLM movement. If you ask him to understand it to mean 'Black Lives Matter Too', I very much doubt he would have the same issues.

It's such a sad story, but I'm happy you shared it and that you have the insight and humanity to realise this view point is wrong and obnoxious.

I would explain to him it's a very ignorant and racist view point. I attach the picture which also explains that the " all lives matter" slogan, is a deliberate attempt to sideline the issue and he does get it and as do others that say this, but he chooses not to get it ! ♥️🙏🏾

I can see where he's coming from to an extent. I support BLM, however I can see how someone who isn't informed could look upon them as only caring about black people/saying they're the only ones who matter. It's all about education really and we all have that responsibility on us regardless of colour. Sometimes the people who shout the loudest aren't the best leaders from certain movements and can comes across like bigots.

Humanity is almost incapable of balance. Where do we go from here? Do we report every crime that happens to a black person, but ignore their white counterparts and vice versa? I'm not sure what will happen and I can guarantee that what I am saying will be slammed but I'm just trying to look at the whole thing from every possible angle and come up with a logical conclusion.

If he's unhappy about his job he should definitely try to find something else he's interested in. That probably won't be easy because of the virus but I'm sure he could look into things.

@Checkingcrosses866

I am going to say something that is going to perhaps show my ignorance and if you want to tell me anything that I can read or look upon to educate myself I would appreciate it.

I am white , I live in a town that , to me , is probably over 90% white. The first time I went to London as a teenager I was absolutely amazed at seeing the rich diversity and culture . Basically I'm a bit of a hick.

I work with underprivileged and sometimes abused/neglected white children and my first thought was to them. They matter , they aren't black but they matter and for about 24 hours I continued to think this ridiculous and ill informed thought. I eventually realised that by saying black lives matter , it is not saying that white lives don't , and of course this is something that absolutely must be addressed and corrected .

Just to say , some if us take longer to see the point than others. I think you should try to discuss this with your husband more . Because when I actually started to realise, it taught me something important , your husband could be the same.

The issue is he doesn’t want to think critically he is trying to browbeat the OP into his way of thinking. He has said he will not read, he is happy in his ignorance and wants the OP to be the same.

I agree whole heartedly that Black Lives matter as do Traveler lives Asian lifes . But what I dont like is the minority of people looting it does nothing to progress the message. I dont think statues should be pulled down either I dont want history whitewashed or forgotten it should act as I reminder about what has gone before we forget it at our peril. My son is a serving soldier and I am was totally disgusted to see how the cenotaph has been treated by louts.

I agree that there is such a thing as white privilege, racism etc but I don't support BLM/Antifa because they think violence is ok if it supports the cause and have other extremist opinions and motives.

What the policeman did was obviously wrong. I don't support the career criminal George Floyd being painted as a 'gentle giant' though. And most violence against black men is by black men.

All of this is kind of a tangent though- at least part of the problem in this case is how the OP's partner treats her viewpoints etc, shouting over her or whatever. That is not ok.

Thank you everyone for your input, it really has helped me to see clearly.

To those who recognised that it is him not being able to see my point of view and browbeating me, you are exactly right.

He raised his voice earlier and told me to fuck off and has said that I’ve “taken it the wrong way” and I’m “too sensitive”.

I think I need out but it’s breaking my heart.

Op your have problems with a person like that.

Could you imagine when you have an issues together?... it will be all about him.

If he doesn't like his job get a new one, you can't get new bloody skin