Once a cheat, always a cheat?

[WomblingTree]

I've been chatting to a few guys online during lockdown, ready to hopefully meet a nice chap when the world starts again! There is one guy I'm talking to who seems perfect. I've had a few phone calls with him too, and one video call. He is articulate, intelligent and well educated, interesting, fun, cute, clearly interested in me but not pushy at all. You get the idea - I like him! I basically lost interest in talking to anyone else once I'd started chatting to him.

In our video call, we started talking about past relationships (for the first time), and I asked him if he had ever cheated on a partner. He winced, sighed and told me that he had. He said his marriage ended (last year) due to a lack of intimacy, with his wife losing interest many years before and not even wanting to kiss him. He said that after staying faithful in a sexless marriage for about ten years he finally caved in and had a brief affair. He said he thought about leaving at the time (instead of having the affair), but couldn't bring himself to do so because he couldn't bear not to see his children every day, and so had an affair instead. He said it was only brief because he felt so guilty. He admitted it to his wife, and they stayed together (again, sexless) to co-parent the children. He said she had affairs too, but that he had his one first.

He finally left her last year (three years after the affair), because he and his wife had grown so far apart it was starting to impact on the children.

I'm really torn. I hate cheaters, but he seemed so sad and genuine about it, and he didn't try to hide it from me when I asked. I can believe that he would have gone to great lengths to stay in the marriage to be with his children - he obviously adores them (he's talked about them loads - which is fine with me as I've talked about my kids loads too!) and spends lots of time with them now (they are all teenagers, the oldest nearly being an adult), with them living with him roughly half the time.

He says he will completely understand if it is a deal breaker for me, and is just glad he had the opportunity to spend a few weeks chatting to me.

Aaaagghh! I don't know what to do. Does anyone have any advice? Should I give him a chance, or is it a case of "once a cheat, always a cheat?"

Thanks!

I cheated when I was in my early twenties, I'm now in my forties, just to one guy. I was too drunk and the man coming onto me was scorching hot! I ended my relationship within a couple of weeks due to guilt and have never been unfaithful again.

I don't think that once a cheat, always a cheat.

However one important thing to think about is that marriages often become sexless for a reason. Maybe she didn't want to be intimate because she resented him for certain behaviour or past issues and eventually she couldn't stand him touching her. It happens. Women lose the desire to be intimate with bad partners and don't really get it back.

I remember my ex once phoned me from the pub one night to basically tell me he'd 'shamed' me and told a friend of his that I wouldn't have sex with him ever!

The truth was that no I didn't want to have sex with him and it was for many reasons such as the fact that I didn't want to be with him in the first place and he would threaten suicide if I left. He was also a problem drinker which was pretty disgusting, the states he used to come home in (when he did come home) would turn anyone off. Eventually I couldn't force myself to have sex with him anymore to keep the peace because the thought of it made me so sick.
Now that's quite an extreme example, but it's still common for women to get turned off sex if their partner is treating them with disrespect or being sleazy all the time with them or lots of other bad behaviour that you wouldn't want in a relationship!

Interesting question and there will always be 3 sides to a story, his side, her side & the truth. When he says he's never going to do it again what will happen when he goes through a time when his wife or partner doesn't fancy sex, will he seek it elsewhere? I made a mistake embarking on a relationship with someone that had cheated a number of times on her husband. He later told nd she'd cheated on the guy she was with to be with him. I met her on an internet date but turned out there was still an ex she was still using for d.i.y on a friends with benefits basis. I think you'd be wise to cautious and mindful. Personally I think more people that have cheated would be inclined to do it again.

Anyone can cheat on us. That's the risk we take every time we enter a relationship. And the most risky are those who are completely sure they'd never do it. They will have absolutely no defences if boundaries become blurry.

I'd want to know whether he'd done any work on himself. Therapy, etc. How much self-awareness and insight does he have into his own behaviour?

@Rockandahardplaice

Children aren't babies forever.

I would crawl across broken glass for my kids. If that means enduring a sexless marriage until they are old enough to have input on where they live, then I would do that.

What I wouldn't do is pretend that I was a victim and seek out sexual gratification and intimacy with another person, then pretend that I'm "doing it for the kids".

One of my parents cheated. I was 5 years old at the time when it all came out. I still remember how I felt, that my parent had chosen this other person over my sibling and I. I've seen the destruction that affairs have on the families around me in my friends and work colleagues, it's never worth it.

@DontBeRickDiculous

Stop making ridiculous claims.

Bluntly put, you've no f*ing clue what you are talking about. You obviously aren't in a sexless marriage. I am, and it is indescribably painful. Children aren't babies forever? You are talking about enduring a generation of pain. How dare you minimise pain you don't understand?

A couple of decades ago I might blithely have said the same thing that you just did, that I would endure a sexless marriage until my kids are old enough to have input on where they live. I would probably have judged someone harshly for cheating in those, or any, circumstances. Now I've lived that sexless relationship myself for a long time, I can understand EXACTLY why OPs prospective romantic partner may have felt so trapped that he did what he did, and I wouldn't judge him for it.

Believe me, I AM a victim in my situation. I'm sure my wife is too, in her way - she has no control over the fact that she no longer desires me. Sometimes no one is to blame, and it's just that life is shit. But I'm the one who has to sleep next to the person I love, EVERY SINGLE FUCKING NIGHT knowing that her feelings for me are platonic. Yes, I could leave, but for reasons not entirely dissimilar to those of the man in the original post, the cost to do so is more than I can bear. So maybe he really is a victim - you certainly lack the information to judge him properly. And it doesn't sound like he claimed he was "doing it for the kids" - it sounded like he was honest that he was doing it for himself.

Will I ever cheat in the future? Before all this started I'd count myself as someone who would NEVER cheat, under any circumstances. Now, all these years later? I'm not so sure.

is it a case of "once a cheat, always a cheat?"

Not necessarily but I'm not going to be the one who finds out. I don't wish to have any emotional relationship be it friend or partner with someone who has or does cheat. It's just not a trait in someone that I value. So if they've told me upfront, it's time for me to move along. The only way I'd have anything to do with a past cheater is if I had no idea and was never told.

People can and might change, but I'm not going to be the one that tests that theory because sometimes they don't or it lasts a set amount of time etc... No thanks, not for me.

You can't second guess this op. People behave depending on their circumstances. If he'd never told you this and told you a lie you wouldn't be having doubts, but in my mind it would be worse that he's a liar.

I wouldn't't check with his wife - she won't appreciate you implying she didn't have sex. If you like him then see where it goes. If you do make a go of it - he's older, wiser, educated & informed by his first experience, with a different person...

I think that human beings are complex, and the line ‘once a cheat, always a cheat’ is reductive. People behave differently in different circumstances and relationships.

However, there’s a reason why you are here asking advice - could it be that your gut is telling you not to believe everything this man says?

I hasten to add (adding to my last post) both the men I cheated on, I did leave, then found out they had both cheated on me too.

My last relationship was loveless/sexless, I neither loved him nor found him attractive, I never cheated, I broke up with him, he was also lying/cheating.

Yes it depends on circumstances I agree, sometimes you just cannot walk away from a relationship, but that's the time to talk and be honest IMO.

@NoMoreDickheads

You are exceptionally cynical! I'm guessing you think sexless marriages don't exist? Or perhaps that in EVERY case they do, it's because the man is a wanker? How about you maybe review the literature on this - genuine sexless marriages are not that uncommon, and they are agonising, often for both parties (and certainly for the person who has had celibacy imposed on them unilaterally).

"Do you think this guy I'm talking to is just making it all up about the sexless marriage

Yes. Absolutely. And if his marriage broke up mainly due to sex, is that the sort of guy you want? Someone that into sex? What if you weren't in the mood for a while, or didn't like all the same stuff as him?"

You are accusing someone of lying without a shred of evidence? Seriously? Also, you consider someone who has stayed married without sex for a decade to be "that into sex"? I'd say someone like that had proved themselves to be rather tolerant of a lack of sex.

"10 years in a sexless marriage

This is EXACTLY the line my ex gave me- the poor soul selflessly waited ten years before seeking a sex life of his own. They say that because it sounds more acceptable. They're lying their fat arses off."

Here we go again, you are accusing someone of lying when you know fuck all about them, and fuck all about their situation.

Fair enough you may have suffered at the hands of someone who claimed they had a sexless marriage, but it is intellectually dishonest (and beyond the absurd) to then accuse everyone else making the same claim to be a liar too!

Thank you everyone. I hadn't realised that there would be such strong feelings and different views on this!

I spoke to the chap on the phone last night and explained how I felt. I told him I had really liked him, and couldn't reconcile how nice he seems to be with what he had done in the past. I told him his situation sounded awful, but that something in me is really uncomfortable with cheating.

He was very supportive, and seemed more resigned than anything. He said that he really likes me too, but that trust is really important in a relationship, and that he fully accepts that he has to start any relationship with a handicap as far as trust is concerned.

He said again that he would fully understand if I wanted to pass on him and look for someone I can trust from the start, but that if I did want to see where things go with him then he would be happy for us to just meet up as friends, stay that way as long as I needed, and that if I grew to trust him then maybe something would develop in the future.

I think I'm going to keep an open mind and meet up with him.

To be honest I think it would make me feel very insecure. What if he had to work away or you had major surgery which meant you couldn’t have sex for a while. Having an affair because you're having relationship problems just sums him up to me. Actions speak louder than words.

At the end of the day, you have to go with your gut feeling OP
There is no way of proving that anyone in the world would "never cheat"

Completely agree

Blimey, he sounds alright actually. Good luck with him OP

@Vamoosh

Apparently this guy had lived sexless for 10 years before having an affair, and his wife wouldn't even kiss him!

Presumably he wouldn't work away for 10 years? And presumably major surgery isn't going to mean she can't kiss him for 10 years?!

On the other hand, I can totally understand why it would make you feel insecure. I just don't think you can rationalise that insecurity in the way you have. But insecurity doesn't have to be completely logical, and there are enough prospective partners out there that you don't need to force yourself to give any particular person a chance.

A friend of mine was stitched too tightly after childbirth and they couldn’t have sex for 18 months when it was finally ‘fixed’.
We only know about the sexless 10 years because of his version of events, I can imagine his ex wife has a different story. I’ve been stung by my ex. He told me he could never cheat on someone again and was honest from the start, 3 years later I caught him in bed with someone else. I have zero insecurities with my DH because he has never given me reason to doubt him. I’m not an insecure mess, I’m just warning OP because I’ve been there and got stung. It hurt and I have learned from my mistake. I don’t care that his marriage was sexless for 10 years, I don’t care that he’s been honest. I’ve heard all these excuses before and I still ended up hurt because I was naive. Just the same as I wouldn’t date someone who’d hit his ex either. “It was only once, I’d never do it to you” “she used to manipulate me and wind me up” “we’d had a lot to drink and it got out of hand” etc.

@chickenninja

I'd give him a chance. He's been really honest with you.

Why would a man who was dishonest to his wife be honest with a stranger ?

the cost to do so is more than I can bear.

No, the cost is more than you choose you bear.

That's your choice; but it's not true that you absolutely could not bear it.

You'd possibly have reduced financial circumstances, you'd have to forge a relationship with your children as a separated/divorced man, you'd have to get over your partner and get into a relationship (with a "normal" sex life) with a new partner. There are legions of women, many of whom you see on this forum, crying out for a decent man for a relationship.

You say you couldn't say you would never cheat now, having experienced a sexless marriage for years, bit if you stay and do cheat .. it could be over anyway, and in nasty circumstances (which wouldn't be the case if you left cleanly and with respect).

@Vamoosh

I agree with you that we don't know the truth about this sexless 10 years. Maybe it was his fault. Maybe it wasn't.

The problem I had with your post was that you ASSUME that it was his fault. You even admit yourself that you "imagine" that his ex wife has a different story - that's your imagination speaking, not knowledge about the truth. Your later language refers to "excuses". You are condemning him as guilty by default, and are unwilling to even acknowledge the possibility that maybe, just maybe, he was in the difficult position he claimed to be. That's not how any reasonable justice system works, and its not how moral judgements should work either.

I think drawing a parallel with domestic violence is unreasonable too. I don't think anyone on the planet would try to justify violence as reasonable in any situation other than self-defence, or in defence of others.

I'll say it again though, you don't need to justify your own reasons for choosing partners. Everyone has an absolute right to choose their partner (or not to choose them) for any reason at all, and given the choice between someone who has never cheated for any reason and someone who has cheated for an apparently understandable reason, the smart money would probably be on the person who has never cheated (all other things being equal).

Just like you all assume that someone who has been dishonest with his wife will be completely honest with someone he’s trying to date 🤷‍♀️ only time will tell but all I’m saying is I wouldn’t want to be the one experimenting.

The once a cheat always a cheat line is rolled out by people normally with their own agenda. People change, I’d give it a shot

@GilbertMarkham

Those are spurious arguments, and you know it.

I COULD cut my own hand off. I COULD blow my own head off with a shotgun. In both cases I technically CHOOSE not to, for obvious reasons.

But it would be entirely reasonable for me to say that I couldn't BEAR to do those things.

So stop being absurdly pedantic.

The reality is, life is about choosing between alternatives.

I could choose:
(1) sexless, celibate marriage (grim, as I know from experience)
(2) open relationship (if permitted, in my case it isn't)
(3) Cheat (currently under debate on this thread)
(4) Separate (financial consequences for me AND my wife,, wife doesn't want to for her own reasons (we've discussed it), kids would need to move to much worse schools (currently in a private school, nearby state schools are shite, no equity in house to move, couldn't afford private school fees if we split), and so on and so forth. These (among others which would be specific enough to identify me) are the costs which are more than I can bear.

Of course its up to me to choose which of these to go for. Right now, I'm at (1). I'd rather (1) than (4). (2) isn't an option.

To be honest, at this point I'm not at all sure that cheating is the wrong thing to do. The main reason I don't is the reason you state in your second message - that it might potentially result in separation anyway, and under much worse circumstances. Besides, I really don't want to hurt my wife, irrespective of how painful our current situation is.