Patronising husband?

[Railingsohno]

Am I overreacting here?

We were having a chat about a few books I loved when I was younger . He then said “It saddens me that you don’t read any more”. It’s true I don’t read much fiction these days. I mainly go on my phone but I read blogs/news items/ Mumsnet/twitter/Instagram etc... so am pretty well informed and quite politically minded. I do read but not nearly as much as I used to.

I am so annoyed by that comment. He has history for being a bit patronising. I quite often have to say “I’m not your 4th child you know”, “I am a fully functioning adult you know”. Like he checks I’ve got my coat etc... sometimes when we go out. I’d say it usually comes because he likes looking after us all but this felt really bloody annoying.

I got really pissed off and probably then defensively laid into him about his lack of engagement on political issues.

Was I wrong? Needless to say he hasn’t apologised. Sorry is the hardest word here

Actually no I don’t think YABU. On the face of it he comes across as caring but between the lines he is actually treating you like a child and he is the only adult in the house. It’s domination by stealth. My ex was similar. Especially with the mess.

It’s one of the reasons why I left my ex I felt like I was being unreasonable all the time when I’m reality I wasn’t. I got to the point where I felt his needs were more important than mine. Eg. My need for a tidy house verses his need to destroy the back garden

Would have pissed me off too with what happened when your ds was hungover. He doesn’t get to vet what you say to your own son.

Maybe your feeling suffocated and getting to a place you want to leave. Too good to leave too bad to stay is a brilliant book which really helped me get my thoughts straight, you should try it.

Cross posted with JustC.

You say that the relationship doesn't sound abusive because the op stands up for herself, but the problem is that it because harder and harder to stand your ground the more you stay in this type of situation. The op is already confused, upset and doubting herself and without some drastic changes in how he speaks to her I can't see things getting much better.

Domination by stealth is a really good phrase and very accurate.

Cambionome, I honestly think he sounds like an asshole. ( I read books, fanfiction or MN, my husband prefers reading the news, we dont belittle eacother for our occupational preferences). I just don't necessarily think he is abussive, more od a patronising asshole. And I was reflecting more on the parenting with that post.

Thanks so much everyone.

He does have a lot of redeeming features! He’s funny, he’s kind, supportive in lots of ways, nice to my friends and family, a great dad, a good cook..... splitting up seems so dramatic and it makes me feel sad too. However I am not happy today.

What happens when you sit him down for a proper talk about this, when you're both calm? Does he get your point?

@Eckhart - I’ve not yet had a conversation with him apart from in the heat of the moment. I need to. I feel pretty tearful today.

It’s hard to know up from down sometimes. Some of these replies have shocked me.

It def sounds like there's a major communication block, is that new or just finally getting to straw that broke the camels back?

He's trying to meet your emotional needs but is completely missing that a tidy house would mean more to you than him checking if you've been for a pee and done your reading.
It's possible he feels you aren't meeting him where his emotional needs are either but that's his side.

I think you def need a conversation about how the way he acts makes you feel like he doesn't trust or value your input.

My friend swears by a book about love languages, about how we want to be shown love / how we show love. Might be worth a read.

You've had responses from both poles, some seem quite dramatic given the limited information that can be shared on a forum like this.

I hope he sees it from your point of view. If you're met with defense, that's tricky, but if you don't approach it as an attack (start your sentences with 'I' to avoid getting accusatory), perhaps he'll say sorry and try to amend his behaviour so's not to upset you any further.

If it's simply a communication issue, hopefully some clear communication will sort it out. Good luck :)

He also said to me “sometimes you don’t pick up on people’s cues/reactions to what you’re saying” which I thought was quite nasty. When I asked him to elaborate, he couldn’t really think of anything

Ohhhhh......he sounds like an ex-fwb of mine from years ago......i dumped him after a month or so!
It's about control - that's why he's 'great' at helping others when they 'need' it - HE is in control of how things 'play out' and 'look'.

He's probably always been like this and you just didn't see properly before.
You probably allowed his good points to fudge over the no-so-good bits.
Don't allow him to take your power of self, especially when it comes to the kind of relationship you want to nurture with your son.
A parent who can have a laugh and joke with you when you're hungover and feeling like shit is like balm on burning skin......

That ex-fwb was trying to 'mould' me into talking, acting and doing as he thought i 'should' be.
I actually thought i was being paranoid and overthinking when he was like that, until

It's ironic too, given that he is oblivious to OP's cues/reactions to the things he says...

I think it's also interesting that he likes looking after you when you are ill - this puts him in full control.

Not quite so good at engaging with you when you are in good health and asserting yourself...

Thank you all, I hugely appreciated all your thoughts and input 🙏. I am actually so mad and upset about it all now! I had a terrible nights sleep worrying about. Work has been very busy today so I’ve not spoken much to him yet.

I just had a very calm and heartfelt discussion with him. He was very apologetic about the stuff to do with the kids. I made him promise to really think and reflect on the way he views me, why he’s happiest when he’s helping people. I told him some of his behaviour seemed controlling and I felt that he wasn’t on my team.

He admitted that he gets defensive and lashes out verbally and in the cold light of day couldn’t really believe that he’d made that comment about me missing peoples cues. He tried to excuse it but I said that I thought it was vindictive and a way of putting me in my place. He mentioned his “ego” which was interesting as it’s not something I really associate with him. However I’ve started to think about it on the back of this thread.

He said he thought the world of me which was nice. He thinks I’m a great mum.

One other thing that was interesting was he said I see things very much in black and white, whereas he sees shades of grey. I think he was using it as an example of how I argue my point more effectively! But actually he says that a lot and I’ve mentioned it to others and they’ve been surprised as they don’t see me that way. I pointed this out to him. Is this just another box he has put me in? Food for thought.

Slight low point when he said at the end about how it might be hard for him to “police his behaviour” how he might still get it wrong sometimed. I said that’s why he needs to go away and really examine and reflect on his feelings and behaviour towards me. There shouldn’t be the need for policing if he stops trying to mould/control me. I was a bit disappointed in that.

Anyway I basically said that he’s got me questioning myself, my capabilities as a parent and as an adult and I can’t go on this way.

Yes, it's not really about policing his behaviour, is it, it's about the root of why he's behaving that way.

Sounds like a good start though, Railings. I'm glad he didn't tell you that you were just being silly. That's what my ex told me when I said I felt invalidated a lot in our relationship. It was the worst invalidation of the lot! Sound like you and your husband have at least identified areas to work on, and he's up for the work.

Thanks so much @Eckhart and thanks for your support and wisdom

Does sound a bit like he sees himself in the position of a teacher or boss, rather than as both of you being equals in terms of your ethics/intellect/people skills. You say his parents are similar? Do they also have similar jobs? My exh was a teacher, his parents were a teacher and a doctor. They lectured him, and he increasingly lectured me. When I looked back later, I remembered examples of it right from the start of our relationship.

We broke up so I'm not an expert in how to overcome it.
In my ex's case, his bigheaded side was probably actually rooted in an effort to get some recognition as a capable adult, having been treated as a stupid child within his family.

Even in your last, quite positive post, you still describe your dh as accusing you of thinking in black and white (while he is more nuanced), telling you that he feels policed and incapable of "getting it right" as if you are setting arbitrary standards so that he has no way to know what is right.

Do you think you could sit down and discuss what would be the right way to coparent, rather than you telling him what he does wrong and him telling you what you do wrong? Neither of you seem to be reacting well to that.

@ravenmum that’s interesting. He boarded from a young age so I’m not sure really. That must have an impact though?

The work stress may have some bearing too.

Interesting jobwise as that’s more my line than his!

I think it’s a good idea to have a more positive discussion about what would be better/ not controlling in the examples I have given. It’s not just about co parenting really, it’s how he sees me as a person.

Interesting that once a year I go away with the kids for a few days on my own and I love the feeling of doing what I want! And them too obviously

Ps he never lectures me

His mum is the silent disapproving type. Or is to me anyway!

You are lucky to escape the lecturing but with my exh it was also little things like this - acting generally like I was a wayward schoolgirl: less disciplined, for example.
I found it worthwhile having a think about how he grew up; if you can understand where he's coming from, it can help to see what angle you could take to approach it, and also just makes you feel a bit more sympathy towards him rather than really, really irritated!

OP glad to hear the talk went relatively well. I would say to him it's not about poliving himself, just be more mindful, and even if he still makes the same mistakes here and there, he should take a pause and admit them. And, yes, I think our upbringing has a big impact on us as individuals, and in relationship to others.

My husband does this both ways, he will ask if he needs a coat and remind me to grab things. I don't find it patronising but in this case it could be the way he does it.

However I am disappointed sometimes that my husband doesn't read anymore as I enjoy conversations with him about books he used to read. He also reads forums and news but says he doesn't have the attention span for reading anymore

Apologies OP, last page clearly didn't load. Glad the talk went well, mostly. It is funny though as I say my husband sees in black and white but his friends don't see it. But his mum does. I wonder if it is amount of time you spend with someone

My DH asked me ever so gently and encouragingly if I was going to have a bath the other day, 2 hours before our zoom chat with family.

I told him to mind his own business. I’m in my 40s Ffs. I can handle my own personal hygiene