I have no idea who is right

[Cloudwatching57]

Firstly I apologise that this sounds so petty!! This has of course been magnified in lockdown.
We have been married 12 years, 2 children. In general I'm usually fairly happy, though there are things that are less than ideal that I've had to compromise on or deal with eg he is not social at all and doesn't like going out. So I do that alone/with friends.
An argument that rears its head again and again is this:
He says I am overly critical and contrary. So whatever he says, I take the opposite stance or raise the opposite end of the debate. He says I do this to put him down and treat him like a child.
I say there are several reasons for this -

1. He is incredibly negative a lot of the time and I simply can't agree with him that everything's so terrible.
2. We disagree about some things (perhaps a lot) and I don't see anything wrong with saying what I think.
3. I like to consider all sides of an argument and so will raise the other angle often - even if it's not my opinion, I'm just musing out loud.

He says I'm controlling and dictatorial about the house because I say no to some things eg chop down a tree. I point out other things around the house that he had decided on/had final word, but these are apparently small things.

This argument comes about because he has been very silent and moody, staying away from me around the house etc. I've been asking what's going on, why aren't we talking etc and he for days has said nothing's wrong. Finally today said I'm so critical/contrary and it makes him not want to talk to me.

Any thoughts?

@artartart you may have struck upon something there..! I need to look at myself.
But yes, @tenlittlecygnets, that's how I see it. The negativity is quite draining.

I can imagine I would have a few unkind thoughts about my DH if he asked me “is that a kind thought”

I have this sometimes with my other half. He is very black and white and it I disagree he will go on full defensive mode and say that I'm calling him stupid. I'm learning when to just leave it and say "that's interesting" and other times when he's more open and we can have a genuine conversation.

With the jogger remark I think my partner would take that as an insult that he doesn't exercise or something. Not the intention but something I could see he could do.

I usually stop and explain what I mean and that it's not a criticism and we move on. He's working on less black and white thinking so it's happening less and less.

@PositiveVibez, yes, that's how I feel.
We do also agree on some big life issues such as education, a lot of politics, parenting style. But I feel that it's only when I don't agree that he notices.

When I see a jogger, I think 'why are you running, there's no point!'". I replied perhaps they think the same about his walking

Why disagree?

It's like you're devaluing his opinion. He doesn't see the point in joggers. If you wanted to be conversational you could have asked why he thought that. Or just, moved on. It's a non-event - it didn't need an argument or discussion.

Do you always feel the need to "win" and for him to be "wrong"?

You could be a lot more neutral about it though, OP. Like "Do you reckon?" or "Why's that then?"

I have an ex who was compelled to play devil's advocate constantly and it was really wearing.

Dh thinks I'm critical, I think he's lazy. He told me I was too critical about his chores and when I asked him how I could get him to do more/better without being critical he winked and said "ah, that would be telling" then laughed.

I know I'm critical, and I'm fine with it. If I actually over-step the mark and upset someone, I'll apologise but generally I find life a lot less confusing and stressful to just say what's on my mind. And dh loves that about me, most of the time

Is your dh feeling particularly vulnerable or depressed?

From my perspective, and from the way you describe it, you are simply being fair and reasonable and open-minded.

From his perspective, maybe you are being argumentative. Perhaps he is looking for you to agree with him from time to time. I've learnt that men need their ego fluffing up a lot, a lot more than women generally, and this means using language like "That's a really great idea, I like it a lot.. what I think is this..." and "Oh wow, I'd not thought of it that way, you've really made me think differently.. but also I think this..."

This is affirming he can do things right, he isn't stupid and inferior, and he is capable of making decisions that you don't always disagree with. Men LOVE that kind of stuff. Especially mine (who I suspect might be a covert narcissist)

I would find it really depressing to hear his comments about something as innocuous as jogging. What sort of reply would be acceptable to him?

@Cloudwatching57 I used to get this all the time from DP. Its wearing and made me constantly check myself as to what i was going to say. I ended up saying nothing all of the time. We split up and although lonely, it was the end for me

My FIL constantly plays devils advocate over everything (even if he holds the same opinion) and it is incredibly infuriating and exhausting to have to counteract it all the time. Some people love a debate, but others are just not like that. I don’t mind the occasional debate, but like with my FIL, having everything you say analysed and counteracted does start to feel belittling and I can only deal with him for a few hours at a time. It’s not unusual for him to leave and me and my DH feelmoody and agitated afterwards.

I understand your point about your DPs negativity though, and do think sometimes this needs to be pulled up on, but maybe you just need to think about the way you put your side to him. Taking the jogger example, you directed it straight back at him, which isn’t necessary, as a pp said maybe asking him why he had that opinion would have been a better way to go and he wouldn’t feel like you are being critical of him.

It sounds like you both need to work on how you communicate, he needs to work on his negativity (I know how grating this is), and at the same time I think you need to pick your debates. Perhaps leave them to times when you genuinely disagree or on a topic you feel strongly about.

Thank you all very much, most enlightening! I will try not to be so argumentative.

Why didn't you just explore why he felt like that about joggers? That would be the most natural response. Your response sounds dismissive as if you just want to cut the conversation or you want to be derogatory.
What about if you said something about someone that you though was perfectly valid such as I don't understand why people like golf for example rather than explore it a friend says we'll they probably don't understand why you like bird watching. I would find that a strange answer.

Just wondering, given the range of responses on here, whether your DH would think they were belittling whereas you seem to be open to the differing points of view.

Fair enough, @quietheart and @BitOfFun - I can see your point. I just thought that maybe mirroring his behaviour to him might make him think, 'hell, yeah, that was nasty/negative, why did I say that?'

But maybe not!!

Why didn't you just explore why he felt like that about joggers? That would be the most natural response. Your response sounds dismissive as if you just want to cut the conversation or you want to be derogatory.

@Ilovetheseventies - I'd assumed that OP was so pissed off with always having to be positive to outweigh her op being negative that she couldn't be arsed to 'explore his feelings' about jogging!! But I could be wrong...

Was it nasty or negative though? That sounds to me that you presumed he was being critical of the jogger, but that's not inevitably the case. It's not like he said "She'll never shift that fat arse jogging", isn't it? Maybe he feels like you always assume the worst of him.

@BitOfFun there's certainly some truth in that - I assume he's being negative because he often is, he assumes I'm being contrary because I often am, I suppose!

It sounds like you both need a proper sitdown about this all. If you can be as open-minded and reasonable as you sound here, and he doesn't get too defensive, hopefully this is a pattern the two of you can get out of.

Have you got any other examples of how he is?
I run myself but can understand how it does look pretty boring if you don't.

@Ilovetheseventies has a good point there, maybe your example wasn't great and maybe it's his constant negativity that makes you respond the way you do?

You sound as bad as each other, sorry. It sounds like you've got into a cycle of this type of exchange and neither of you know how to stop.

Underlying is probably a broader issue with not understanding or validating the other's viewpoint. Have you ever done the MBTI? Assess both of you and pin point the specific underlying differences, it will help bring it to light so you can act on improving things.

Hehe - yeah my DH is similar. But I guess I’ve learnt not to press too hard if he’s annoyed. I do love him and vice versa, but it’s taken a while for us to get used to not pressing each other’s buttons.

Just accept that he’s cranky like that and hold back on making that extra comment. And when you do and he gets annoyed, apologise and reassure him that you love him.

What do you want from this thread?

1. Validation that your stance and behaviours are correct so you should continue as now?

1. Validation that your stance and behaviours are correct which makes you incompatible so you should consider leaving?

1. An opportunity to explore and improve a dynamic in one part of your RS which is making young both (and no doubt your DC) unhappy.

Well his comment about the higher is odd however your response has turned it into him. Why not say, perhaps they enjoy it, or perhaps they want to be fit

If you always turn it into something about him or what he dies that would annoy me