Help with my ds relationship issues with DH

[justkeepmovingon]

I have a question, is it totally normal for a a 17 year old to not want to talk or share anything with his dad?

We are married two ds but neither feel they can talk to or trust DH with any news, secrets, girlfriends anything really. It's like they have absolutely no desire to engage with him unless they want something?

It's making me feel so sad as my eldest is just venturing into talking with his girlfriend a new relationship but he's sworn me to not tell his dad, he's asked me after lockdown can I drop him to hers and still keep it secret, he said he just can't be arsed with the smug and comments from DH.

Well it is if his father makes 'comments'.

Why are you surprised?

It reads to me that your son doesn’t trust his Dad in all sorts of ways. There also suggests a lack of respect generally between your husband and son. Your husband has an uphill climb to turn his relationship around at this late stage with his son, assuming he sees the need or the desire to want to. This leaves you in the unenviable position of being ‘the meat in the sandwich ’ an awful position to be in, guardian of the secrets or similar.

Can you talk to your husband, he’s missing out on such a special part in his sons life, it’s sad isn’t it. Good luck.

Well, if your H has nothing to offer but smug remarks and unpleasant comments then it's hardly a surprise that your sons don't want to talk to him, is it? I'm a little surprised that this is news to you.

Ultimately it's on your husband to fix this - he's clearly not being a good father. Thing is, he probably hasn't got a clue anything is wrong.

I would say it's perfectly normal not to want to share if their father is an arse about everything. You haven't expanded on the smug comments, but it seems that he can't respond appropriately to his son, and that is why he won't open up to him.

What's your feeling about your dh's behaviour, op?

OK, I may be projecting here, so forgive me if this is way off beam.

When I was a child, I had a very difficult relationship with my father. He had been away a lot in my childhood (military) and was unpredictable, used to shout and hit us (as "discipline") and never had any patience or interest in being around small children. Or slightly older ones. Or teenagers. He didn't really want to spend time with us, or have any idea about how we felt, problems we were having, the anxieties and triumphs of childhood, etc He just wasn't that fussed about us as people.

By the time I was 17, I would no more have confided in him than I would have shown my diary to the girls who bullied me. It made my mother very sad that we weren't close, but that was just baffling to me - whys was this a surprise? We'd never been "close". He'd never given any indication of being interested in me.

She is kind of the type to passively use her "sadness" as lever to get what she wants without her having to suggest a solution or take action. So she is "sad" I'm not closer to my dad, and I'm expected to go along with that and pretend everything's fine. Rather than him, y'know, examining his actions, apologising and changing.

So I would say :
A) it is on your husband to bridge this gap with his son. It was his job to build a bond of trust with his son, which he had failed to do.
B) don't use the fact that you are sad as a way to manipulate your son into behaving the way you want.

It’s clearly your DH’s fault. You need to challenge him and his stupid smug comments. I really don’t blame your so sons

Yes it is normal for a 17yo to not share information with people who are smug commenting arses with any info shared.

No it is not normal for a father to be a smug commenting arse to his children when they share information.

You reap what you sow.

How sad to have failed as a father so much your son doesn’t want to interact with you... what smug comments is he prone to making ?

what’s your opinion on your husband’s character ? Is a dickhead with you too ? Is he someone you feel comfortable confiding in?

Oh blimey - does your DH love a bit of 'banter'!!!????

he said he just can't be arsed with the smug and comments from DH.

That's the problem then, isn't it? The problem is your arsehole husband.

Like others, I didn’t tell my dad anything. He was unpleasant and there was nothing to be gained by having a conversation.

My mum understood the problem, but said she wasn’t prepared to keep secrets from her husband, so I stopped sharing things with dm too. I left as soon as I could and never went back.

Be careful how you handle this. If your son shares something with you in confidence, then you need to respect that trust.

If your dh hasn’t earned their trust after 17 years, it isn’t ever going to happen.

Sorry, it’s an uncomfortable situation for you.

Of course it's normal not to want to let someone into your personal life if you know their response is going to be 'smug' - I assume that translates as - he's patronising, puts them down, makes fun?

But you know that already of course.

Hand wringing won't get you anywhere. This is your H's problem, sounds like he richly deserves it. And as others have said - I wouldn't pull the sad faces at your sons. They're being perfectly reasonable, so don't atttempt to cheerlead for your 'smug' H unless you want them to draw away from you too.

So @justkeepmovingon are you your husband's abuse enabler? Your post is all about whether your son is reasonable when clearly it is your husband who is unreasonable.

Clearly if you've tried to stop him being a dick to the children you have failed. What are you going to do about that? Blame the children some more?

It is pretty normal for 17 year olds to keep some things from their parents, yes. Childhood/adolescence is one long process of becoming less dependent on one's parents. Part of this is establishing one's own identity as a separate individual and it is very normal for a teen to have aspects of their life that they keep from their parents.

All that said, it sounds like this is 99% your DH's making. At 17 it may well be too late for them to have the kind of trusting confidence you'd like them to have. Does your DH care, or has he not noticed?

he said he just can't be arsed with the smug and comments from DH

As PP's said, the problem is your DH's response if they tell him anything, not your DS' behaviour, which is in response to how he acts.

Once people have this it often doesn't change. If it's going to your DH needs to really change how he interacts with your kids, even about relatively everyday things. He needs to seem supportive etc.

At 43, I still don't tell my dad much stuff, but once she left him when I was 18, my mum became emotionally supportive, so it gradually mended my relationship with her to some extent. While they were married she used to do nothing or laugh when my dad talked to me any which way, so I resented her for quite a while.

Plus, a lot of people don't tell their dads (or even mums) stuff- it's not the worst thing in the world as long as they get on in other ways.

If your dh is a nasty arsehole to him, then yeah he isn't going to want to chat much to him. It's not brain surgery is it? Not much you can do about it except support your son and be there for him.

Is your DH a dick to them?

So sorry I vanished there and you all took time out to respond.

My DH will talk and engage with my DS but only on a very basic level like chatting about a project they are working on or playing on computer games.

He just doesn't understand any kind of emotional bond or that they may need him in that way, I've spoken to my own mum as this has reminded me of how my own father was growing up.

His smugness and comments are hard to explain but say I told him about my sons girlfriend, I just know that he wouldnt respect my sons feelings and would mimic and banter and ask questions that make my son feel uncomfortable, so it's easier I guess to keep the secret.

I've told my DH again and again to knock before going in my eldests room and he will literally knock and just walk straight in, when I call him on it he always says " I was just hoovering" or "I was just putting his clothes in" there is just this sense of him snooping that my DS just feels he hasn't got his own safe personal space.

I've talked to DH I've told him outright he needs to Gain trust, learn time be understanding, give them space.

But it's just going in one ear and out the other.

I'm on the relationship boards as well and this aspect of him is causing me to be very protective of my DS and want to potentially move them away, but they do get on with him on a surface level.

Sorry that's a whole pile of more talk but I'll reply as well individual.

@CodenameVillanelle on occasions yes he can be a dick

@TorkTorkBam that's the thing I'm fully aware of the dynamic and it not being right and looking at how I can support my DS.

I'm not blaming him for not trusting my DH I was curious as to whether this is a normal dynamic for fathers and sons during the teenage years to find themselves emotionally at odds?

So I can talk a view on having a sit down and another serious talk to DH about why his DS won't trust him ever if he keeps being all "funny and jokey" and stupid smug stuff when they need him.

Sounds normal for a son with a father like that.

@pointythings I know what you mean totally, I think it's come as a surprise to me as this is the first time my DS has asked me to keep something specifically secret from DH.

Being girlfriend related, so I'm in a new space and asking if it's normal.

I'm getting the impression it's not and sons would normally talk to their Dads about girls and it would be more in the open. It's just really made me question DHs role in their lives.

Why don't you get your sons some locks for their doors? It's wrong of your DH to not allow them privacy.

This can’t be a new thing?

I can see this happening to my DH and the dcs to be honest. Since lockdown I can now see it for what it is as we are home together more. But basically is incapable of that emotional empathy so responds with snippy comments, he doesn’t take their worries and concerns seriously. He doesn’t naturally offer comfort but it’s like he can’t see that they need it at times.

Anyway I digress. OP I think you probably know this isn’t right and you cannot fix it. That’s your DH’s job.